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â??Of Faith and Reasonâ?� (Michael Ash)


Bill “Papa” Lee

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While retuning from Utah, I had the opportunity to read (while flying) Michael Ashâ??s new book entitled â??Of Faith and Reasonâ? (80 evidences supporting the Prophet Joseph Smith). I learned a few new things but for the most part was reminded of things which I had forgotten. The book begins with a quote from Ed Decker, the opening line in the Introduction readsâ?¦â?Mormonismâ? writes one LDS-critical author, â??would gain a measure of respectability if only some credible evidence could be found to support at least one of Joseph Smithâ??s claims.â?

I have observed this statement many times by others who say that there is â??zeroâ? evidence to support any of Josephâ??s claims. Anyway I am just wondering if anyone has read it and what comments you may have.

I enjoyed the book very muchâ?¦

How bout you guys? :P

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While retuning from Utah, I had the opportunity to read (while flying) Michael Ashâ??s new book entitled â??Of Faith and Reasonâ? (80 evidences supporting the Prophet Joseph Smith). I learned a few new things but for the most part was reminded of things which I had forgotten. The book begins with a quote from Ed Decker, the opening line in the Introduction readsâ?¦â?Mormonismâ? writes one LDS-critical author, â??would gain a measure of respectability if only some credible evidence could be found to support at least one of Joseph Smithâ??s claims.â?

I have observed this statement many times by others who say that there is â??zeroâ? evidence to support any of Josephâ??s claims. Anyway I am just wondering if anyone has read it and what comments you may have.

I enjoyed the book very muchâ?¦

How bout you guys? :P

"There are none so blind as they who will not see." Anyone who doesn't see the mountains of evidences that prove that Joseph Smith was a true prophet, doesn't see them because they don't want to see them. Why did literally thousands of people accept the Prophet Joseph Smith as a true prophet, even while he was alive, and many of them lived virtually next door to him? I'll tell you why--it was because they saw and heard personally, with their own eyes and ears, daily, weekly, monthly, and yearly, evidences of his prophetic gifts. They were constantly seeing prophecies made and fulfilled almost on a daily basis. People would ask him questions, and he would give them answers that no mortal man could possibly have known but which were later verified. He taught doctrine and explained the meaning of the scriptures in ways that they had never heard from any other source before but which they found spiritually satisfying in ways that no other church could satisfy their hunger for spiritual knowledge and understanding of the scriptures.

In 1829, Joseph had written in the Book of Mormon that there were horses in America anciently. All the scholars laughed their heads off. Anybody with any education at all knew that there were never any horses in America until they were brought here by the Spaniards. Years later, it was discovered that there were, indeed, horses in Ancient America. They may not have been Arabians but they were horses. How did Joseph Smith know that they would someday find evidence that there were horses in America anciently . . . unless he was a true prophet? Lucky guess?

The Book of Mormon had claimed that there were elephants in America. Again, all the scholars laughed their heads off because everyone knew that there had never been any elephants in America anciently. Years later they found evidence that elephants had once lived in America, but scholars claimed that they were not contemporary with man. Then they found the skeleton of an elephant with an arrow head embedded in his shoulder blade, and they had to ask themselves if elephants shot arrows at each other . . . without opposable thumbs? Again, they were not either African or Asian elephants, but they were elephants. And once again, we have to ask, how did Joseph Smith know that unless he was a true prophet? Another lucky guess?

The Book of Mormon had claimed that the ancient Americans had a system of writing, and once more, all the scholars laughed their heads off. Now, of course, we know that the Mayans and the Mixtecs, if not others, had writing systems anciently. And again, we have to ask, how did Joseph Smith know that unless he was a true prophet? Lucky guesses are startin to sound less likely.

Again, the Book of Mormon had claimed that the ancient Americans had chariots, and once again, all the scholars laughed themselves silly, because everyone knew that the ancient Americans did not have the wheel. Now, of course, we know that they had the wheel. What use they may have made of it, scholars today cannot imagine--certainly not chariots. Again, how did Joseph Smith know unless he was a true prophet? Lucky guesses are sounding more and more unlikely.

Then, too, the Book of Mormon had claimed that the ancient Americans had machinery, and all the scholars died laughing because everyone knew that the ancient Americans certainly did not have machinery. I have seen a stone cogwheel with my own eyes. I don't know what it was used for, but it is certainly evidence that machinery was here anciently. How did Joseph Smith know that they had machinery unless he was a true prophet? Lucky guesses are beginning to sound utterly ridiculous.

The Book of Mormon claimed that the ancients had metal, and scholars could not contain themselves because everyone knew that the ancients had no metal. Now we know that they did, and again, the question that demands an answer: how did Joseph Smith know that, when the whole scholarly world did not?

The Book of Mormon claimed that the ancient Americans had cement, and the scholars were beside themselves. Today we know that there is a whole road, thousands of years old, down in South America, that is better than any road you can find in the United States today. How did Joseph Smith know that the ancients had cement unless he was a true prophet of God. Lucky guesses are no longer even a consideration.

The Book of Mormon claimed that the ancients wrote on metal plates, and all the scholars hooted with laughter because the very idea of ancient peoples writing on metal plates was utterly ridiculous. Since then, metal plates with writing on them have been found all over the world.

The Book of Mormon had mentioned a man named Lehi, and all the scholars snickered because any Bible scholar knew that no self-respecting Jew would ever name a child Lehi. Many years later they found that name written on the wall of a cave in Arabia. Joseph Smith was right again!

And then there was the name Nephi--nobody had ever heard of it. This was rich! Now Joseph Smith was just making up names! Now we know that Nephi was an Egyptian name. How did Joseph Smith know that?

We could and have filled volumes with evidences that prove that the Book of Mormon is true and that prove that Joseph Smith was a true prophet, but not everyone has eyes to see or ears to hear, much like the ancient Jews of Jesus' day.

As an FYI to a new poster this is off-topic. The topic is about a book so please discuss the book and what it is the book. Mods

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I've hesitated to purchase this book because I wonder if it is written more for the masses than for us internet buffs. I wonder if I am not already familiar with most of what Ash will write, or if he presents original research. That being said, it would be nice to find the evidence for Joseph's calling in one handy reference book.

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I've hesitated to purchase this book because I wonder if it is written more for the masses than for us internet buffs. I wonder if I am not already familiar with most of what Ash will write, or if he presents original research. That being said, it would be nice to find the evidence for Joseph's calling in one handy reference book.

This is why I bought it.

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I've hesitated to purchase this book because I wonder if it is written more for the masses than for us internet buffs. I wonder if I am not already familiar with most of what Ash will write, or if he presents original research. That being said, it would be nice to find the evidence for Joseph's calling in one handy reference book.

Here is his website where you might be able to get answers. I have the book and have read it and enjoyed it. Of Faith and Reason website

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Anyone who doesn't see the mountains of evidences that prove that Joseph Smith was a true prophet, doesn't see them because they don't want to see them. . . .

In 1829, Joseph had written in the Book of Mormon that there were horses in America anciently. All the scholars laughed their heads off. Anybody with any education at all knew that there were never any horses in America until they were brought here by the Spaniards. Years later, it was discovered that there were, indeed, horses in Ancient America. They may not have been Arabians but they were horses. How did Joseph Smith know that they would someday find evidence that there were horses in America anciently . . . unless he was a true prophet? Lucky guess?

The Book of Mormon had claimed that there were elephants in America. Again, all the scholars laughed their heads off because everyone knew that there had never been any elephants in America anciently. Years later they found evidence that elephants had once lived in America, but scholars claimed that they were not contemporary with man. Then they found the skeleton of an elephant with an arrow head embedded in his shoulder blade, and they had to ask themselves if elephants shot arrows at each other . . . without opposable thumbs? Again, they were not either African or Asian elephants, but they were elephants. And once again, we have to ask, how did Joseph Smith know that unless he was a true prophet? Another lucky guess?

The Book of Mormon had claimed that the ancient Americans had a system of writing, and once more, all the scholars laughed their heads off. Now, of course, we know that the Mayans and the Mixtecs, if not others, had writing systems anciently. And again, we have to ask, how did Joseph Smith know that unless he was a true prophet? Lucky guesses are startin to sound less likely.

Again, the Book of Mormon had claimed that the ancient Americans had chariots, and once again, all the scholars laughed themselves silly, because everyone knew that the ancient Americans did not have the wheel. Now, of course, we know that they had the wheel. What use they may have made of it, scholars today cannot imagine--certainly not chariots. Again, how did Joseph Smith know unless he was a true prophet? Lucky guesses are sounding more and more unlikely.

Then, too, the Book of Mormon had claimed that the ancient Americans had machinery, and all the scholars died laughing because everyone knew that the ancient Americans certainly did not have machinery. I have seen a stone cogwheel with my own eyes. I don't know what it was used for, but it is certainly evidence that machinery was here anciently. How did Joseph Smith know that they had machinery unless he was a true prophet? Lucky guesses are beginning to sound utterly ridiculous.

The Book of Mormon claimed that the ancients had metal, and scholars could not contain themselves because everyone knew that the ancients had no metal. Now we know that they did, and again, the question that demands an answer: how did Joseph Smith know that, when the whole scholarly world did not?

The Book of Mormon claimed that the ancient Americans had cement, and the scholars were beside themselves. Today we know that there is a whole road, thousands of years old, down in South America, that is better than any road you can find in the United States today. How did Joseph Smith know that the ancients had cement unless he was a true prophet of God. Lucky guesses are no longer even a consideration.

The Book of Mormon claimed that the ancients wrote on metal plates, and all the scholars hooted with laughter because the very idea of ancient peoples writing on metal plates was utterly ridiculous. Since then, metal plates with writing on them have been found all over the world.

The Book of Mormon had mentioned a man named Lehi, and all the scholars snickered because any Bible scholar knew that no self-respecting Jew would ever name a child Lehi. Many years later they found that name written on the wall of a cave in Arabia. Joseph Smith was right again!

And then there was the name Nephi--nobody had ever heard of it. This was rich! Now Joseph Smith was just making up names! Now we know that Nephi was an Egyptian name. How did Joseph Smith know that?

How many of these "evidences" appear in Ash's book? Because a lot of them look pretty dubious to me (horses, elephants in ancient America contemporary with human occupation; "Lehi" written on the wall of a cave in Arabia; a cement road in South America "better than any road you can find in the United States today"; scholars didn't think ancient Americans had "metal" etc.).

I'm quite sure that Brother Ash, being the careful apologist he is, would not assemble such a mixture of fact and fiction and declare it "proof" that Joseph Smith was a true prophet.

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I'm quite sure that Brother Ash, being the careful apologist he is, would not assemble such a mixture of fact and fiction and declare it "proof" that Joseph Smith was a true prophet.

Part of the value of Mike's book is that it does deal with more consistent and supportable evidences (though I suspect that I am even more conservative of evidences I accept that Mike is--or lots of other pretty intelligent folk). Unfortunately, part of the apologetic task on the Book of Mormon is not only to put good information out there, but to attempt to counter the not-so-good.

The shotgun approach that pulls anything and everything from anywhere and anywhen really doesn't count as a good apologetics (and doesn't indicate that good apologetic materials really are available).

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