David Bokovoy Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 So I had to start a new thread, since I didn't want to pollute this really fun observation with that unmentionable football team.So as a reader, I really love the way that Lehi uses the historical exilic experience of temporal captivity as an introduction to his theological conviction concerning a Messiah/redeemer who delivers Israel from a perpetual state of spiritual captivity. Whether or not the BofM is true, it really is a beautiful literary technique. In my estimation, Lehi Link to comment
WalkerW Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 So I had to start a new thread, since I didn't want to pollute this really fun observation with that unmentionable football team.So as a reader, I really love the way that Lehi uses the historical exilic experience of temporal captivity as an introduction to his theological conviction concerning a Messiah/redeemer who delivers Israel from a perpetual state of spiritual captivity. Whether or not the BofM is true, it really is a beautiful literary technique. In my estimation, Lehi Link to comment
David Bokovoy Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 RadI think it really is rad! But it's 2:00 AM, and I'm going to bed. Would love to take comments, criticisms, and/or questions on the morrow, but indeed, rad it is! Link to comment
WalkerW Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I think it really is rad! But it's 2:00 AM, and I'm going to bed. Would love to take comments, criticisms, and/or questions on the morrow, but indeed, rad it is!I think that is all I can contribute at the time. Thanks for the insight. Link to comment
handys003 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Why don't you write to Elder Holland and give him this story? I'm sure he'd love to read it. Link to comment
Olavarria Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I miss your insights DB. Link to comment
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Thank You for that. Link to comment
David Bokovoy Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 Why don't you write to Elder Holland and give him this story? I'm sure he'd love to read it.Hey thanks for thinking the insight is of some value. Still, the reality is that Elder Holland wants us to take the Book of Mormon more seriously for spiritual growth, not to discover Hebraisms. As a result of my long time interests, that's simply what happens every time I sit down to study the book seriously. In my estimation, the discovery of a possible Hebraism such as this is simply a lot of fun, but carries no immediate spiritual value. It doesn't even prove the Book of Mormon true. In the end, I love the book for the way it teaches about Christ and the way I feel when I apply its message. What's so wonderful about this work is that even if Joseph somehow wrote it himself, no one could take away from that spirit and the powerful impact the Book of Mormon has had on the lives of millions of its readers. best,--DB Link to comment
David Bokovoy Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 I miss your insights DB.Hey thanks Brother. I'll try and keep focused. best,--DB Link to comment
Alf O'Mega Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 So as a reader, I really love the way that Lehi uses the historical exilic experience of temporal captivity as an introduction to his theological conviction concerning a Messiah/redeemer who delivers Israel from a perpetual state of spiritual captivity. Whether or not the BofM is true, it really is a beautiful literary technique. In my estimation, Lehi Link to comment
krose Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 ... imitating... biblical language will often produce Hebraisms naturally...I believe this is the key point. It does not seem at all surprising. Link to comment
David Bokovoy Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 Dear Alf,How idiomatically would the following read if it were rendered in biblical Hebrew?I admire and appreciate the modesty with which you share this insight. Since you seem to be disclaiming (or at least de-emphasizing) any evidentiary value to your observation, perhaps I'd be out of order to question whether the Hebraism is necessarily authentically ancient. My sense (uninformed by any actual study of biblical Hebrew) is that imitating translated biblical language will often produce Hebraisms naturally (as above, I'm guessing).The John Greenhow statement you Link to comment
Daniel Peterson Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Good stuff, David. Link to comment
Alf O'Mega Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 The John Greenhow statement you Link to comment
David Bokovoy Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 So more like this?I take "scatter'd remnants" as echoing verses like Jeremiah 40:15, Ezekiel 5:10, and Ezekiel 6:8. Any glh hits there?Yet of course an Link to comment
mfbukowski Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Good stuff, David.Good stuff indeed!Hey Dr. P-- are you speaking at Claremont on Thursday? I seem to remember you were going to, but now I can find no reference to it at the site. Was I imagining it? Link to comment
mfbukowski Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Good stuff, David.VERY good stuff!Hey Dr. P- are you speaking at Claremont on Thursday? I thought you were, but now I see no mention of it on the site.http://rsc.cgu.edu/cmssa/ Link to comment
Daniel Peterson Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Good stuff indeed!Hey Dr. P-- are you speaking at Claremont on Thursday? I seem to remember you were going to, but now I can find no reference to it at the site. Was I imagining it?Gosh. I certainly hope not. Because I've got obligations up here on Thursday, and no plans to be in California then.I think I'm now scheduled to speak at Claremont on 11 March. Link to comment
Maidservant Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Does the uncover/captive idea also relate (not in this chapter, but in general throughout scriptural teaching) with the cover/atonement idea? Which is found (cover/atonement), in my understanding, in some Mosaic Law rituals as well as in the Adam and Eve initiation (=Genesis)? Link to comment
John D the First Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Hi David, Thanks for this. It was nice to include 1 Nephi 10 in my scripture study this morning and look for this pattern. A quick question, isn't Isaiah 40 considered a Duetero-Isaiah chapter? If so, how do you explain Lehi being able to quote from it? Best, John Link to comment
mfbukowski Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Gosh. I certainly hope not. Because I've got obligations up here on Thursday, and no plans to be in California then.I think I'm now scheduled to speak at Claremont on 11 March.I am probably just confused as usual-- I suppose it got into my calender incorrectly. Link to comment
mfbukowski Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Does the uncover/captive idea also relate (not in this chapter, but in general throughout scriptural teaching) with the cover/atonement idea? Which is found (cover/atonement), in my understanding, in some Mosaic Law rituals as well as in the Adam and Eve initiation (=Genesis)?Dang. Where do you keep getting these great ideas?David- what do you think?Edit: Notably I guess in the Greek for "Was made flesh and dwelt amongst us" - "tented amongst us" -- Putting on flesh etc-- Link to comment
David Bokovoy Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Does the uncover/captive idea also relate (not in this chapter, but in general throughout scriptural teaching) with the cover/atonement idea? Which is found (cover/atonement), in my understanding, in some Mosaic Law rituals as well as in the Adam and Eve initiation (=Genesis)?Hello Maidservant,It's a nice question, but no, they are two separate roots. best,--DB Link to comment
David Bokovoy Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Hi David, Thanks for this. It was nice to include 1 Nephi 10 in my scripture study this morning and look for this pattern. A quick question, isn't Isaiah 40 considered a Duetero-Isaiah chapter? If so, how do you explain Lehi being able to quote from it? Best, JohnHi John,Indeed, Isaiah 40 marks the start of the Deutero-Isaiah section from the book which derives from an exilic author. I'm afraid that I don't have a good answer yet for this issue and in my mind, it is the greatest challenge the Book of Mormon faces in terms of its historicity. best,--DB Link to comment
Olavarria Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 DBIf we had the plates in our hands and were able to read the writings out loud, what do you think it would sound like? Some form of Hebrew? Link to comment
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