Angel Moroni - Declaration Of Independence

[Facsimile 3]

I heard in Church that the Angel Moroni witnessed the signing of the Declaration of Independence. I have never found an LDS source confirming this. The only thing close I have ever come across relating to this was from the book The Secret Destiny of America by Manly P. Hall.

Faced with the death penalty for high treason, courageous men debated long before they picked up the quill pen to sign the parchment that declared the independence of the colonies from the mother country on July 4, 1776. For many hours they had debated in the State House at Philadelphia, with the lower chamber doors locked and a guard posted.

According to Jefferson, it was late in the afternoon before the delegates gathered their courage to the sticking point. The talk was about axes, scaffolds, and the gibbet, when suddenly a strong, bold voice sounded--"Gibbet! They may stretch our necks on all the gibbets in the land; they may turn every rock into a scaffold; every tree into a gallows; every home into a grave, and yet the words of that parchment can never die! They may pour our blood on a thousand scaffolds, and yet from every drop that dies the axe a new champion of freedom will spring into birth! The British King may blot out the stars of God from the sky, but he cannot blot out His words written on that parchment there. The works of God may perish; His words, never!

"The words of this declaration will live in the world long after our bones are dust. To the mechanic in his workshop they will speak hope: to the slave in the mines freedom: but to the coward kings, these words will speak in tones of warning they cannot choose but hear.

"Sign that parchment! Sign, if the next moment the gibbet's rope is about your neck! Sign, if the next minute this hall rings with the clash of falling axes! Sign, by all of your hopes in life or death, as men, as husbands, as fathers, brothers, sign your names to the parchment, or be accursed forever! Sign, and not only for yourselves, but for all ages, for that parchment will be the textbook of freedom, the bible of the rights of man forever.

"Nay, do not start and whisper with surprise! It is truth, your own hearts witness it: God proclaims it. Look at this strange band of exiles and outcasts, suddenly transformed into a people; a handful of men, weak in arms, but mighty in God-like faith; nay, look at your recent achievements, your Bunker Hill, you Lexington, and then tell me, if you can, that God has not given America to be free!

"It is not give to our poor human intellect to climb to the skies and to pierce the Council of the Almighty One. But methinks I stand among the awful clouds which veils the brightness of Jehovah's throne.

"Methinks I see the recording Angel come trembling up to the throne and speak his dread message. 'Father, the old world is baptized in blood. Father, look with one glance of Thine eternal eye, and behold evermore that terrible sight, man trodden beneath the oppressor's feet, nations lost in blood, murder, and superstition, walking hand in hand over the graves of the victims, and not a single voice of hope to man!'

"He stands there, the Angel, trembling with the record of human guilt, But hark! The voice of God speaks from the awful cloud: 'Let there be Light again! Tell my people, the poor and oppressed, to go out from the old world, from oppression and blood, and build my alter in the new.'

"As I live, my friends, I believe that to be his voice! Yes, were my soul trembling on the verge of eternity, were this hand freezing in death, were this voice choking in the last struggle, I would still, with the last impulse of that soul, with the last wave of that hand, with the last gasp of that voice, implore you to remember this truth--God has given America to be free!

"Yes, as I sank into the gloomy shadows of the grave, with my last faint whisper I would beg you to sign that parchment for the sake of those millions whose very breath is now hushed in intense expactation as they look up to you for the awful words: 'You are free.'"

The unknown speaker fell exhausted into his seat. The delegates, carried away by his enthusiasm, rushed forward. John Hancock scarcely had time to pen his bold signature before the quill was grasped by another. It was done.

The delegates turned to express their gratitude to the unknown speaker for his elequent words. He was not there.

Who was this strange man, who seemed to speak with a divine authority, whose solemn words gave courage to the doubters and sealed the destiny of the new nation?

His name is not recorded; none of those present knew him; or if they did they did, not one acknowledged the acquaintance.

How he had entered into the locked and guarded room is not told, nor is there any record of the manner of his departure.

[The Nehor]

That wasn't Moroni. I sure had fun before I was born

[grego]

John? Three Nephites?

[freakin a man]

I believe Orson Pratt made a statement about Moroni being with George Washington during the revolutionary war and also helped guide Columbus. I will have to go find the talk he gave on the subject. It could just be his personal opinion. Who knows for sure.

[Aquilifer]

Sounds like something to place in the 'Mormon Folklore' category rather than 'Doctrine.'

[structurecop]

Why would you automatically assume it was Moroni?

[The Nehor]

Why would you automatically assume it was Moroni?

I didn't, I assumed it was me.

[charity's child]

I would have guessed it was Gabriel. He was the major speech maker, wasn't he?

[Sargon]

Sounds like something to place in the 'Mormon Folklore' category rather than 'Doctrine.'

Ditto.

Sargon

[e=mc2]

It's all happy Mormon folklore....things like this just bug the livin heck outta me man. I have no idea why, but lets stick with the facts and leave the speculating to the weak of testimony. Speculation *never* builds or improves a testimony when its obviously so faith-promoting. Scriptures and prophetic statements of the brethren are much more powerful....... much more so. Sheesh!

[selek]

It's all happy Mormon folklore....things like this just bug the livin heck outta me man. I have no idea why, but lets stick with the facts and leave the speculating to the weak of testimony. Speculation *never* builds or improves a testimony when its obviously so faith-promoting. Scriptures and prophetic statements of the brethren are much more powerful....... much more so. Sheesh!

Ditto!

[Lightbearer]

I never heard of such a thing, but it sounds more like a three nephite story to me... The only thing I ever heard (which has been documented) was that all the original signers of the Declaration came to Wilford Woodruff in the Manti (or was it St. George) Temple and demanded baptism and other ordinance work from him, which he did. Never heard anything about Moroni appearing to them though.

[Facsimile 3]

It's all happy Mormon folklore....things like this just bug the livin heck outta me man. I have no idea why, but lets stick with the facts and leave the speculating to the weak of testimony. Speculation *never* builds or improves a testimony when its obviously so faith-promoting. Scriptures and prophetic statements of the brethren are much more powerful....... much more so. Sheesh!

Hey man I heard this in church I didn't speculate anything. All I was hoping for by posting this was to see if anyone had a concrete LDS source on this. Doesn't look like there is one so that kind of answers my question. I figured this would be a refreshing change from the 3 or 4 polls on who is going to the celestial kingdom.

[structurecop]

Hey man I heard this in church I didn't speculate anything. All I was hoping for by posting this was to see if anyone had a concrete LDS source on this. Doesn't look like there is one so that kind of answers my question. I figured this would be a refreshing change from the 3 or 4 polls on who is going to the celestial kingdom.

I'm sure Kerry is more upset with those who propogate such rumours rather than those who seek to find evidence to confirm it.

[grego]

I have no idea why, but lets stick with the facts and leave the speculating to the weak of testimony.

, says Mr. Speculation himself...

[Deborah]

So does Hall cite a source for this?

[Michael Sanders]

Orson Hyde statement in 1854 about Moroni's role in assisting both Columbus and Washington. JD 6:368

For a fuller treatment, see E. Douglas Clark,The Grand Design: America from Columbus to Zion, [Desert Book: Salt Lake City, Utah]: 219-227 in the Appendix.

Mike Sanders

Book of Mormon Believer

Independence, MO

[Hyrum Page]

It's all happy Mormon folklore....things like this just bug the livin heck outta me man. I have no idea why, but lets stick with the facts and leave the speculating to the weak of testimony. Speculation *never* builds or improves a testimony when its obviously so faith-promoting. Scriptures and prophetic statements of the brethren are much more powerful....... much more so. Sheesh!

Come on! You would be that judgmental about folklore! What about Tarot cards and the mystical Kabbalah? That's more legitimate? Give the poor folks a break!

[Joseph Antley]

So does Hall cite a source for this?

I was wondering the same thing.

[PacMan]

Let's just make sure the "lore" of it stops with identifying Moroni specifically. Jefferson's the one that noted it as possibly an angel, and it's his account we're taking it from.

THAT being said, I'd love to get a copy of Jefferson's original. That'd be interesting.

And, the other thing...I forgot.

PacMan

Oh... I remember!

We need to get Skousen to do a text analysis on Jefferson's quote, and Moroni in the BoM. Maybe then, the mystery could be solved!

PacMan

[Alan]

I don't buy any of this, I think it is complete nonsense.

Being English I see the war a little differently to you guys. The whole thing was a smokescreen. All that really happend is that the Virginia Company changed it's name to the United States of America and carried on trading. The main stockholder of the Virginia Company? - was and still is to this day the British Crown.

Question: why does the US flag used in American courts of law have gold braiding? Answer, because the proceedings of the court and the ultimate jurisdiction of the court, is the British Admiralty.

As for Columbus, he knew exactly where he was going. The existence of the new world was well known. Roslyn Chapel in Scotland is adorned with carvings of maize (corn) which date many years before Columbus.

So I do not believe in this Moroni story because 1) Columbus knew where he was going and 2) America is still "owned" by the British crown.

Alan

[Helmuth]

I believe Orson Pratt made a statement about Moroni being with George Washington during the revolutionary war and also helped guide Columbus.

If Moroni was guiding Washington, I would have hoped he'd have given him better military advice.

[freakin a man]

If Moroni was guiding Washington, I would have hoped he'd have given him better military advice.

You think you would have done a better job. Sounds to me like a little Monday morning quarterbacking here. Seems to me that Washington came out ok

[The Nehor]

I don't buy any of this, I think it is complete nonsense.

Being English I see the war a little differently to you guys. The whole thing was a smokescreen. All that really happend is that the Virginia Company changed it's name to the United States of America and carried on trading. The main stockholder of the Virginia Company? - was and still is to this day the British Crown.

Question: why does the US flag used in American courts of law have gold braiding? Answer, because the proceedings of the court and the ultimate jurisdiction of the court, is the British Admiralty.

As for Columbus, he knew exactly where he was going. The existence of the new world was well known. Roslyn Chapel in Scotland is adorned with carvings of maize (corn) which date many years before Columbus.

So I do not believe in this Moroni story because 1) Columbus knew where he was going and 2) America is still "owned" by the British crown.

Someone used a design that looked like Maize and the U.S. uses symbols from a nation they left but had strong cultural ties to.....and you can conclude the above.

As someone who has lived in both countries.............you're crazy.

[Alf O'Mega]

I heard in Church that the Angel Moroni witnessed the signing of the Declaration of Independence. I have never found an LDS source confirming this. The only thing close I have ever come across relating to this was from the book The Secret Destiny of America by Manly P. Hall.

The "Speech of the Unknown" was written by George Lippard in his 1847 book George Washington and His Generals: Or, Legends of the Revolution. It has been mistakenly attributed to John Hanson, who was not even present at the signing. Ronald Reagan quoted the speech in a 1957 commencement address at Eureka College. This permanently hobbled his political career, and he was never heard from again.