Heart of the Matter w/ Shawn McCraney

[WalkerW]

I called in the other night to McCraney's anti-Mormon show "Heart of the Matter" and talked briefly about the Divine Council. I have the story and links here if anyone is interested.

[Scottie]

Nice job! I listened to it.

I still maintain that no matter which particular doctrine a religion holds, there are scriptures which support and other scriptures which condemn that belief. I'm not surprised that the Council of Gods has verses which clearly support it and others which clearly oppose it.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Good Job.

[WalkerW]

Thank you.

Any feedback? How do you think McCraney reacted? Should I have pressed more to cite my sources? I treaded lightly because I didn't want him to just hang up on me.

[handys003]

Thank you.

Any feedback? How do you think McCraney reacted? Should I have pressed more to cite my sources? I treaded lightly because I didn't want him to just hang up on me.

You do realize guys like that are just going to blow off your resources don't you? Your already an brainwashed idiot in his mind. Anyway kudos for your effort. Does his brodcast reach D/FW on TV or is it strictly radio?

[LifeOnaPlate]

I like this part:

First, having read the scripture in depth, Old and New, I believe what we have is right.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Nice job! I listened to it.

I still maintain that no matter which particular doctrine a religion holds, there are scriptures which support and other scriptures which condemn that belief. I'm not surprised that the Council of Gods has verses which clearly support it and others which clearly oppose it.

Some that "clearly oppose it" don't clearly oppose it, though.

[LifeOnaPlate]

You did a good job staying respectful. It's funny how McCraney reacts when faced with info he is not familiar with.

Here's my review of Shawn's terrible book:

http://www.lifeongoldplates.com/2009/06/shawn-mccraneys-i-was-born-again-mormon.html

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Thank you.

Any feedback? How do you think McCraney reacted? Should I have pressed more to cite my sources? I treaded lightly because I didn't want him to just hang up on me.

I thought you did as good as you could have. He actually seemed to be a smidge threatened. (That might not be the right word) He definitaly was out of his league. And he totally tried to rationalize his poition. He just about dismissed what ever you were claiming ouf of hand.

[MormonMason]

Some that "clearly oppose it" don't clearly oppose it, though.

I second that. I do especially since a trip to the original-language text usually solves the "problem" in a heartbeat. In other cases, earlier versions of the text solves the alleged problem.

[MormonMason]

I called in the other night to McCraney's anti-Mormon show "Heart of the Matter" and talked briefly about the Divine Council. I have the story and links here if anyone is interested.

I have to say, Shawn does not appear to know that the current Hebrew Deuteronomy is a rewrite of an older one that does mention plural gods worshipping the God of Israel and a number of them by which number the nations were divided.

Cases in point are Deuteronomy 32:8-9 and 32:43, as found in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

The older belief was replaced by a more strict monotheism that older texts do not evidence.

He'll just ignore your evidence, though...

[WalkerW]

You do realize guys like that are just going to blow off your resources don't you? Your already an brainwashed idiot in his mind. Anyway kudos for your effort. Does his brodcast reach D/FW on TV or is it strictly radio?

It only airs in Utah and Idaho as far as i know. I watched it online. I only did it because I got challenged in a debate to (and for fun). Now I can say I have.

[WalkerW]

I have to say, Shawn does not appear to know that the current Hebrew Deuteronomy is a rewrite of an older one that does mention plural gods worshipping the God of Israel and a number of them by which number the nations were divided.

Cases in point are Deuteronomy 32:8-9 and 32:43, as found in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

The older belief was replaced by a more strict monotheism that older texts do not evidence.

He'll just ignore your evidence, though...

I wrote a letter to a local pastor for the Church of Christ that went over the Divine Council. I go over Deuteronomy 32:

Deuteronomy 32 has also sparked the interest of modern scholarship. In the KJV, vs. 8-9 says, "When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel. For the Lord

[WalkerW]

You did a good job staying respectful. It's funny how McCraney reacts when faced with info he is not familiar with.

Here's my review of Shawn's terrible book:

http://www.lifeongol...ain-mormon.html

I've read a good portion of your review before. "Terrible" is an excellent adjective.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I wrote a letter to a local pastor for the Church of Christ that went over the Divine Council. I go over Deuteronomy 32:

I also go over Psalms 82, Deutero-Isaiah, etc. It was a 15 page letter. All of it can be found here.

Good times, I am going to use this in a current thread.

[Scottie]

Some that "clearly oppose it" don't clearly oppose it, though.

Very true. Sometimes the scriptures only support or oppose a view if you take it in a certain context, re-define words and such.

[Scottie]

What I find interesting about McCraney is how he has a constant smirk on his face like he's humoring a little child explaining first grade math in contrast to the calculus that he knows.

I watched the rest of the show and I thought he did a great job explaining the differences between the LDS Jesus and the EV Jesus.

[WalkerW]

What I find interesting about McCraney is how he has a constant smirk on his face like he's humoring a little child explaining first grade math in contrast to the calculus that he knows.

I know. I watched the video afterwards and was thinking, "What is he smirking about? He was stumbling all over the place."

[handys003]

What I find interesting about McCraney is how he has a constant smirk on his face like he's humoring a little child explaining first grade math in contrast to the calculus that he knows.

I watched the rest of the show and I thought he did a great job explaining the differences between the LDS Jesus and the EV Jesus.

You know it looks as if he has a Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Symptoms could include:

• Lacks Empathy

• Illusions

• Delusions of Grandeur

• Sensitive to Criticism

• Attention Seeking Behavior

• Disregard For Others

• Self-Aggrandisement

• Victimizing Others

• Inflated Self Opinion

• Self-Referential Character

[Palador]

You know it looks as if he has a Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Symptoms could include:

• Lacks Empathy

• Illusions

• Delusions of Grandeur

• Sensitive to Criticism

• Attention Seeking Behavior

• Disregard For Others

• Self-Aggrandisement

• Victimizing Others

• Inflated Self Opinion

• Self-Referential Character

It seems rather ironic to me that his biggest gripe with the Church, as a whole, is his perception of pride in the Church.

[Calm]

You know it looks as if he has a Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

It is inappropriate to analyze someone like this based on just one context of his or her life. He may be quite different in other aspects of his life, requiring a different interpretation of his behaviour.

[Olavarria]

Nice job! I listened to it.

I still maintain that no matter which particular doctrine a religion holds, there are scriptures which support and other scriptures which condemn that belief. I'm not surprised that the Council of Gods has verses which clearly support it and others which clearly oppose it.

I thnk thats cuz different biblical authors had different views.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I called in the other night to McCraney's anti-Mormon show "Heart of the Matter" and talked briefly about the Divine Council. I have the story and links here if anyone is interested.

Good Job, Brother. However let me translate for Shawn

[WalkerW]

I was curious if Shawn McCraney had ever gotten around to reading the information I provided him on the Divine Council. I shot him an email to see if he had. Here is his response in its entirety:

You should have watched the show, Walker.

I called Dallas Theological and had a great conversation with some men

who reviewed your paper and along with me, found it a great stretch to

use the passages cited to justify Smith's views on the ontology of

God. Perhaps more importantly, you are in complete denial of so many

things that are unquestionably fallacious (POGP! to mention one of

hundreds) that one would have to ask what Joseph's dabbling around

with concepts that have been dabbled around for thousands of years by

Christian scholars would mean in light of all his other doctrinal

deceptions?

Most importantly, Walker, you are not a man I trust. You have a blog

and seek to promote yourself and your own under-appreciated

"intelligence" by having selective discussions with people - and then to

report them verbatim - without the other participants knowledge. I

mean, you even went so far as to quote your own wife who supposedly said

I was "nervous or shaken" (or something like that) when I was talking

with you on the air! A-freaking-amazing! Did you get her to tell you

she thinks you look more manly too?

I am not an apologist, Walk. I am a guy who was LDS, is now Christian,

and who shoots straight. You are not. Even worse, you are unfair. And

even worse, you are insecure. Why on earth would I ever want to talk

with you about ANYTHING?

Later.

I was personally a little surprised with this email. I'm not sure why. I don't know exactly what I was expecting. But I take what I can get. The majority of it didn't have anything to do with the information I sent him. But I wanted to post the email in its entirety before giving my responses that I emailed to him. They are as follows:

Seeing that this is the only part that deals with what I originally discussed, I will respond seriously:

"I called Dallas Theological..."

Who did you review it with? Do you have notes from what they said? Do you have an email from them? Without specifics I can't really respond. And I'm not really up for just taking your word for it.

"...complete denial..."

Shawn, you can see right through me. The only reason I brought up the scholarship-supported idea of a divine council in ancient Israel is to distract from the self-evident fraud that the POGP is. You caught me.

"You have a blog..."

The cat is out of the bag. The wicked truth is that I'm on special assignment from Salt Lake to promote myself on the Internet and brainwash all 5 readers of my blog. With such a large following as this, I will be in a position to host my own TV show. This powerful position will allow me to help the LDS Church usher in the New World Order, hand-in-hand with the Masons.

Congratulations: you've just uncovered the greatest conspiracy theory known to man.

"...quote your own wife who supposedly said..."

Once again, you are as sharp as a tack! I don't even have a wife. I just say I do to fill the empty hole in my heart caused by a life of strict Mormon living (knowing it is a total lie from the get go) and sexual repression. But I hope to receive 30 virgins in the afterlife.

"You are not."

You are so right, Shawn. I'm as crooked as a question mark. I got into the apologist business because we make loads of cash off of the tithes of duped members.

"Even worse, you are unfair."

Well, we all know that Mormons are liars, crooks, cheats, charlatans, & Satanic (or so I've been told). What makes you think they would be fair?

"And even worse, you are insecure."

I know it. My blog helps a little. But when I get my own TV show, I'm sure I won't feel that way anymore.

"Why on earth would I ever want to talk with you about ANYTHING?"

I haven't the slightest clue. It couldn't possibly be to learn anything. Well, it has been fun. I've got more people to brainwash. They won't know what hit them!!

P.S. This will go on my blog. Just so you know.

Well, folks, now you know: You are all being brainwashed. (evil laugh)

http://walkstar.blog...rikes-back.html

http://walkstar.blog...-of-matter.html

[bluebell]

Kind of shot himself in the foot with that email, didn't he?

Still, it's kind of entertaining to see how he handles disagreement-which seems to be that he can't handle it at all.