The Ten Biggest Lies About Mormonism

[Hoops22]

General Conference.

I don't recall any changes in doctrine.. why is that necessary for revelation?

Then what is revelation? I don't get it. (pun intended)

[a5m5a5d]

Then what is revelation? I don't get it. (pun intended)

Amos 3:7 "Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."

Continuous revelation from God to his saints makes possible daily guidance along true paths and leads the faithful souls to complete and eternal salvation in the celestial kingdom. It is the making known of divine truth by communication with the heavens, and consists not only of revelation to prophets, but also a confirmation in the hearts of the believers that the revelation to the prophets is true. It also consists of individual guidance for every person who seeks it and folows the course of faith, repentance, and obedience to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

[Joseph Antley]

Capitalizing G I believe refers to Heavenly Father. A lower case g refers to us and the state humans can attain. They are different.

I'm not sure about this. Joseph Smith is "mingling with Gods" (Praise to the Man) with a capital G. In the recording of Joseph's sermon on the plurality of Gods, the G is always capitalized.

[rocmonkey]

Good enough. So what would you consider lies about the LDS? Give me your list.

I have to be very careful here. I've been kicked off before for just stating LDS doctrines that most modern LDS don't know about.

So, what do I consider to be lies about the LDS. Well, let me start off by saying JS said, "When therefore any man, no matter who or how high his standing maybe, utters or publishes anything which afterwards proves to be untrue he is a false prophet." (History of the Church 1:373, ft. nt.)

And, JS did predict Jesus' return on at least 2 occasions (1890 & 1891) and the church leaders did so on a third (1832 to 1932).

So, I'd say, a false prophet (by his own definition of the word).

What do you say to that if it is true (the failed prophecies)?

[a5m5a5d]

Capitalizing G I believe refers to Heavenly Father. A lower case g refers to us and the state humans can attain. They are different.

I disagree.

Luke 6:40 "The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master."

I believe humans can obtain the very state that our Heavenly Father is now in.

[a5m5a5d]

I have to be very careful here. I've been kicked off before for just stating LDS doctrines that most modern LDS don't know about.

So, what do I consider to be lies about the LDS. Well, let me start off by saying JS said, "When therefore any man, no matter who or how high his standing maybe, utters or publishes anything which afterwards proves to be untrue he is a false prophet." (History of the Church 1:373, ft. nt.)

And, JS did predict Jesus' return on at least 2 occasions (1890 & 1891) and the church leaders did so on a third (1832 to 1932).

So, I'd say, a false prophet (by his own definition of the word).

What do you say to that if it is true (the failed prophecies)?

Joseph Smith did not predict Jesus' return.

[JDave]

I have to be very careful here. I've been kicked off before for just stating LDS doctrines that most modern LDS don't know about.

So, what do I consider to be lies about the LDS.

I believe the idea is to state things that people say about Mormonism that is not true with respect to Mormonism

Not to state things within Mormonism that are not true.

[jadams_4242]

Testimonies through the Spirit or Holy Ghost are unreliable, because they rely on feelings of the heart or indecipherable supernatural experiences instead of the written word, which is final.

Wait a minute, did the spirit confirm that to you or did you read it?

[rocmonkey]

Here's a few more "truths"...

1. Book of Abraham

2. Kinderhook Plates

3. Plagiarism

4. Polygamy

5. Emotionality

6. Changing Doctrine

7. False Prophecies

8. Lying for the Lord

9. Treasure Hunt

10. Blood Atonement

11. BOM Changes

12. BOM Population

13. Lamanite DNA

14. Critics Squelched

15. Black Prejudice

16. Nephi or Moroni?

17. Archeology

18. First Vision

Care to explain how any of these can even be questioned if the LDS god is ALL-knowing and ALL-powerful?

[rocmonkey]

Joseph Smith did not predict Jesus' return.

Yes, I'm sorry to say, he did. And, that is just one of the many things he did and said that never happened or came to be. Check out this link for much more. Each and every doctrine stated has clear references to them- I know because I posted them.

http://forums.southernutah.com/showthread....76488#post76488

[rocmonkey]

I believe the idea is to state things that people say about Mormonism that is not true with respect to Mormonism

Not to state things within Mormonism that are not true.

Sorry, my mistake. But, if Mormonism is true the evidence will show it. Can Mormonism stand investigation? Check out the link in the last post to see.

[rocmonkey]

Joseph Smith did not predict Jesus' return.

Would you like to see the entire quote/passage where JS/LDS leaders stated it?

[Doctor Steuss]

Yes, I'm sorry to say, he did.

[...]

Which -- based on his comments regarding Millerâ??s prediction, the comments he made a few years prior, and the same year of his 1835 statement, and the comments he made a few years after -- makes one wonder if Joseph smoked pot, or if he was just an idiot.

Or if maybe, sometimes we want a certain reading/interpretation of a given thing to be something so badly that we fail to see other possibilities.

More importantly, what would Joseph have done for a Klondike bar?

[LifeOnaPlate]

rocmonkey is back? Oh geez.

[rocmonkey]

Which -- based on his comments regarding Millerâ??s prediction, the comments he made a few years prior, and the same year of his 1835 statement, and the comments he made a few years after -- makes one wonder if Joseph smoked pot, or if he was just an idiot.

Or if maybe, sometimes we want a certain reading/interpretation of a given thing to be something so badly that we fail to see other possibilities.

More importantly, what would Joseph have done for a Klondike bar?

Was that a no, don't confuse me with the truth? Or, a "yes, maybe, possibly, I don't know if I want to hear the truth" kind of answer?

I couldn't tell which.

[Doctor Steuss]

Was that a no, don't confuse me with the truth? Or, a "yes, maybe, possibly, I don't know if I want to hear the truth" kind of answer?

I couldn't tell which.

That was a: "Don't worry about taking into account other statements made regarding the same topic both before and after the statement in question and the potential implications of taking them into consideration" answer.

In other words, keep up your good work.

[Joseph Antley]

Was that a no, don't confuse me with the truth? Or, a "yes, maybe, possibly, I don't know if I want to hear the truth" kind of answer?

I couldn't tell which.

Of that "prophecy", here's what Joseph said about it: "I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face".

If Joseph didn't know if it referred to the Second Coming, I don't know why we should trust you on it.

[rocmonkey]

In other words, keep up your good work.

I'll take that as a yes then.

Here is one of them-

"Were I going to prophesy (he is prophesying!), I would say the end [of the world] would not come in 1844, 5, or 6, or in forty years. THERE ARE THOSE OF THE RISING GENERATION WHO SHALL NOT TASTE DEATH TILL CHRIST COMES.

I was once praying earnestly upon this subject and a voice said unto me, "My son if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years of age, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man." I was left to draw my own conclusions concerning this; and I took the liberty to conclude that if I did live to that time, He would make His appearance. But I do not say whether He will make His appearance or I shall go where He is. I prophesy in the name of the Lord God, and let it be written-the Son of Man will not come in the clouds of heaven till I am eighty-five years old. Then read the 14th chapter of Revelations, 6th and 7th verses-"An d I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment is come." And Hosea 6th chapter, After two days, etc.,-2,520 years; which brings it to 1890." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith (TPJS) 286 (in 1843))

So, its obvious that JS is making the point that Jesus will return in 1890. He is leading folks to believe it or trying to convince them of its reality. Remember, JS started out by 'prophesying' and saying,

THERE ARE THOSE OF THE RISING GENERATION WHO SHALL NOT TASTE DEATH TILL CHRIST COMES.

This is in context and JS full statement.

Since everyone, including the LDS, admit Jesus has not returned yet, are there 'any' 164 year old LDS walking around (164 if they were born on that day)? Isn't stating untruths in prophecy called giving a false prophecy? See Deuteronomy 18:20-22 and JS own statement (again) for what constitutes a false prophet.

[LifeOnaPlate]

So much for the New Testament, rocmonkey.

[rocmonkey]

Of that "prophecy", here's what Joseph said about it: "I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face".If Joseph didn't know if it referred to the Second Coming, I don't know why we should trust you on it.

Good point. But, did you miss the fact that he also said "some of the rising generation will see Christ return"? So, did Jesus return during that 'next' generation or not?

So much for the New Testament, rocmonkey.

I'm sorry but I didn't get this. Please explain.

[Hoops22]

Not to state things within Mormonism that are not true.

That'll take another thread!!

[Doctor Steuss]

I know weâ??ve been over this before. As Iâ??m pretty much an agnostic now-a-days, and as weâ??ve talked about this before, I know the following post of mine will ultimately have the impact of a fleaâ??s flatus on you.

I'll take that as a yes then.

Here is one of them-

"Were I going to prophesy (he is prophesying!),

Thus sayeth the rocmonkey.

I would say the end [of the world] would not come in 1844, 5, or 6, or in forty years.

Wait a darn tootinâ?? minute. Does this mean that Joseph made a true prophecy?

THERE ARE THOSE OF THE RISING GENERATION WHO SHALL NOT TASTE DEATH TILL CHRIST COMES.

Pray-tell, how long is a generation when it comes to prophetic language (I would assume that if we are to judge this as a prophecy, which you have emphatically [â??!â?] suggested, that we would not hold it to a standard above that of other prophetic language)? Is it 20 years? 50 years? 90 years? 100 years? Pretending for a moment that the double-standard wonâ??t be in effect, and that the common tenuous wresting of the scriptural passages that utilize similar language is not engaged in, exactly how long of a time period are we to ascribe to this â??rising generationâ??

I was once praying earnestly upon this subject and a voice said unto me, "My son if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years of age, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man." I was left to draw my own conclusions concerning this; and I took the liberty to conclude that if I did live to that time, He would make His appearance. But I do not say whether He will make His appearance or I shall go where He is.

I guess we already know the answer to that one, eh (assuming, which we should if we are evaluating this without preconceived notions of his â??falseness,â? that he didnâ??t go to hell).

I prophesy in the name of the Lord God, and let it be written-the Son of Man will not come in the clouds of heaven till I am eighty-five years old.

And of course, Joseph reached the age, didnâ??t he? Of course, we already know what the ultimate meaning and fulfillment of this prophecy is (assuming we actually read the previous sentenceâ?¦ and speak English).

Then read the 14th chapter of Revelations, 6th and 7th verses-"An d I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment is come." And Hosea 6th chapter, After two days, etc.,-2,520 years; which brings it to 1890." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith (TPJS) 286 (in 1843))

I guess I shouldnâ??t be particularly surprised that you didnâ??t go on to quote the remainder which potentially adds a bit more confusion.

So, its obvious that JS is making the point that Jesus will return in 1890.

It would seem so.

He is leading folks to believe it or trying to convince them of its reality. Remember, JS started out by 'prophesying' and saying,

THERE ARE THOSE OF THE RISING GENERATION WHO SHALL NOT TASTE DEATH TILL CHRIST COMES.

Remember, JS also stated:

BUT I DO NOT SAY WHETHER HE WILL MAKE HIS APPEARANCE OR I SHALL GO TO HIM (I made it in caps to help you read it).

And,

I prophesy in the name of the Lord God, and let it be written-the Son of Man will not come in the clouds of heaven till I am eighty-five years old

This is in context and JS full statement.

Yup. The context is that he didnâ??t know the full meaning of the message he received. And he prophesied that Christ wouldnâ??t come until Joseph was 85. Christ didnâ??t come prior to him turning 85.

Win.

Since everyone, including the LDS, admit Jesus has not returned yet, are there 'any' 164 year old LDS walking around (164 if they were born on that day)?

I wonder if you hold this sort of strict reading to a certain â??generationâ? passage in the Bible?

I imagine not, as it would make Christ a false prophet.

Isn't stating untruths in prophecy called giving a false prophecy? See Deuteronomy 18:20-22 and JS own statement (again) for what constitutes a false prophet.

Indeed. You should probably stop stating untruths about this prophecy. It canâ??t be good for your eternals salvation.

[rocmonkey]

Sure got quiet in here when everyone read what JS actually said in 1843, didn't it?

I'll re-post it in case you missed it.

THERE ARE THOSE OF THE RISING GENERATION WHO SHALL NOT TASTE DEATH TILL CHRIST COMES.

Btw, for lots more about JS and LDS doctrine (with lots of references so you can verify it all for yourself) look at this-

http://forums.southernutah.com/showthread....76488#post76488

[LifeOnaPlate]

I'm sorry but I didn't get this. Please explain.

Don't be sorry. Be consistent. Go read your Bible again.

[Hermes]

Sure got quiet in here when everyone read what JS actually said in 1843, didn't it?

I'll re-post it in case you missed it.

THERE ARE THOSE OF THE RISING GENERATION WHO SHALL NOT TASTE DEATH TILL CHRIST COMES.

Btw, for lots more about JS and LDS doctrine (with lots of references so you can verify it all for yourself) look at this-

http://forums.southernutah.com/showthread....76488#post76488

Looks like you have a forum where you can post proof-texts to your hearts content. have fun there. spamming the board was your mistake. bye~hermes