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Was God ever a sinner?


James Banta

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In the San Francisco Chronicle interview,President Hinckley was asked:

Q: There are some significant differences in your beliefs. For instance, don't Mormons believe that God was once a man?

A: I wouldn't say that. There was a little couplet coined, "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become." Now that's more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don't know very much about (San Francisco Chronicle, April 13, 1997. p. 3/Z1).

Most ever "Prophet" before Mr Hinckley took the office was sure about this point..

God the Father was once a man on another planet who "passed the ordeals we are now passing through; he has received an experience, has suffered and enjoyed, and knows all that we know regarding the toils, sufferings, life and death of this mortality" (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, 1997, p. 29).

God Himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. . . . (Teachings of the Presidents: Joseph Smith, 2007, p. 221).

"The Spirit of the Lord rested mightily upon meâ??the eyes of my understanding were opened, and I saw as clear as the sun at noon-day, with wonder and astonishment, the pathway of God and man." Elder Snow expressed this new found understanding in these words: "As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be." Later the Prophet Joseph Smith assured him: "Brother Snow, that is true gospel doctrine, and it is a revelation from God to you. . ." (Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, 1984, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, pp. 151-152)

I rescently asked this question based on this subject:

Are you a sinner, Can you perceive a time when you could be exalted and become as God was when He was first exalted? Can you perceive that you would advance in that exaltation? That you might have the opportunity to organize a world and populate it with your own Spirit children? But Heston you are a sinner that much I have seen you admit!!! So if you grow to that priesthood office of godhood wouldn't the mortals in your "creation" say that once their father in heaven was a sinner? Wouldn't they be right? Therefore in mormon theology isn't it right to believe that the Father was once a sinner?

I never gor ans answer so now I bring this question here.. May I please have an answer? IHS jim

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In the San Francisco Chronicle interview,President Hinckley was asked:

Q: There are some significant differences in your beliefs. For instance, don't Mormons believe that God was once a man?

A: I wouldn't say that. There was a little couplet coined, "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become." Now that's more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don't know very much about (San Francisco Chronicle, April 13, 1997. p. 3/Z1).

Most ever "Prophet" before Mr Hinckley took the office was sure about this point..

God the Father was once a man on another planet who "passed the ordeals we are now passing through; he has received an experience, has suffered and enjoyed, and knows all that we know regarding the toils, sufferings, life and death of this mortality" (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, 1997, p. 29).

God Himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. . . . (Teachings of the Presidents: Joseph Smith, 2007, p. 221).

"The Spirit of the Lord rested mightily upon methe eyes of my understanding were opened, and I saw as clear as the sun at noon-day, with wonder and astonishment, the pathway of God and man." Elder Snow expressed this new found understanding in these words: "As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be." Later the Prophet Joseph Smith assured him: "Brother Snow, that is true gospel doctrine, and it is a revelation from God to you. . ." (Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, 1984, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, pp. 151-152)

I rescently asked this question based on this subject:

Are you a sinner, Can you perceive a time when you could be exalted and become as God was when He was first exalted? Can you perceive that you would advance in that exaltation? That you might have the opportunity to organize a world and populate it with your own Spirit children? But Heston you are a sinner that much I have seen you admit!!! So if you grow to that priesthood office of godhood wouldn't the mortals in your "creation" say that once their father in heaven was a sinner? Wouldn't they be right? Therefore in mormon theology isn't it right to believe that the Father was once a sinner?

I never gor ans answer so now I bring this question here.. May I please have an answer? IHS jim

I am unaware of any thing in our doctrin that says taht God sinned. Did not Jesus live a sinless life yet he was mortal and knew of our pain and suffering? If so then why not the Father?

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Are you a sinner,

No.

Can you perceive a time when you could be exalted and become as God was when He was first exalted?

The Most High Almighty G-d wasn't exalted.

Can you perceive that you would advance in that exaltation?

I can "perceive" just about anything. I was blessed with an imagination and ability to look beyond my own dogmatic fundamentalism.

That you might have the opportunity to organize a world and populate it with your own Spirit children?

If it is G-d's will, I don't believe it would be beyond His power to grant me this ability. Do you?

But Heston you are a sinner that much I have seen you admit!!! So if you grow to that priesthood office of godhood wouldn't the mortals in your "creation" say that once their father in heaven was a sinner?

They might if they were idiots.

Wouldn't they be right?

Nope.

Therefore in mormon theology isn't it right to believe that the Father was once a sinner?

Nope.

I never gor ans answer so now I bring this question here.. May I please have an answer?

Yep.

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In the San Francisco Chronicle interview,President Hinckley was asked:

Q: There are some significant differences in your beliefs. For instance, don't Mormons believe that God was once a man?

A: I wouldn't say that. There was a little couplet coined, "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become." Now that's more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don't know very much about (San Francisco Chronicle, April 13, 1997. p. 3/Z1).

Most ever "Prophet" before Mr Hinckley took the office was sure about this point..

God the Father was once a man on another planet who "passed the ordeals we are now passing through; he has received an experience, has suffered and enjoyed, and knows all that we know regarding the toils, sufferings, life and death of this mortality" (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, 1997, p. 29).

God Himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. . . . (Teachings of the Presidents: Joseph Smith, 2007, p. 221).

"The Spirit of the Lord rested mightily upon meâ??the eyes of my understanding were opened, and I saw as clear as the sun at noon-day, with wonder and astonishment, the pathway of God and man." Elder Snow expressed this new found understanding in these words: "As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be." Later the Prophet Joseph Smith assured him: "Brother Snow, that is true gospel doctrine, and it is a revelation from God to you. . ." (Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, 1984, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, pp. 151-152)

I rescently asked this question based on this subject:

Are you a sinner, Can you perceive a time when you could be exalted and become as God was when He was first exalted? Can you perceive that you would advance in that exaltation? That you might have the opportunity to organize a world and populate it with your own Spirit children? But Heston you are a sinner that much I have seen you admit!!! So if you grow to that priesthood office of godhood wouldn't the mortals in your "creation" say that once their father in heaven was a sinner? Wouldn't they be right? Therefore in mormon theology isn't it right to believe that the Father was once a sinner?

I never gor ans answer so now I bring this question here.. May I please have an answer? IHS jim

God the Father (if indeed a man) as Christ said "All that I do I have seen the Father do". So if this were the case then no he never sinned just as Christ never sinned.

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In the San Francisco Chronicle interview,President Hinckley was asked:

Q: There are some significant differences in your beliefs. For instance, don't Mormons believe that God was once a man?

A: I wouldn't say that. There was a little couplet coined, "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become." Now that's more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don't know very much about (San Francisco Chronicle, April 13, 1997. p. 3/Z1).

Most ever "Prophet" before Mr Hinckley took the office was sure about this point..

God the Father was once a man on another planet who "passed the ordeals we are now passing through; he has received an experience, has suffered and enjoyed, and knows all that we know regarding the toils, sufferings, life and death of this mortality" (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, 1997, p. 29).

God Himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. . . . (Teachings of the Presidents: Joseph Smith, 2007, p. 221).

"The Spirit of the Lord rested mightily upon meâ??the eyes of my understanding were opened, and I saw as clear as the sun at noon-day, with wonder and astonishment, the pathway of God and man." Elder Snow expressed this new found understanding in these words: "As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be." Later the Prophet Joseph Smith assured him: "Brother Snow, that is true gospel doctrine, and it is a revelation from God to you. . ." (Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, 1984, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, pp. 151-152)

We are washed clean in the blood of the Lamb.

What God has made clean no man can declare

unclean.

Bernard

I rescently asked this question based on this subject:

Are you a sinner, Can you perceive a time when you could be exalted and become as God was when He was first exalted? Can you perceive that you would advance in that exaltation? That you might have the opportunity to organize a world and populate it with your own Spirit children? But Heston you are a sinner that much I have seen you admit!!! So if you grow to that priesthood office of godhood wouldn't the mortals in your "creation" say that once their father in heaven was a sinner? Wouldn't they be right? Therefore in mormon theology isn't it right to believe that the Father was once a sinner?

I never gor ans answer so now I bring this question here.. May I please have an answer? IHS jim

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I rescently asked this question based on this subject:

Are you a sinner, Can you perceive a time when you could be exalted and become as God was when He was first exalted?

Yes and yes.
Can you perceive that you would advance in that exaltation?
Yes
That you might have the opportunity to organize a world and populate it with your own Spirit children?
Yes
But ... you are a sinner that much I have seen you admit!!!
Absolutely, all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. That is why Jesus Christ came to take upon Him the sins of the world of all who will believe and follow Him. Now a question for you, those who have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and repent and endure to the end... are they still sinners? Are they still tainted with sin? Do they really have clean hands and a pure heart? So I am asking is Christ able to purify us of all sin?
So if you grow to that priesthood office of godhood wouldn't the mortals in your "creation" say that once their father in heaven was a sinner? Wouldn't they be right? Therefore in mormon theology isn't it right to believe that the Father was once a sinner?

I never gor ans answer so now I bring this question here.. May I please have an answer? IHS jim

So what? If there was a Christ on the world in which heavenly Father became a God, could he not be cleansed and be without spot? Perhaps you are denying the atoning blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, or perhaps putting Him to open shame? Consider the following:
(1 John 3:1-3) "Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure."
How can we be purified as He is pure if there is any sin or taint of sin remaining in us? The kingdom of God is not filthy and no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of God. This speaks to the very heart and soul of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, is it really the power of God unto salvation? Thou our sins be crimson can they be made as white as the snow? This is really what you are asking, not that God was once a "vile sinner" but can we truly become whole again? I find it amazing that anyone who pretends to be a Christian could ask such a question!
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I dont know if God had ever in his entire existence committed any sin. I do believe that repentance wipes any sin off the slate completely. It does not leave any stain at all if truly repented of.

If God was once a man then as a man He may have sinned and repented. As God, He would be perfect, which means, in part, without sin.

At least one man has never sinned. Perhaps God was like him.

Any opinion offered is just speculation. He hasn't told us so we have no way of knowing.

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So many people get their panties in a wad about this hypothetical. Either repentance, atonement, and forgiveness function as stated in scripture, or they don't. If not, then we're all in trouble. What God has been doing throughout the eternities is pure speculation. Did He live a perfect life like His Son? Maybe; I don't know. Did He ever sin? Who knows--but since repentance, atonement, and forgiveness function as stated in scripture, then what difference does it make?

I don't get it.

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I never gor ans answer so now I bring this question here.. May I please have an answer? IHS jim

Please spare us your transparent duplicity James Banta.

You've had this question answered a thousand times. You know the LDS response as predictably as we know you can't help but regurgitate it ad nauseum.

Your only purpose is to bellow your favorite mormon heresy from the rooftops once again, vainly hoping for it to have the effect you want it to, but never ever does.

This is yours, and every other cranky evangelical anti-mormon's, pet peeve for the past 200 years. This is the lone note on the piano you are capable of playing.

This is where your dialogue begins and ends. It's all so terribly boring.

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Are you a sinner, Can you perceive a time when you could be exalted and become as God was when He was first exalted? Can you perceive that you would advance in that exaltation? That you might have the opportunity to organize a world and populate it with your own Spirit children? But Heston you are a sinner that much I have seen you admit!!! So if you grow to that priesthood office of godhood wouldn't the mortals in your "creation" say that once their father in heaven was a sinner? Wouldn't they be right? Therefore in mormon theology isn't it right to believe that the Father was once a sinner?

Answer: No. A conclusion about Mormon theology or the rightness of one's beliefs cannot be drawn from a line of questioning and incomplete analysis that reflects ignorance of so many principles of the Gospel.

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You've had this question answered a thousand times. You know the LDS response as predictably as we know you can't help but regurgitate it ad nauseum.

This is why my sig line there states; "An answer is only an answer, when not given by a Mormon". No matter what anyone answers there (who is LDS) they are told that it was not an answer. One of the prevalent tactics they employ. The other is to discredit any quotes from other apologists.

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Yes and yes.

Yes

Yes

Absolutely, all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. That is why Jesus Christ came to take upon Him the sins of the world of all who will believe and follow Him. Now a question for you, those who have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and repent and endure to the end... are they still sinners? Are they still tainted with sin? Do they really have clean hands and a pure heart? So I am asking is Christ able to purify us of all sin?

So what? If there was a Christ on the world in which heavenly Father became a God, could he not be cleansed and be without spot? Perhaps you are denying the atoning blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, or perhaps putting Him to open shame? Consider the following:How can we be purified as He is pure if there is any sin or taint of sin remaining in us? The kingdom of God is not filthy and no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of God. This speaks to the very heart and soul of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, is it really the power of God unto salvation? Thou our sins be crimson can they be made as white as the snow? This is really what you are asking, not that God was once a "vile sinner" but can we truly become whole again? I find it amazing that anyone who pretends to be a Christian could ask such a question!

Well Put -do you think that our Father in Heaven was perfect

like unto our Savior who was perfect when He ( Our Father ) worked out his salvation?

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In the San Francisco Chronicle interview,President Hinckley was asked:

Q: There are some significant differences in your beliefs. For instance, don't Mormons believe that God was once a man?

A: I wouldn't say that. There was a little couplet coined, "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become." Now that's more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don't know very much about (San Francisco Chronicle, April 13, 1997. p. 3/Z1).

Most ever "Prophet" before Mr Hinckley took the office was sure about this point..

God the Father was once a man on another planet who "passed the ordeals we are now passing through; he has received an experience, has suffered and enjoyed, and knows all that we know regarding the toils, sufferings, life and death of this mortality" (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, 1997, p. 29).

God Himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. . . . (Teachings of the Presidents: Joseph Smith, 2007, p. 221).

"The Spirit of the Lord rested mightily upon meâ??the eyes of my understanding were opened, and I saw as clear as the sun at noon-day, with wonder and astonishment, the pathway of God and man." Elder Snow expressed this new found understanding in these words: "As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be." Later the Prophet Joseph Smith assured him: "Brother Snow, that is true gospel doctrine, and it is a revelation from God to you. . ." (Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, 1984, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, pp. 151-152)

I rescently asked this question based on this subject:

Are you a sinner, Can you perceive a time when you could be exalted and become as God was when He was first exalted? Can you perceive that you would advance in that exaltation? That you might have the opportunity to organize a world and populate it with your own Spirit children? But Heston you are a sinner that much I have seen you admit!!! So if you grow to that priesthood office of godhood wouldn't the mortals in your "creation" say that once their father in heaven was a sinner? Wouldn't they be right? Therefore in mormon theology isn't it right to believe that the Father was once a sinner?

I never gor ans answer so now I bring this question here.. May I please have an answer? IHS jim

Was God the Father once a man?

Yes But no parent has ever yet on this earth been the parent of a spirit,

because we are so far yet from perfection.

Remember what was said a while ago, that "As man is, God once was;

and as God is, man may become."

They came with the definite understanding

that they could return to become like God and go forward

in their great development and progress.

Could you produce a spirit? Has anyone whom you know ever produced a spirit?

This is a power not given to mortal man, so there is much for us to learn...

My brethren, God bless you as we carry forward our lives toward perfection

so that we may attain and receive the blessings that we are promised,

that we may reach godhood eventually and have the blessings

appertaining thereto. Spencer W. Kimball

Ensign, May 1977, 49 Our Great Potential

Was God the Father Perfect as a man?

"These are incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are simple. It is

the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to

know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once

a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as

Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible."

I wish I was in a suitable place to tell it, and that I had the trump of an archangel,

so that I could tell the story in such a manner that persecution would cease for ever.

What did Jesus say? (Mark it, Elder Rigdon!) The Scriptures inform us that Jesus said,

As the Father hath power in Himself, even so hath the Son power -- to do what?

Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious -- in a manner to lay down His body and take it up again.

Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again.

Do we believe it? If you do not believe it, you do not believe the Bible.

The Scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined

powers of earth and hell together to refute it.

What did Jesus do? Why; I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds came rolling into existence.

My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom,

I shall present it to my Father, so that he may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory.

He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take his place, and thereby become exalted myself.

So that Jesus treads in the tracks of his Father, and inherits what God did before;

and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all his children. "

KFD

It appears that JS believed and taught a sinless sacrifice

was given by our Father when he worked out his salvation and an atonement

like unto our Savior.

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Well Put -do you think that our Father in Heaven was perfect

like unto our Savior who was perfect when He ( Our Father ) worked out his salvation?

I do not know. I know what the Prophet Joseph alluded to in the KFD, but that is not necessarily "official doctrine" so I guess the question is open. But either way, if the Father were a "Christ" on His home world, or if he were just a follower of His God and Christ it really does not matter. God has said that if we obey His Gospel we can become exalted like Him.
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I do not know. I know what the Prophet Joseph alluded to in the KFD, but that is not necessarily "official doctrine" so I guess the question is open. But either way, if the Father were a "Christ" on His home world, or if he were just a follower of His God and Christ it really does not matter. God has said that if we obey His Gospel we can become exalted like Him.

That is a good way to look at it cuz of the grand cleansing power of the atonement

and we are of the same species with great potential if we allow God to sanctify us.

I believe that the KFD has some merrit seeing how many Apostles have quoted or illuded

from it's teachings as well as placing it in our curriculum at least in part.

Like that of the gospel principles and priesthood / RS manual.

I think Joesph might have said more about it elsewhere as well as some others.

But do not remember the details.

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I wonder why James quoted 3 past Presidents of the Church out of the 14 before Hinckley, then claimed that "most" Presidents before Hinckley believed the doctrine. I also wonder why James concludes that Hinckely doesn't believe the doctrine, because that much is impossible to conclude from Hinckely's actual words.

I also wonder if James and his buddies will ever find something more interesting to do than to harp on this particular issue day in and day out. The dominance of this subject over at James's home turf (CARM) leads one to believe that they have some sick obsession with it. They haven't advanced the ball in all these years. It is easier to just shout and ridicule.

And finally, I wonder if James would be so kind as to answer some the questions that have been asked of him in this thread, since his questions have been patiently answered.

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So many people get their panties in a wad about this hypothetical. Either repentance, atonement, and forgiveness function as stated in scripture, or they don't. If not, then we're all in trouble. What God has been doing throughout the eternities is pure speculation. Did He live a perfect life like His Son? Maybe; I don't know. Did He ever sin? Who knows--but since repentance, atonement, and forgiveness function as stated in scripture, then what difference does it make?

I don't get it.

If God had to be an ordinary mortal man, and sin, and regenerate then this means that He is a different kind of being than previously supposed.

First, a God who has always been God, who is all knowing, all powerful, everywhere present. past-present-future is necessary for the Atonement to have saving power the negative effects of sin.

Second this is connected to the idea called Transcendence coupled with what has been termed Immanence. God's saving powers rely on Him having these attributes so that His Spirit can regenerate fallen human beings toward perfection.

If God is not the kind of God who has the power to back up human repentance, the Atonement, and can forgive-- causing it to function by His sovern power-- then we are all lost.

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this means that He is a different kind of being than previously supposed.

Doesn't this happen all of the time? All I have to say is "so what". So what we learned something more that we didn't know and now our understanding has changed.

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If God had to be an ordinary mortal man, and sin, and regenerate then this means that He is a different kind of being than previously supposed.

First, a God who has always been God, who is all knowing, all powerful, everywhere present. past-present-future is necessary for the Atonement to have saving power the negative effects of sin.

Second this is connected to the idea called Transcendence coupled with what has been termed Immanence. God's saving powers rely on Him having these attributes so that His Spirit can regenerate fallen human beings toward perfection.

If God is not the kind of God who has the power to back up human repentance, the Atonement, and can forgive-- causing it to function by His sovern power-- then we are all lost.

If God had to be an ordinary mortal man, and sin, and regenerate then this means that He is a different kind of being than previously supposed. Every time someone accepts the Gospel and repents, his understanding of God changes and improves. That said, God did not "have" to be X-Y or Z. He Is. "If" scenarios that entertain anything "He Is Not" have nothing to do with a correct perception of Him and the gift of His Son.

First, a God who has always been God, who is all knowing, all powerful, everywhere present. past-present-future is necessary for the Atonement to have saving power the negative effects of sin. The definition of "always" has a very different meaning where time does not exist than it does for those who are outside eternity and are still looking out, not in.

Second this is connected to the idea called Transcendence coupled with what has been termed Immanence. God's saving powers rely on Him having these attributes so that His Spirit can regenerate fallen human beings toward perfection. Regenerate presumably conveys the process of being "re-born" and / or "resurrected."

If God is not the kind of God who has the power to back up human repentance, the Atonement, and can forgive-- causing it to function by His sovern power-- then we are all lost. But He isn't that kind of God, and all we need is to listen to His still small voice, exercise faith in His Son, repent of our sins, be baptized and receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost, and "endure" to the "end." "Endure" means to become stronger in Christ through grace by receiving and keeping all His covenants, and the "end" is another word for Christ's purpose: our immortality and eternal life. This we become joint-heirs with Christ.

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If God had to be an ordinary mortal man, and sin, and regenerate then this means that He is a different kind of being than previously supposed.

Yes, that is the point of a Restoration.

First, a God who has always been God, who is all knowing, all powerful, everywhere present. past-present-future is necessary for the Atonement to have saving power the negative effects of sin.

You are going to have to provide some evidence for this. God doesn't have to be all-powerful to accomplish the atonement, he simply has to be powerful enough.
Second this is connected to the idea called Transcendence coupled with what has been termed Immanence. God's saving powers rely on Him having these attributes so that His Spirit can regenerate fallen human beings toward perfection.
What does this have to do with his past? Are these attributes (which themselves are subject to debate) incompatible with the idea that at some point in eons past God may have been less than perfect?
If God is not the kind of God who has the power to back up human repentance, the Atonement, and can forgive-- causing it to function by His sovern power-- then we are all lost.

I agree. God must have that power. But I don't understand how the LDS model precludes him from having that power.
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We see clues of God's true nature in the conditions of salvation He offers we humans and the terms that God is represented to us so that we feel secure in His promises.

That is, in Scripture Godâ??s ability to save we humans is connected with Him being God from Everlasting to Everlastingâ??a God who has always been God.

Moroni 7:

22 For behold, God knowing all things, being from everlasting to everlasting, behold, he sent angels to minister unto the children of men, to make manifest concerning the coming of Christ; and in Christ there should come every good thing.

Even in Moroni we humans with our temporal failings have looked to and described God, the Creator God who is Eternal (Always God) to be the hope of fallen man.

Another example is with a broader body of different chapters of Mormon modern scripture called the Doctrine and Covenants.

Doctrine and Covenants (D&C) 20:17& 19 proclaim:

17 By these things we know that there is a God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God, the framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them.

These D&C conditions of viewing God is connected to Covenant promises-- and assurances that God will keep his promise.

Heb 6:13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

Heb 13: 8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Eph 3:

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Our Trust in God has to do with His strict Eternal nature, and Almighty Attributes

Psalm 90& 91

1 Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.

2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

3 Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.

4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

5 Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep: in the morning they are like grass which groweth up.

6 In the morning it flourisheth, and groweth up; in the evening it is cut down, and withereth.

7 For we are consumed by thine anger, and by thy wrath are we troubled.

8 Thou hast set our iniquities before thee, our secret sins in the light of thy countenance.

9 For all our days are passed away in thy wrath: we spend our years as a tale that is told.

10 The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

11 Who knoweth the power of thine anger? even according to thy fear, so is thy wrath.

12 So teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom.

13 Return, O LORD, how long? and let it repent thee concerning thy servants.

14 O satisfy us early with thy mercy; that we may rejoice and be glad all our days.

15 Make us glad according to the days wherein thou hast afflicted us, and the years wherein we have seen evil.

16 Let thy work appear unto thy servants, and thy glory unto their children.

17 And let the beauty of the LORD our God be upon us: and establish thou the work of our hands upon us; yea, the work of our hands establish thou it.

1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

2 I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.

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