Viable Nephite colonies (part two)

[notHagoth7]

Cicero - cont'd

"For nearly two millennia every educated European and American read Cicero." (Carl Richard)

"Modern republicans deduced from Cicero's theory of natural law the concept of natural rights, which forms the basis of those bills of rights that distinguish democratic nations from the rest of the world." (Carl Richard)

Cicero was "the name, not of a man, but of eloquence itself." (Quintilian)

Cicero was the "winner of a greater laurel wreath than that of any [military] triumph, it being a greater thing to

have advanced so far the frontiers of the Roman genius than those of the Roman Empire." (Julius Caesar)

"I am stopping here. Come here, soldier. There is nothing proper about what you are doing, but at least make sure you cut off my head properly..." (Cicero's final words - 43 BC.)

Cicero "was a master of words, my boy. A master of words and a lover of his country." (Augustus Caesar - who acquiesced to Cicero's murder)

Plato "constructed a state which was desirable rather than feasible. It was the smallest he could contrive, and though not actually possible, it enabled the reader to see how politics worked. I, however, if I can manage it, while using the same principles as he deduced, will try to show them operating, not in a shadowy country of the mind, but in a very great nation. In doing so, I shall touch, as though with a pointer, on the cause of every good and every evil in public life." (Cicero)

"That is why, though monarchy is, in my view, much the most desirable of the three primary forms [of gov't], monarchy is itself surpassed by an even and judicious blend of the three simple forms" of government. (Cicero)

[A blend of the various strengths of monarchy, democracy, and oligarchy - which the three branches of a constitutional, democratic republic provide.]

[LeSellers]

Cicero - cont'd

"For nearly two millennia every educated European and American read Cicero." (Carl Richard)

And the vast majority read him in Latin.

Impossible with government-run, tax-funded schools precisely because government does not want an educated populace. (If it did, we;d have one.)

Lehi

[notHagoth7]

Impossible with government-run, tax-funded schools precisely because government does not want an educated populace. (If it did, we;d have one.)

As one who is seriously considering home schooling, is there much curriculum out there in the private sector that encompasses Cicero?

Or has he largely been lost in the shuffle during the last few generations?

[LeSellers]

(I'll assume you meant Latin.)

AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGH!

Obviously.

As one who is seriously considering home schooling, is there much curriculum out there in the private sector that encompasses Cicero?

Or has he largely been lost in the shuffle during the last few generations?

I consider my $20 investment in A Thomas Jefferson Education as more valuable than my Masters.

It's available directly from the bookstore at The George Wythe College or from http://www.lovetolearn.net/

I believe the second (or third) edition is slightly more expensive, but still well worth it.

Lehi

[notHagoth7]

The meaning of Tiro

While ramping up on a technology I plan to leverage in the next few days, someone mentioned that they were a "tiro" to that technology.

It reminded me that, in this forum, I haven't mentioned the significance of the meaning of that term.

(Although I did mention it in the book.)

For those of you who haven't read that chapter, "tiro" is a term that gets used more in Europe than it does on this side of the puddle.

Tiro simply means newbie. Greenhorn. Newcomer.

(The term had the same meaning in ancient Rome.)

So when a young new slave emerges in Cicero's writings in 54 BC with that name, what does it suggest?

Furthermore, according to Julius Caesar's own account, it was recent migrations of newcomers into northern Europe which provided his pretense to invade the region in 58 BC - presumably to restore stability in a region that was of strategic importance to Rome's national security. (Sound familiar?)

And Professor Malcolm Todd suggests in a similar vein that such tribal conflict in the Nordwestblock (northwestern Germania) is what led the next generation of Roman generals deeper into northern Europe.

So in addition Tiro's apparent chain of custody from northern Europe through Cicero's brother Quintus, young Tiro's very name also suggests that he was a newcomer. In that context, if critics are also right that elements of Tiro's shorthand system strongly resemble characters in the Anthon Manuscript, what then?

Tironian Script vs. Anthon Manuscript

Now perhaps these scribal similarities are all coincidences.

But perhaps they imply something much more significant.

Arc asked in an earlier thread: "Where did Joseph Smith obtain these characters?"

Since Joseph already answered that question, a more pertinent question might be, from where did Europe obtain the newcomer Tiro, his shorthand system, his characters, and his knack for being a muse** to Cicero's budding political/philosophical writings? (The seafaring Shield, the seafaring Hadgoth, the seafaring Vanir, and the seafaring proto-Lombards suggest an answer....go west young man, go west.)

** For those unclear about the meaning of muse, from the world of wiki: "The Muses...in Greek mythology, poetry, and literature are the goddesses or spirits who inspire the creation of literature and the arts. They were considered the source of the knowledge..."

1) Even critics of the LDS faith note the similarities between the Anthon characters and Tironian.

2) Tiro = newcomer (new arrival).

3) Julius Caesar's conquest of Gaul/Belgium used newcomers settling the region as the pretense for military action.

4) Some of those he encountered had names which meant "settlers", "crossed over", etc.

5) Anglo-Saxon, Danish/Nordic, Gothic,and Lombard origin accounts all claim to have reached the European mainland by ship.

6) Several of those origin accounts (Anglo-Saxon, Gothic, Lombard) mention the significance of ocean currents in their migration accounts.

7) Cicero claimed the newcomer Tiro was the muse (source/inspiration) of his political/philisophical writings.

I posit that the most inclusive and comprehensive explanation for Tiro, his writing system, European origin accounts, and the ripple effect of Cicero's writings is that Tiro was a Nephite.

Just as Joseph had served Egypt.

And Daniel had served Babylon.

Thoughts?

[Heartleap]

I hope everyone has had an awesome Christmas.

There are a few things I've been wanting to expand upon from the previous Nephite colonies thread.

1) Extensive nautical knowledge of Atlantic ocean currents long before the Age of Discovery

2) Cicero & Tiro - and their extensive impact on the shaping of western civilization

3) Nephite society/gov't mirrored in ancient Europe

I'll get to those three items in a bit.

For now, I've also added a private poll - (myself and other participants cannot see your choices.)

If you followed the previous thread, please feel free to participate in the poll.

So it wont let me vote. If it would let me vote, why do you have to put words in my mouth by making me vote to call you beyond decieved? It really is not my attitude toward the LDS. I answered both Questions and it tells me I need to answer both questions.

Heartleap...

[notHagoth7]

So it wont let me vote.

The poll stopped working for some reason - so I deleted the poll today since it was just clogging up visual real estate. (I saved the data if anyone is interested later.)

[notHagoth7]

So it wont let me vote.

I am interested in your input - if you're ok providing it here.

[notHagoth7]

In light of the neighboring thread: In need of convincing LDS Scholarship...evidence of ancient history...

Am I the only one who finds it...bizarre...that critics of the Book of Mormon are the ones who initially posited the apparent correlation between the Anthon Characters and ancient Tironian. In other words, that correlation itself is evidence that the Anthon characters may very well contain ancient shorthand.

Yet critics also claim there is no ancient evidence to suggest that Nephites ever existed....

[Chaos]

Problems with board features will have to be sent directly to Nemesis.

[notHagoth7]

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