Jump to content

Lehi Was Condemned For Being A Visionary Man


urroner

Recommended Posts

I'm stuck in my motel room here in DC because it ridiculously cold outside (remember I'm from Florida), and was reading Margaret Barker's "The Lost Prophet", I came across this paragraph on page 52:

In complete contrast we have the teaching of Deuteronomy, which emphasizes very strongly that the Lord was no seen when the Law was given. Deuteronomy 4.12 says that only a voice was heard, cf. Exodus 33.18-23, where Moses asks gto se the glory of God and is told that nobody can see God and live. Now the Deuteronomists played an important part in collecting and transmitting the Old Testament texts, and it would seem that they were opposed to some of the traditions in Isaiah, Ezekiel, Enoch and, later, Revelation. This may mean that the type of Jewish religion in which Christianity had its roots was seen by some Jews as heretical even before the time of Jesus. One of the crucial issues was the vission of God; was it possible, and what did it mean?

Now, maybe I've just off a little bit, but from what I understand, the Deuteronomists were starting to get pretty active during the days of Lehi in Jerusalem and with this in mind, could the thoughts of Leman and Lemuel play any part of this line of thought or am I just grasping at straws?

1 Nephi 2:11

Now this he spake because of the stiffneckedness of Laman and Lemuel; for behold they did murmur in many things against their father, because he was a visionary man, and had led them out of the land of Jerusalem, to leave the land of their inheritance, and their gold, and their silver, and their precious things, to perish in the wilderness. And this they said he had done because of the foolish imaginations of his heart.

I realize that Lehi's wife, Sariah, said something very similar later on, but she was probably in the depths of depression and was saying something to stop the pain.

Link to comment

I'm stuck in my motel room here in DC because it ridiculously cold outside (remember I'm from Florida), and was reading Margaret Barker's "The Lost Prophet", I came across this paragraph on page 52:

Now, maybe I've just off a little bit, but from what I understand, the Deuteronomists were starting to get pretty active during the days of Lehi in Jerusalem and with this in mind, could the thoughts of Leman and Lemuel play any part of this line of thought or am I just grasping at straws?

1 Nephi 2:11

Now this he spake because of the stiffneckedness of Laman and Lemuel; for behold they did murmur in many things against their father, because he was a visionary man, and had led them out of the land of Jerusalem, to leave the land of their inheritance, and their gold, and their silver, and their precious things, to perish in the wilderness. And this they said he had done because of the foolish imaginations of his heart.

I realize that Lehi's wife, Sariah, said something very similar later on, but she was probably in the depths of depression and was saying something to stop the pain.

I have always interpreted that as "foolish dreamer". In other words, he wasn't practical, following the known path of worldly success, but haring off after his non-tangible faith. Despite your reference, I still believe that.

Link to comment

Indeed, many prophets of Lehi's time were not a part of what we might call "official Judaism leaders," they were fringe prophets foretelling doom and preaching repentance.

Barker, Kevin Christensen, and Brant Gardner all argue quite well that Josiah's reform might have played a good part in Lehi preaching against the man, so to speak.

Link to comment

People do not like prophets. They are embarrassing. They are loose cannons, not subject to peer review or control by the priesthood, the scholars, or the political leaders. Consequently the established order always sees prophets as a threat.

Laman and Lemuel very much wanted to be part of the 'in' crowd in Jerusalem, part of the governing order. They saw religion as a sort of corporate ladder, offering wealth, prestige and power. Lehi threatened all that with what appeared to be his mad ravings. Laman and Lemuel no doubt were already being ostracized by people that they wanted to be their patrons, their mentors. And here they were saddled with this mad old guy who was saying that Egypt would not rescue them from Babylon.

This is why prophets have always been killed.

Link to comment

I'm stuck in my motel room here in DC because it ridiculously cold outside (remember I'm from Florida), and was reading Margaret Barker's "The Lost Prophet", I came across this paragraph on page 52:

Now, maybe I've just off a little bit, but from what I understand, the Deuteronomists were starting to get pretty active during the days of Lehi in Jerusalem and with this in mind, could the thoughts of Leman and Lemuel play any part of this line of thought or am I just grasping at straws?

1 Nephi 2:11

Now this he spake because of the stiffneckedness of Laman and Lemuel; for behold they did murmur in many things against their father, because he was a visionary man, and had led them out of the land of Jerusalem, to leave the land of their inheritance, and their gold, and their silver, and their precious things, to perish in the wilderness. And this they said he had done because of the foolish imaginations of his heart.

I realize that Lehi's wife, Sariah, said something very similar later on, but she was probably in the depths of depression and was saying something to stop the pain.

This is very interesting, and it also plays into some thoughts I have had in trying to understand why Laman and Lemuel were so very different in outlook and response than were Sam and Nephi, and later Jacob and Joseph. They had the same parents, and ostensibly the same rearing. But if Josiah's reforms came about while Laman and Lemuel were young and impressionable, and perhaps it took Lehi some time to really come to terms with what was happening, it would explain why Laman and Lemuel had such a decidedly negative outlook on the repentance being preached by dad. It would also explain their insistence that the people of Jerusalem were a "righteous" group.

Link to comment

The content of Lehi's visions 1 Nephi 1 takes me immediately into the Barker's world of First Temple traditions that the reformers were trying to suppress. So, yes, the different valuations of Lehi's status as a "visionary man" fits neatly into Barker's view of the reforms as deliberately suppressing vision. According to Barker, the cheribum throne in the Holy of Holies was a place of vision, whose content matches that of Lehi's in 1 Nephi 1. According to the reformers, the ark was a box with a book containing all the rules you needed to know.

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

Link to comment

The content of Lehi's visions 1 Nephi 1 takes me immediately into the Barker's world of First Temple traditions that the reformers were trying to suppress. So, yes, the different valuations of Lehi's status as a "visionary man" fits neatly into Barker's view of the reforms as deliberately suppressing vision. According to Barker, the cheribum throne in the Holy of Holies was a place of vision, whose content matches that of Lehi's in 1 Nephi 1. According to the reformers, the ark was a box with a book containing all the rules you needed to know.

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

Is the cheribum throne the same as the chariot throne or am I getting things confused? I also realize that there was a chariot in the holy of holies that had something to do with the sun. What is that all about?

Link to comment

The cheribum throne is ark of the covenant. Just another way of referring to the same thing. We don't hear anything more about the ark after the time of the reformers. The reformer accounts describe removing chariots and horses associated with the sun, imagery that returns in Revelation. Margaret has details in "What King Josiah Reformed" in her essay in Glimpses of Lehi's Jerusalem, and in The Great High Priest in various places, and in The Revelation of Jesus Christ. I'm away from my books, and can't be more specific than that at the moment.

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

Link to comment

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...