Stages of Communication from the Godhead

[mercyngrace]

Earlier today in response to some discussion about revelation and spiritual experiences, member "Changed" posted the following:

Stages of communication from the Godhead:

1. conscience

CONSCIENCE. See also Light, Light of Christ

The inner sense of right and wrong, coming from the Light of Christ in all men (Moro. 7:16). We are born with a natural capacity to distinguish between right and wrong because of the Light of Christ that is given to every person (D&C 84:46). This faculty is called conscience. The possession of it makes us responsible beings. Like other faculties, our consciences may be deadened through sin or misuse.

(Guide to the Scriptures | C Conscience.:Entry)

Read "Mere Christianity" by C.s.Lewis if you think your conscience is due to herd instincts.

http://www.philosoph...e.com/mctoc.htm

2. Holy Spirit (with different levels, from warmth, to power, to audible words spoken (I have experienced that one once - look up the phrase "fear not" in the scriptures, fear is often the first reaction to this)

3. ministering angels

4. Jesus

5. Heavenly Father

This makes a lot of sense to me as it seems to sort of follow the stages of progression:

(1) The conscience being available to everyone in the world - Babylon.

(2) The Spirit being available to those who have entered the waters of baptism - telestial world.

(3) Ministering Angels - representing entrance into the terrestrial world/temple worthiness. (This reminded me of the BY quote about the knowledge of the endowment allowing us to pass by the angelswho stand as sentinels...)

(4) Communion with Christ representing worthiness to the terrestrial world.

(5) And of course, a visitation from God the Father being the confirmation that you are worthy to abide celestial glory.

As I had never thought of divine communication in this kind of systematic way, I am wondering if anyone else has heard of this idea and knows where it comes from. Is there any indication in scripture or the words of modern prophets that indicates such a progression of divine communion?

[notHagoth7]

...As I had never thought of divine communication in this kind of systematic way, I am wondering if anyone else has heard of this idea and knows where it comes from. Is there any indication in scripture or the words of modern prophets that indicates such a progression of divine communion?

You might also want to review Joseph's comments on the "economy of heaven." (TPJS)

[rockslider]

level 5 may be one that does not typically happen in mortality

[mercyngrace]

level 5 may be one that does not typically happen in mortality

No - and if recorded acccounts present a pattern, this happens in a joint appearance with the Savior. Is there an instance where the Father appears alone?

[mercyngrace]

You might also want to review Joseph's comments on the "economy of heaven." (TPJS)

Can you narrow it down for me? "Economy" isn't in the index and the only quote that is coming to mind is from HOC (?) about the economy of heaven being that God won't reveal anything to anyone outside the individual's stewardship (paraphrase)

Other hits:

The economy of heaven in to gather in all, and to save everybody who can be saved. B.Young

In the economy of heaven, God does not send thunder if a still, small voice is enough, or a prophet if a priest can do the job. N. Maxwell

Edit: okay found this quote which I alluded to above...

I will inform you that it is contrary to the economy of God for any member of the Church, or any one, to receive instruction for those in authority, higher than themselves; therefore you will see the impropriety of giving heed to them; but if any person have a vision or a visitation from a heavenly messenger, it must be for his own benefit and instruction; for the fundamental principles, government, and doctrine of the Church are vested in the keys of the kingdom.

But I'm not sure how that ties into the OP since the OP refers to personal revelation not receiving instruction for the church.

[rockslider]

I will inform you that it is contrary to the economy of God for any member of the Church, or any one, to receive instruction for those in authority, higher than themselves;

I've wondered about this a time or two.

Things like FAIR or this BOARD. If they are doing the work of the Lord, they must fall under an ecclesiastical chain of command somehow, right? I saw something linked on MDB that indicated that it revealed the why/how of the FAIR/MAD split ... but the link to HUGE thread, which was hard to followed lost me.

Did part of the FAIR/MAD split have anything to do with this concept?

[mercyngrace]

Things like FAIR or this BOARD. If they are doing the work of the Lord, they must fall under an ecclesiastical chain of command somehow, right? I saw something linked on MDB that indicated that it revealed the why/how of the FAIR/MAD split ... but the link to HUGE thread, which was hard to followed lost me.

Did part of the FAIR/MAD split have anything to do with this concept?

I don't know why any apologists would be governed by priesthood leadership. Plenty of people do the work of the Lord every day outside of the church's direction. Every time you set an example, bear your testimony, or act out of love you are potentially bringing souls to Christ.

Ecclesiastical authority only comes into play if one speaks prophetically "Thus sayeth the Lord" fashion or performs ordinances.

[mfbukowski]

No - and if recorded acccounts present a pattern, this happens in a joint appearance with the Savior. Is there an instance where the Father appears alone?

Don't want to go into it too much, but think of the last part of the endowment.

[mercyngrace]

Don't want to go into it too much, but think of the last part of the endowment.

If you are talking about the VERY end before entering the celestial room, the phrasing is "with the Lord".

[mfbukowski]

If you are talking about the VERY end before entering the celestial room, the phrasing is "with the Lord".

No it's not. Trust me. One of the people represents Eloheim. Talk to a temple worker next time you are there. I don't think we need to take it farther.

[mercyngrace]

No it's not. Trust me. One of the people represents Eloheim. Talk to a temple worker next time you are there. I don't think we need to take it farther.

Okay - I know what you are talking about. DOH! I was running down the words in my mind and kept coming back to a different part. This is what I get for hanging out so much in initiatory. LOL!

Conversation dropped ;-)

[mfbukowski]

Conversation dropped ;-)

Not a bad place to be either!

[rockslider]

Are you guys talking about the Patriarch? I'm all confused

edit, i.e. wives and sons

[stux]

(1) The conscience being available to everyone in the world - Babylon.

(2) The Spirit being available to those who have entered the waters of baptism - telestial world.

(3) Ministering Angels - representing entrance into the terrestrial world/temple worthiness. (This reminded me of the BY quote about the knowledge of the endowment allowing us to pass by the angelswho stand as sentinels...)

(4) Communion with Christ representing worthiness to the terrestrial world.

(5) And of course, a visitation from God the Father being the confirmation that you are worthy to abide celestial glory.

I have heard it described in a similar way. Personally I would change the list up a bit.

Roughly it would resemble this

(1) The light of Christ (or conscience) comes to all who enter the world

(2) The power of the Holy Ghost. The witness of Truth

(3) The gift of the Holy Ghost. Confirming of truth and the companionship of the Holy Ghost

( I put ministering of angels in here as well, I like to think of "angels speak by the power

of the Holy Ghost" reference )

(4) The second comforter. Communion with Christ, The general assembly of the firstborn and the Father

I remember reading a talk given by Marion G. Romney where he speaks of three phases of the light of Christ

1. the light that enlightens every man

2. The gift of the Holy Ghost

3. the more sure word of prophecy

[mfbukowski]

Are you guys talking about the Patriarch? I'm all confused

edit, i.e. wives and sons

Not sure if you're talking to me---

I was saying stage 5 is symbolically rendered in the temple, but trying not to be very explicit.

[notHagoth7]

Can you narrow it down for me? "Economy" isn't in the index and the only quote that is coming to mind is from HOC (?) about the economy of heaven being that God won't reveal anything to anyone outside the individual's stewardship (paraphrase)

Actually, the economy I recall is along a different line of thought - but I don't want to paraphrase - would rather cite. (A web search didn't provide a valid hit.) If I find the citation, I'll let you know.

[mercyngrace]

Actually, the economy I recall is along a different line of thought - but I don't want to paraphrase - would rather cite. (A web search didn't provide a valid hit.) If I find the citation, I'll let you know.

Thanks - I skimmed through the book last night trying to find but my copy is like a worn set of scriptures. I've marked up so much on the pages, it's hard to see anything but the markings ;-) I also foud Teachings online and ctrl-f didn't turn up the word "economy" other than as I already suggested.

mfbukowski,

I have been thinking and rethinking about what you suggested and am still not sure that we are seeing the same thing. The words at the end are explicitly referencing the Lord. Discussed with my dad and my dear friend, both presently temple workers who are in agreement.

Further, I believe scriptures to be decisive about the fact that we cannot enter the presence of God other than through Christ's intercession. No man cometh unto the Father except by me, etc... I cannot find any recorded visitation that includes God the Father but excludes Christ.

Would love to sit in the temple sometime and chat ;-) If you're ever on the East coast...

MnG

[rockslider]

mfbukowski,

I have been thinking and rethinking about what you suggested and am still not sure that we are seeing the same thing. The words at the end are explicitly referencing the Lord. Discussed with my dad and my dear friend, both presently temple workers who are in agreement.

I got in a bit mess with Elder Tingy, a relative of a ward member that he sealed in the SLC Temple over this very issue .... Christ is not personally involved at this point ... think young couples just being married and what they do.

[mercyngrace]

I got in a bit mess with Elder Tingy, a relative of a ward member that he sealed in the SLC Temple over this very issue .... Christ is not personally involved at this point ... think young couples just being married and what they do.

Think of Paul's counsel that a husband-wife relationship emulate Christ's relationship with the church. The Christ symbolism is intact.

[Avatar4321]

So basically, the idea is that we go step by step through these different stages until we are back in the presence of the Father?

It makes alot of sense, though Ive never honestly thought about it like this.

[mercyngrace]

So basically, the idea is that we go step by step through these different stages until we are back in the presence of the Father?

It makes alot of sense, though Ive never honestly thought about it like this.

It's interesting, though, isn't it. And His house being a house of order, I can imagine communication being just as orderly a progression as everything else. As was already pointed out, the progression clearly extends beyond the grave.

[Lightbearer]

As I had never thought of divine communication in this kind of systematic way, I am wondering if anyone else has heard of this idea and knows where it comes from. Is there any indication in scripture or the words of modern prophets that indicates such a progression of divine communion?

Well this does sound about right, moreover I have heard that we do receive line upon line in a gradual brightening of the light until the "perfect day." Still all of these can also be more interdependent than the list seems to suggest. Many years ago I remember reading something by Elder McConkie that described the process of gaining a testimony and how the light of Christ was the medium through which the Holy Ghost works to testify of the truth and that after membership in the kingdom the Gift of the Holy Ghost is available through that same medium of communication to those who abide their covenants. The key here I think seems to be that through accepting the lesser light we can become prepared to receive and accept the greater light. I also found the following talk by Elder Oaks that may be of interest in connection with this subject:

(Dallin H. Oaks,