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What must I do to be saved?


mrmendoza

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I asked you this, "Q. Have you done enough to merit God saving you, individual salvation?"

You sasid, "Yup, now what?"

Q How do you know that you have done enough to merit God saving you?

DLC

All that was required that I have faith and that I did my best . I have done that. Now what?

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All that was required that I have faith and that I did my best . I have done that. Now what?

Q. How do you know that you have done your best? "Have done" is past tense. Are you doing your best today and will you do your best in the future? What about your attitude? Have you ever broken one of God's commandments? We all have. James 2:10 shows us that it is impossible to do are best all of the time. By your admission of doing your best you condemn yourself. Eph 2:8-9 say that we boast in our doings and that diqualifies us. No amount of good works could ever qualify us for heaven. Man has already tried a work oriented system of salvation. It is called The Law. They failed and so have you with your works for salvation. How do you know that you have done your best?

DLC

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Q. How do you know that you have done your best? "Have done" is past tense. Are you doing your best today and will you do your best in the future? What about your attitude? Have you ever broken one of God's commandments? We all have. James 2:10 shows us that it is impossible to do are best all of the time. By your admission of doing your best you condemn yourself. Eph 2:8-9 say that we boast in our doings and that diqualifies us. No amount of good works could ever qualify us for heaven. Man has already tried a work oriented system of salvation. It is called The Law. They failed and so have you with your works for salvation. How do you know that you have done your best?

DLC

How do you know you have enough faith? You just know. Are you saying that I can't know now?

One can't be saved yet until they have endured to the end. But I have that faith and that hope that Christ will keep his word.

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Q. How do you know that you have done your best? "Have done" is past tense. Are you doing your best today and will you do your best in the future? What about your attitude? Have you ever broken one of God's commandments? We all have. James 2:10 shows us that it is impossible to do are best all of the time. By your admission of doing your best you condemn yourself. Eph 2:8-9 say that we boast in our doings and that diqualifies us. No amount of good works could ever qualify us for heaven. Man has already tried a work oriented system of salvation. It is called The Law. They failed and so have you with your works for salvation. How do you know that you have done your best?

DLC

It was a Law of Moses, not just "the law" get it right. Also the Law of Moses still required faith to live it.

We are required to have faith and works, if we lack the works are faith is dead and cannot save us. DLClark it is not the LDS position that our works save us in and of themsleves. Stop mis-represnting my beliefs. Any more than our faith saves us. It is the Grace of God that saves us but he has set out certain criteria that we must meet to have grace. Grace is not free. If grace was free all would be saved. Since all will not be saved that tells me that there is a condition upon grace. Grace is freely given to those that qualify for it. Even your theology teaches that we must believe Christ to be saved. That belief is a condition for grace. You believe that you can confess Jesus and go your merry way and sin all you want, because after all you can't live the commandment so why try? How was that for a mis-represntation.

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Strange. I've never found sbc doctrine not addressing an issue.

Are those doctrinal questions?

To my list you can also add, "Why did a loving God create the devil?" (Or Lucifer, whom He knew from the begining that he would become the devil!) And "Why does he allow so much evil in the world?"

These questions are, or at least were not for me, not found in the doctrine of the SBC! When I went to my preacher and sought help for these issues, all I got was "You've got to have faith!" and "Some things, we're just not meant to know"! I don't care whether or not you think these issues are actual "doctrine", they are important enough to merit meaningful answers, and I found them in the LDS Church! And I've heard nothing from you, Dl, or anyone else anywhere that has even remotely caused me to question what I have now!

I'm glad you are serving Him the best you can. I am ashamed and embarrassed that your experience with the sbc has led, at least in part, you to change Jesus, the head of the catholic church, into something He is not.

Thank you, and you should be embarassed that I had to go somewhere else other then the SBC to find the "real" Jesus!

Mike

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What I find interesting is that what you require are answers that satisfy you, as opposed to Truth.

To my list you can also add, "Why did a loving God create the devil?" (Or Lucifer, whom He knew from the begining that he would become the devil!) And "Why does he allow so much evil in the world?"

I agree that these are valid, important questions

These questions are, or at least were not for me, not found in the doctrine of the SBC!

They are not, at least specifically. However, within sbc doctrine is you avenue for answers. The Bible is the inspired inerrant word of God.

When I went to my preacher and sought help for these issues, all I got was "You've got to have faith!" and "Some things, we're just not meant to know"!

That's a shame. On them/him. And it exposes a severe difficulty among many prot denominations. But that does not change the fact that you have exchanged Truth for error. You are not absolved of responsibility just because a) you were not satisfied with the answers cool.gif they were incapable of giving you answers.

I don't care whether or not you think these issues are actual "doctrine",

Of course not. But I can only respond to what you write, not necessarily what you meant. You wrote doctrine.

they are important enough to merit meaningful answers,

I agree.

and I found them in the LDS Church!

If any answer will do, then I'm sure you could have found them somewhere else as well.

And I've heard nothing from you, Dl, or anyone else anywhere that has even remotely caused me to question what I have now!

Such is the circumstance when one exchanges Truth for error. Error is always more palatable.

Thank you, and you should be embarassed that I had to go somewhere else other then the SBC to find the "real" Jesus!

I am embarrased that they did not have the answers you sought. You do not have the real Jesus. You have exchanged Truth for error.

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Such is the circumstance when one exchanges Truth for error. Error is always more palatable.

Well, you know, that's not really so! By the time I found the LDS Church, I considered myself quite comfotable. I'd pretty much given up on finding any real answers and/ or even looking for them! If my brother hadn't joined the church I doubt that I would ever have taken the trouble to find out more about it. As I saw it back then, there was either no God to worry about or since I'd been saved before I didn't need to worry anyway! Joining the LDS, or any church that required you to actually change your life was the furtherest thing from my mind! My wife, who never liked my brother anyway, was opposed to it because she didn't want me to start becoming like him! The error I was living then was in many was much easier then the changes I made after Joining the Church. I drank a lot back then, I was told later by a "reformed alcoholic" that from what I told him of my drinking habits that I was a "borderline" alcoholic. Whenever my wife and I went over to her family's for a getogether we all got drunk , played poker and at least once, almost did some things which I can't say here, for the which I'm thankful that we didn't!

To make a long story short, many of the changes we both made were very difficult and caused tension in the family between us and them that lasted for many years. Now I will say this, if I had gone back to being a Baptist, it would have probably caused just as many problems, but whether I had found what you consider truth or what I ultimatly have come to see as being truth, it would have been much easier for me to have stayed in error!

Mike

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The Mormon doctrine of the Law of Eternal Progression disqualifies the Mormon Jesus from being the Jesus of the Bible. Jesus, as Momons teach, was a spirit being who became a man through God the Father having sex with Mary. Your Jesus was a man who became a god. The Mormon Jesus was never the one through whom all thing that ever were created came into being by him. So, your Jesus is a demi-god. Why do you worship Jesus instead of God the Father who created him? Why then stop with god the father. Why not worship his father or his fathers father? If you go back far enough, with the Law of Eternal Progression, you find the first cause of everything and that is the Jesus of the Bible. John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:15-16.

DLC

DLC,

You were CFR'ed on this (see post 107) and you haven't provided the reference. Either provide a reference or retract the statement!

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DLC,

You were CFR'ed on this (see post 107) and you haven't provided the reference. Either provide a reference or retract the statement!

T

Then you tell me what the Law of Eternal Progression says? I know what you guys believe because I lived in Utah and whent to a Mormon church for awhile untile I heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ, salvation by faith alone in Christ alone, Eph 2;8-9, and was saved. Mormons are polytheists. The only Mormons who deny polytheism as those who are not honest and are trying to avoid the issue. Tell me what the doctrine of eternal progression means. If you are honest you will admit polytheism and not try to talk you way out of it.

DLC

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T

Then you tell me what the Law of Eternal Progression says? I know what you guys believe because I lived in Utah and whent to a Mormon church for awhile untile I heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ, salvation by faith alone in Christ alone, Eph 2;8-9, and was saved. Mormons are polytheists. The only Mormons who deny polytheism as those who are not honest and are trying to avoid the issue. Tell me what the doctrine of eternal progression means. If you are honest you will admit polytheism and not try to talk you way out of it.

DLC

That is not a reference. Either provide a reference supporting your claim "Momons teach, was a spirit being who became a man through God the Father having sex with Mary.", retract your statement, or go away.

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T

Then you tell me what the Law of Eternal Progression says? I know what you guys believe because I lived in Utah and whent to a Mormon church for awhile untile I heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ, salvation by faith alone in Christ alone, Eph 2;8-9, and was saved. Mormons are polytheists. The only Mormons who deny polytheism as those who are not honest and are trying to avoid the issue. Tell me what the doctrine of eternal progression means. If you are honest you will admit polytheism and not try to talk you way out of it.

DLC

/yawn.

Provider a reference or leave. I don't care what you think you know about the LDS, so far you have demonstarted that you even know what you are talking about.

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That is not a reference. Either provide a reference supporting your claim "Momons teach, was a spirit being who became a man through God the Father having sex with Mary.", retract your statement, or go away.

D&C 20:28 Supports the trinity concept.Th bible has never said that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy spirit are one in opurpose. They are the same One, True , Living, Creator God.

T of P.J.S., pp. 370, 373 Also see MD., p. 577 to find out that God the Father of Jesus christ has a Father.

Polytheism and Mormonism J of D, vol. 6, p.4. belief in many gods.J of D vol 2. p. 345 Orson Pratt said that there are more gods thatn there particles of matter.

Orson Prat , in the Seer, Washington, D.C.., 1854, p. 132 support the doctrine of the law of eternal progression which every Mormon is to recite.

God is an exaulted man. Times and Seasons, vol. 5, pp. 613-614.

Mormons use to teach that there is only one God but their doctrine changed. I can give you more references to this change if you like.

Book of Moses 2:1,3, 10,25; 3:8 teaches one God created the earth.

Book of Abraham more than one God created the earth. Abrah. 3:15; 4:3, 10,25; 5:8.

J of D vol 7. p 333 God the Father is an exaulted man.

J of D vol 5 p. 19 says that same thing.

How man more references do you need, there are many more if you would like. Mormons may not admit it but you are polytheists.

DLC

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D&C 20:28 Supports the trinity concept.Th bible has never said that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy spirit are one in opurpose. They are the same One, True , Living, Creator God.

T of P.J.S., pp. 370, 373 Also see MD., p. 577 to find out that God the Father of Jesus christ has a Father.

Polytheism and Mormonism J of D, vol. 6, p.4. belief in many gods.J of D vol 2. p. 345 Orson Pratt said that there are more gods thatn there particles of matter.

Orson Prat , in the Seer, Washington, D.C.., 1854, p. 132 support the doctrine of the law of eternal progression which every Mormon is to recite.

God is an exaulted man. Times and Seasons, vol. 5, pp. 613-614.

Mormons use to teach that there is only one God but their doctrine changed. I can give you more references to this change if you like.

Book of Moses 2:1,3, 10,25; 3:8 teaches one God created the earth.

Book of Abraham more than one God created the earth. Abrah. 3:15; 4:3, 10,25; 5:8.

J of D vol 7. p 333 God the Father is an exaulted man.

J of D vol 5 p. 19 says that same thing.

How man more references do you need, there are many more if you would like. Mormons may not admit it but you are polytheists.

DLC

Still dodging the CFR I see. Do you even understand what you are being questioned on?

"Momons teach, was a spirit being who became a man through God the Father having sex with Mary."

You are Non-responsive. Either provide a reference, retract your statement with an admission that you posted it ignorantly, or just leave!

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D&C 20:28 Supports the trinity concept.Th bible has never said that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy spirit are one in opurpose. They are the same One, True , Living, Creator God.

DLC

The bible also never says they are one substance or one being either.

But I do beg to differ that Christ wanted us to all be one even as his Father and him are one. Never heard a good rebuttle to John 17.

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The bible also never says they are one substance or one being either.

But I do beg to differ that Christ wanted us to all be one even as his Father and him are one. Never heard a good rebuttle to John 17.

You could never be more wrong. The Bible clearly teaches that there is only One, True, Living, Eternal, Creator, God. Isa 44:6

6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

KJV

Isa 48:12-13

12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.KJV

Now if the One, True, Creator, God of the Bible is "The First and The Last," how many Gods are there?

DLC

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You could never be more wrong. The Bible clearly teaches that there is only One, True, Living, Eternal, Creator, God. Isa 44:6

6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

KJV

Isa 48:12-13

12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.KJV

Now if the One, True, Creator, God of the Bible is "The First and The Last," how many Gods are there?

DLC

Your wrong.

No. your wrong.

No no no , your wrong.

This is pointless. Thanks for a giant non answer.

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Here's somethimh that I just remembered but I don't recall seeing it mentioned yet. For those of you who believe that works are not necessary, what about this:

Revelation 3:14-16

14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Two things there, one I just noticed in vers 14 where it says:

These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Does this not imply that Jesus was the first creation, or maybe in otherwords His Firstborn!

I think the next 2 verses speak for themselves!

Mike

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Here's somethimh that I just remembered but I don't recall seeing it mentioned yet. For those of you who believe that works are not necessary, what about this:

Two things there, one I just noticed in vers 14 where it says:

Does this not imply that Jesus was the first creation, or maybe in otherwords His Firstborn!

I think the next 2 verses speak for themselves!

Mike

There you go again, doing that personal Bible study thing. Don't you know that you are not supposed to do that. You are supposed to find some "Christian" pastor that says what you like hearing and believe what he says.

Edited to add. Besides, don't you know that that verse doesn't mean what it says!

Sarcasm/off

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Your wrong.

No. your wrong.

No no no , your wrong.

This is pointless. Thanks for a giant non answer.

If the True God of the Bible says that He is the first and the last then there cannot be any other God/gods because He is before them and after all so call gods. Also, the God of the Bible sys that He knows of no other God other than Him. So how many God/gods are there if the God of the Bible says He knows of no other God?

Isa 45:21

Who has announced this from of old?

Who has long since declared it?

Is it not I, the LORD?

And there is no other God besides Me,

NASU

Isa 44:8

s there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

KJV

There is only One, True, Living, Eternal, Creator, God of the Bible.

He says that faith alone in Him saves. Word are the fruit of faith. They do not produce faith. Saving faith is a gift to us from God, Eph 2:8-9. Both, salvation and saving faith are gifts to us from God.

DLC

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If the True God of the Bible says that He is the first and the last then there cannot be any other God/gods because He is before them and after all so call gods. Also, the God of the Bible sys that He knows of no other God other than Him. So how many God/gods are there if the God of the Bible says He knows of no other God?

Isa 45:21

Who has announced this from of old?

Who has long since declared it?

Is it not I, the LORD?

And there is no other God besides Me,

NASU

Isa 44:8

s there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

KJV

There is only One, True, Living, Eternal, Creator, God of the Bible.

He says that faith alone in Him saves. Word are the fruit of faith. They do not produce faith. Saving faith is a gift to us from God, Eph 2:8-9. Both, salvation and saving faith are gifts to us from God.

DLC

Jesus Christ states He has a God. If the Lord Jesus Christ says in Isaiah that He does not know of any God besides Himself, then who is this God that He speaks of? Jesus made it clear that He is not God the Father. Are you saying He does not know His own Father?

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Pssssst. Look at the Hebrew.

bubrub.gif

What about the Hebrew? The English translation brings out the point that the Hebrews is making. There are not other Gods/god but the God of the Bible who has declared Himself to us. The Lord God of the Bible is arguing for His uniqueness, one of a kind. He does this by challenging anyone to tell of the past and the future. Only The One True God of the knows the past full and the future completely. He challenges any so-called god to predict the future as He does, especially with regards to the antient people, Israel. He , The One, True, Living, Creator, God of the Bible does not know of any other genuine ROCK (A symble for God's unmovable strength) how then could Israel or mankind know of any other God. There is no other God. Isa 44:6-8

6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.

8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

KJV

You Can't argue with truth.

DLC

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