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Entering The Principle, Neccesary For Exaltation?


Olavarria

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Ok, so my bud asks me if in the next life we have to enter plural marriage in order to be exalted. I said, "I dont have the foggiest idea, but it would be nice. Assuming I make it into the CK that is."

So, whats the deal?

I want quotes, legitamate ones from past and living prophets. No opnions please, unless you are interpreting a quote.

Mods-please do me the favor of blocking any stupid sexual innuendo laden responses

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Ok, so my bud asks me if in the next life we have to enter plural marriage in order to be exalted. I said, "I dont have the foggiest idea, but it would be nice. Assuming I make it into the CK that is."

So, whats the deal?

I want quotes, legitamate ones from past and living prophets. No opnions please, unless you are interpreting a quote.

Mods-please do me the favor of blocking any stupid sexual innuendo laden responses

Doctrines of salvation volume 2-- page 43-44 {Joseph fielding Smith}

{quote}=

"Another thing that we must not forget in this great plan of redemption and exhaltation, is that a man "must" have a wife, and a woman a husband, to receive the fulness of exhaltation. they "must" be sealed for time and and for all eternity in the temple: then their union will last forever, and they cannot be separated because God has joined then together, as he taught the Pharisees."

{church news5-31-1947 page 8}

:P

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Ok, so my bud asks me if in the next life we have to enter plural marriage in order to be exalted. I said, "I dont have the foggiest idea, but it would be nice. Assuming I make it into the CK that is."

So, whats the deal?

I want quotes, legitamate ones from past and living prophets. No opnions please, unless you are interpreting a quote.

Mods-please do me the favor of blocking any stupid sexual innuendo laden responses

What do you mean when you say we may or may not have to "enter" plural marriage?

D&C 132 says something about those who refuse to enter into covenants once they are made aware of available covenants.

Are you asking whether or not someone could be exalted if he/she chose not to enter into certain covenants?

I think that if you didn't, you would be choosing to be damned, or limited, in your own personal progress.

... and perhaps because you personallly chose to limit yourself.

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Ok, so my bud asks me if in the next life we have to enter plural marriage in order to be exalted. I said, "I dont have the foggiest idea, but it would be nice. Assuming I make it into the CK that is."

So, whats the deal?

I want quotes, legitamate ones from past and living prophets. No opnions please, unless you are interpreting a quote.

Mods-please do me the favor of blocking any stupid sexual innuendo laden responses

From Brigham Young:

Now, we as Christians desire to be saved in the kingdom of God. We desire to attain to the possession of all the blessings there are for the most faithful man or people that ever lived upon the face of the earth, even him who is said to be the father of the faithful, Abraham of old. We wish to obtain all that father Abraham obtained. I wish here to say to the Elders of Israel, and to all the members of this Church and kingdom, that it is in the hearts of many of them to wish that the doctrine of polygamy was not taught and practiced by us. It may be hard for many, and especially for the ladies, yet it is no harder for them than it is for the gentlemen. It is the word of the Lord, and I wish to say to you, and all the world, that if you desire with all your hearts to obtain the blessings which Abraham obtained, you will be polygamists at least in your faith, or you will come short of enjoying the salvation and the glory which Abraham has obtained. This is as true as that God lives. You who wish that there were no such thing in existence, if you have in your hearts to say: "We will pass along in the Church without obeying or submitting to it in our faith or believing this order, because, for aught that we know, this community may be broken up yet, and we may have lucrative offices offered to us; we will not, therefore, be polygamists lest we should fail in obtaining some earthly honor, character and office, etc,"-the man that has that in his heart, and will continue to persist in pursuing that policy, will come short of dwelling in the presence of the Father and the Son, in celestial glory. The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy. Others attain unto a glory and may even be permitted to come into the presence of the Father and the Son; but they cannot reign as kings in glory, because they had blessing offered unto them, and they refused to accept them.

There's context involved in the meaning of this passage, so here here's the full sermon:

http://journalofdiscourses.org/Vol_11/refJDvol11-41.html

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From Brigham Young:

Now, we as Christians desire to be saved in the kingdom of God. We desire to attain to the possession of all the blessings there are for the most faithful man or people that ever lived upon the face of the earth, even him who is said to be the father of the faithful, Abraham of old. We wish to obtain all that father Abraham obtained. I wish here to say to the Elders of Israel, and to all the members of this Church and kingdom, that it is in the hearts of many of them to wish that the doctrine of polygamy was not taught and practiced by us. It may be hard for many, and especially for the ladies, yet it is no harder for them than it is for the gentlemen. It is the word of the Lord, and I wish to say to you, and all the world, that if you desire with all your hearts to obtain the blessings which Abraham obtained, you will be polygamists at least in your faith, or you will come short of enjoying the salvation and the glory which Abraham has obtained. This is as true as that God lives. You who wish that there were no such thing in existence, if you have in your hearts to say: "We will pass along in the Church without obeying or submitting to it in our faith or believing this order, because, for aught that we know, this community may be broken up yet, and we may have lucrative offices offered to us; we will not, therefore, be polygamists lest we should fail in obtaining some earthly honor, character and office, etc,"-the man that has that in his heart, and will continue to persist in pursuing that policy, will come short of dwelling in the presence of the Father and the Son, in celestial glory. The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy. Others attain unto a glory and may even be permitted to come into the presence of the Father and the Son; but they cannot reign as kings in glory, because they had blessing offered unto them, and they refused to accept them.

There's context involved in the meaning of this passage, so here here's the full sermon:

http://journalofdiscourses.org/Vol_11/refJDvol11-41.html

Maybe Brigham was having a "Mad at my wife day"? :P

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Maybe Brigham was having a "Mad at my wife day"? <_<

Wouldn't he have disavowed polygamy in that case? :P

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Ok, so my bud asks me if in the next life we have to enter plural marriage in order to be exalted. I said, "I dont have the foggiest idea, but it would be nice. Assuming I make it into the CK that is."

So, whats the deal?

I want quotes, legitamate ones from past and living prophets. No opnions please, unless you are interpreting a quote.

Mods-please do me the favor of blocking any stupid sexual innuendo laden responses

Firstly, on the personal level:

We must remember Genesis which tells us woman was created out of man.

Adam would not have been complete without a woman. A man or a woman is not complete except they are united in Godly marriage.

A person can be saved and glorified in Christ, yet the pair in Godly glory is greater than the unpaired in Christâ??s glory. Salvation as a son or daughter of God does not equal exaltation as a man and woman united in God.

As for the plurality aspect:

God is a polygamist. He loves His creation in Adam, He loves His descendants of accountability in Noah, He loves the inhabitants of the earth who claim a sonship with Abraham (Jews, Christians, and Muslims), and He has â??marriedâ? all the world in Christ. He now builds up His Israel in Christ (the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) as the fifth generation of people born of prophets. And we in the LDS Church who have received and accepted our patriarchal blessing which places us in the next family of progenitors, in the next generation of the birthright passed on to Ephraim and Manasseh the sons of Joseph, are promised to be the creators in God of the seventh generation as Holy Fathers and Holy Mothers in the Priesthood of God and Christ.

So be it,

Zemah

P.S. - As for quotes...I have told you what He has told me. If you read the Word of God in the Spirit of the Holy Ghost, if you believe enough of the Word to seek out the Gift of the Holy Ghost at the hands of His Holy Melchizedek Priesthood, you to will find it and partake of it as Fathers in heaven.

The day will come, even as in the days of Noah when â??the Sons of God took as many as they desiredâ?, when He â??will make men scarcer than pure gold, human life scarcer than the gold of Ophirâ?, when the survivors of the Great Day of the Lord shall finally understand that eternal life is best spent when companioned with a Priest.

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Plurality of wives is not designed to afflict you nor me, but is purposed for our exaltation in the kingdoms of God. If any man had asked me what was my choice when Joseph revealed that doctrine, provided that it would not diminish my glory, I would have said, "Let me have but one wife;" not because it is not a great comfort to me to have children, but if I have not children I know them not.

Brigham's reaction to the principle:

Some of these my brethren know what my feelings were at the time Joseph revealed the doctrine; I was not desirous of shrinking from any duty, nor of failing in the least to do as I was commanded, but it was the first time in my life that I had desired the grave, and I could hardly get over it for a long time. And when I saw a funeral, I felt to envy the corpse its situation, and to regret that I was not in the coffin, knowing the toil and labor that my body would have to undergo; and I have had to examine myself, from that day to this, and watch my faith, and carefully meditate, lest I should be found desiring the grave more than I ought to do. You will probably wonder at this, and that such should have been my feelings upon this point, but they were even so.

A famous quote:

Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned; and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given, and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Note Brigham was speaking about belief in the revelations of God, not that everyone must practice plural marriage. It was understood among the saints not al were commanded to participate. From JoD 3:263-268.

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I have been asking for a quote from a modern prophet saying anything close for years.

I'm a prophet of God. And what value have you placed on the words I have presented?

The LDS Church teaches that every priest should be a prophet to his family. The meek shall inherit the earth, but who shall inherit the meek?

The priests of God and Christ shall be Fathers to the multitude, if youâ??ll have us in the Holy Spirit of Christ.

The promise given to Abraham, â??to have descendants as numerous as the stars of heavenâ? is the same promise He gives to the Priest, enjoying a Fatherhood in Christ.

Are we to remain the Sons of God forever? Or was it His plan from the beginning to make the worthy in obedience Fatherâ??s in Christ?

I think the promises of Fatherhood, hence Godhood are true!

Zemah

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In the next life [do] we have to enter plural marriage in order to be exalted[?] . . . . I want quotes, legitimate ones from past and living prophets

In answer to a letter "received at the office of the First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints . . . .

Question 4: Is plural or celestial marriage essential to a fulness of glory in the world to come?

Answer: Celestial marriage is essential to a fulness of glory in the world to come, as explained in the revelation concerning it;

but it is not stated that plural marriage is thus essential. . . .

These questions are answered, so that it may not be truthfully claimed that we avoid them. . . .

Charles W. Penrose,

Of the First Presidency."

(Improvement Era, vol. 15, no. 11, September 1912, 1042).

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"Where did this commandment come from in relation to polygamy? It also came from God. It was a revelation given unto Joseph Smith from God, and was made binding upon His servants. When this system was first introduced among this people, it was one of the greatest crosses that ever was taken up by any set of men since the world stood. Joseph Smith told others; he told me, and I can bear witness of it, "that if this principle was not introduced, this Church and kingdom could not proceed." When this commandment was given, it was so far religious, and so far binding upon the Elders of this Church that it was told them if they were not prepared to enter into it, and to stem the torrent of opposition that would come in consequence of it, the keys of the kingdom would be taken from them. When I see any of our people, men or women, opposing a principle of this kind, I have years ago set them down as on the high road to apostacy, and I do to-day; I consider them apostates, and not interested in this Church and kingdom." (Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, p.221)

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"Where did this commandment come from in relation to polygamy? It also came from God. It was a revelation given unto Joseph Smith from God, and was made binding upon His servants. When this system was first introduced among this people, it was one of the greatest crosses that ever was taken up by any set of men since the world stood. Joseph Smith told others; he told me, and I can bear witness of it, "that if this principle was not introduced, this Church and kingdom could not proceed." When this commandment was given, it was so far religious, and so far binding upon the Elders of this Church that it was told them if they were not prepared to enter into it, and to stem the torrent of opposition that would come in consequence of it, the keys of the kingdom would be taken from them. When I see any of our people, men or women, opposing a principle of this kind, I have years ago set them down as on the high road to apostacy, and I do to-day; I consider them apostates, and not interested in this Church and kingdom." (Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, p.221)

I agree that plural marriage is required of the Priestly Fathers in God.

Who wrote it?

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Jacob 2:30 "For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things."

I would think that Jacob 2:30 applies everywhere you go, even beyond mortality. Therefore the best answer is you may or may not be required.

But, will those who have failed to do it in this terrestrial life be allowed too in a celestial capacity?

I think not. That privilege shall be reserved in the afterlife to those who have overcome the enemies of God here, namely doubt and denial. If someone doubts that Christâ??s Church is built on the living Word of God in revelation and does not accept or denies the requirements of a celestial covenant marriage of a man and a woman in God and our Lord Jesus Christ through His Church, what claim do they have to creating spirit children in the afterlife?

I would say, â??None at allâ?.

He might say, â??I never knew you.â?

Zemah

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"Some of the brethren are worrying about the matter and feel that they ought to have other wives. Brethren, do not worry; you will lose nothing. Turning to Heber, he said, "There is Brother Heber J. Grant, who is without a son and who consequently feels anxious about it." I want to say to Brother Grant that he will have sons and daughters and his posterity shall become as numerous as the sands upon the seashore or the stars in heavenCthe promise made to Abraham is his through faithfulness. Brethren, don't worry about these things, and if you don't happen to secure the means you would like, don't feel disappointed. The Lord will make you rich in due time, and if you are faithful, you will become Gods in eternity. This I know to be the truth."-Lorenzo Snow

Diaries of Rudger Clawson, 11 July 1901. Stan Larson, Diaries of Rudger Clawson, 300-01.

"In this dispensation, the promulgation of the law of plural marriage had an effect similar to the presentation of the doctrine of the Bread of Life in the meridian dispensation. Opposition from without the Church increased, while some unstable members of the kingdom itself found themselves unable to accept the fulness of the revealed program of the Lord. There were many important reasons why the Lord revealed the doctrine of plurality of wives. But if plural marriage had served no other purpose than to sift the chaff from the wheat, than to keep the unstable and semi-faithful people from the fulness of gospel blessings, it would have been more than justified". Bruce R. McConkie (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 1:361-62.)

"this matter [of the 1890 Manifesto] continued a trial to me through the year 1891, and plagued me much, but I said but little about it; and by and by I began to remember the flash of light that came to me when first I heard of it, and at last my feelings became reconciled to it. Perhaps I had transgressed in pushing from me the first testimony I received in relation to it, and allowing my own prejudices, and my own short-sighted, human reason to stand against the inspiration of God and the testimony it bore that the Manifesto was alright. When this fact began to dawn on my mind I repented of my wrong and courted most earnestly the spirit of God for a testimony and gradually it came. I did not understand the purposes for which the Manifesto was issued (I do not to this day, Feb 10 1893) but sure I am that it is all right; that God has a purpose in it I feel assured, and in due time it will be manifest." (Sillito, Diaries of B. H. Roberts, 226-27; Walker, "Roberts and the Manifesto," 365.)

"There is a great deal said about our plural marriage... It is a principle that pertains to eternal life, in other words, to endless lives, or eternal increase. It is a law of the Gospel pertaining to the celestial kingdom, applicable to all gospel dispensations, when commanded and not otherwise, and neither acceptable to God or binding on man unless given by commandment, not only so given in this dispensation, but particularly adapted to the conditions and necessities thereof, and to the circumstances, responsibilities, and personal, as well as vicarious duties of the people of God in this age of the world." JD 20:26

There is one thing I am sure about, that is, that there has not been a leitimate plural marriage in the eyes of God or the Church since 1904 and that Lorin C. Whooly was a false prophet.

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I'm a prophet of God. And what value have you placed on the words I have presented?

The LDS Church teaches that every priest should be a prophet to his family. The meek shall inherit the earth, but who shall inherit the meek?

The priests of God and Christ shall be Fathers to the multitude, if youâ??ll have us in the Holy Spirit of Christ.

The promise given to Abraham, â??to have descendants as numerous as the stars of heavenâ? is the same promise He gives to the Priest, enjoying a Fatherhood in Christ.

Are we to remain the Sons of God forever? Or was it His plan from the beginning to make the worthy in obedience Fatherâ??s in Christ?

I think the promises of Fatherhood, hence Godhood are true!

Zemah

I have no idea what you are preaching about. But since I am not your famlly I am not required to place any value on what you say...and I hope even your family does some cross checks. :P

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Where are the quotes from the last part of the 20th century saying the same things?

Good point, I dont think you'll find any. For two very good reasons...er guesses:

1)our religion is a practicle one. there is no point is studying principles that we cant practice. Its like having a gospel doctrine class on the united order when all you have to do is pay tithing.

2)we are trying to bring people to Christ not scare them away. Most LDS dont have any polygamous roots from the 19th centuary. I dont. So, the concept is very wierd for them, especially women. Afterall, Cinderella didnt have sister wives. Why spend time trying to have people converted to principles they cant apply in their lives.

2.a)People nowadays have a hard time recognizing how valuable and precious women are. Dont belive me? Just flip on the tube and tell me what you see; there are only five type of women depicted on TV: the crazy crack head, the dummee, the sex object, the evil b-word and the fem-nazi man hater. Basically, our culture gets off on degrading women. People can name the players on their favorite basketball teams, but they dont give a rip about who the Laker girls are. They are just there to look pretty and girate for us. So I think, given that women in our society are viewed in a degrading manner, when people think of polygamy they just think of degradation on a massive scale.

Besides, whatever is in the CK cant be changed by a prophet's thumbs up or thumbs down.

The fact that I even started this thread probably says something about whether I am even focusing enough on trying to get to the CK to begin with. Good bye JoD, hello Conference mp3!!!!!!!!!!!! :P

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Just flip on the tube and tell me what you see; there are only five type of women depicted on TV: the crazy crack head, the dummee, the sex object, the evil b-word and the fem-nazi man hater.

You must only watch one station. I see women depicted as wives, mothers, doctors, lawyers, educators, newscasters,construction workers, and a myriad of other things on t.v. in addition to those you mentioned. Their characters are as varied as the men. As much as I hate the immorality rampant on television, I have to say that today's t.v. and movie writers generally create much more realistic, multi dimensional characters than in the past.

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You must only watch one station. I see women depicted as wives, mothers, doctors, lawyers, educators, newscasters,construction workers, and a myriad of other things on t.v. in addition to those you mentioned. Their characters are as varied as the men. As much as I hate the immorality rampant on television, I have to say that today's t.v. and movie writers generally create much more realistic, multi dimensional characters than in the past.

touche :P ........but you get my point right?

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