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Word Of Wisdom


AeonJ

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Acts 10:9-20 (KJV)

9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: 10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, 11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: 12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. 13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. 14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. 15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. 16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven. 17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate, 18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.

19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee. 20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

Matthew 15:10-20 (KJV)

10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: 11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. 12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? 13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. 14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. 15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable. 16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? 17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

1 Timothy 5:23 (KJV)

23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

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Acts 10:9-20 (KJV)

9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: 10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, 11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: 12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. 13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. 14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. 15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. 16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven. 17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate, 18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.

19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee. 20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

Matthew 15:10-20 (KJV)

10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: 11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. 12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? 13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. 14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. 15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable. 16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? 17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

1 Timothy 5:23 (KJV)

23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Well , I don't know that the Bible commands us to drink alcohol. I mean , I haven't seen the 11th Commandment where it says :

Thou shalt drink booze

and the 12th Commandment :

Thou shalt light 'em if you got 'em

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Maybe it's just me but the young people in the Bible didn't seem to go out and drink themselves stupid as some of my former work colleagues did. I suppose the Word of Wisdom is in place to protect us from that use of it, though I personally wouldn't want to drink it anyway.

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Aren't you really asking about those things that are arguably prohibited by the Bible? I don't think anyone here is suggesting that getting white hot drunk is acceptable for anyone. Wine just seems to be the easiest and most profound example of what might be prohibited.

As for me, I know several of my ilk who drink wine, me being one of them. However, my church is expressly against it. I read the case linked above and found it unconvincing primarily because the examples referenced by the scripture citations were way over the top.

I suppose I tend to more freedom than less.

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Aren't you really asking about those things that are arguably prohibited by the Bible? I don't think anyone here is suggesting that getting white hot drunk is acceptable for anyone. Wine just seems to be the easiest and most profound example of what might be prohibited.

As for me, I know several of my ilk who drink wine, me being one of them. However, my church is expressly against it. I read the case linked above and found it unconvincing primarily because the examples referenced by the scripture citations were way over the top.

I suppose I tend to more freedom than less.

And this, in many respects is the point of the Word of Wisdom: judgement, moderation, and discretion.

There is far more to the Word of Wisdom than what it prohibits. It is wise counsel, guidance, and direction as much as it is prohibition.

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And this, in many respects is the point of the Word of Wisdom: judgement, moderation, and discretion.

There is far more to the Word of Wisdom than what it prohibits. It is wise counsel, guidance, and direction as much as it is prohibition.

Having read as much about the WoW as I could, it seems more prohibitive than offering cousel. I am familiar with D&C 89. Is there more I should know?

Don't get me wrong, if that is what you choose to live by that's fine. I neither condemn nor applaud you for it. Due to the nature of man I could be talked into it being more hurtful than helpful - spiritually - though that may be a separate argument. I could grant you that many of the dictates are healthful, but considering what we now know about the balance of protein and carbs, it may be difficult to find a balance as prescribed in this particular section.

Okay, enough blather. Let's cut to the chase. Could an upstanding temple worthy LDS partake of wine? Assuming it's 2-3 oz. a day?

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Having read as much about the WoW as I could, it seems more prohibitive than offering cousel. I am familiar with D&C 89. Is there more I should know?

Okay, enough blather. Let's cut to the chase. Could an upstanding temple worthy LDS partake of wine? Assuming it's 2-3 oz. a day?

Yes, there is more you should know. You've got to read it by the power of the Holy Ghost.

Partaking of wine? Not at this time. We can get plenty of nutrients and more from non-alcoholic beverages.

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Yes, there is more you should know. You've got to read it by the power of the Holy Ghost.

Partaking of wine? Not at this time. We can get plenty of nutrients and more from non-alcoholic beverages.

Are you saying I didn't? Do we always have to revert to that?

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Are you saying I didn't? Do we always have to revert to that?

Rather than getting into an argument about who's truly inspired (which short of divine intervention, is ultimately a he-said, she-said arrangment at best), I would simply suggest that the Word of Wisdom is a matter that requires deeper, prayerful consideration rather than a quick surface reading or relatively casual overview.

The section is inspired, and it's promises and benefits are not all readily apparent without considerable review and contemplation.

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Rather than getting into an argument about who's truly inspired (which short of divine intervention, is ultimately a he-said, she-said arrangment at best), I would simply suggest that the Word of Wisdom is a matter that requires deeper, prayerful consideration rather than a quick surface reading or relatively casual overview.

The section is inspired, and it's promises and benefits are not all readily apparent without considerable review and contemplation.

Yes, I'm good with that. Good point. May I offer that many of the concepts are in the Bible and that one certainly could have contemplated the idea without necessarily having dwelled on the specifics of the WoW? It is from this perspective that I ask my previous question.

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Yes, I'm good with that. Good point. May I offer that many of the concepts are in the Bible and that one certainly could have contemplated the idea without necessarily having dwelled on the specifics of the WoW? It is from this perspective that I ask my previous question.

Assuming you mean the question about a temple-worthy Mormon drinking wine, I'd say that's between the Mormon, his Bishop and Stake President, and the Lord.

My own understanding and interpretation would suggest a "general" no, but not a "categorical" one.

Custom and usage dictate that the answer is no- but we've seen throughout history that custom and usage are not law, nor necessarily correct. I can concieve of circumstances where a Mormon might both drink wine and possess a temple recommend.

Speaking strictly in fairness, you might wish to consider carefully your "offer" above- it might be unseemly for an Evangelical Christian to publicly admit that the Mormon scriptures and Holy Bible share important concepts which would lead to similar conclusions. :P

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Assuming you mean the question about a temple-worthy Mormon drinking wine, I'd say that's between the Mormon, his Bishop and Stake President, and the Lord.

My own understanding and interpretation would suggest a "general" no, but not a "categorical" one.

Custom and usage dictate that the answer is no- but we've seen throughout history that custom and usage are not law, nor necessarily correct. I can concieve of circumstances where a Mormon might both drink wine and possess a temple recommend.

Speaking strictly in fairness, you might wish to consider carefully your "offer" above- it might be unseemly for an Evangelical Christian to publicly admit that the Mormon scriptures and Holy Bible share important concepts which would lead to similar conclusions. :P

Thank you for an informative response. I must admit, it's difficult to define where the line is. In that respect LDS is at a disadvantage, I would think. At least in our circles, we can fight it out and in this particular subject there does not need to be unanimity. Since LDS is monolithic, there's not a lot of wiggle room for you.

Yes, I thought about writing the comparison between bom and the Bible. It is not the specifics of the bom with which I contend, it is the practice. I haven't found a lot to vehemently disagree with the bom. Again, it is the practice as applied by d&c & pogp (do I have that last one correct?)

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Thank you for an informative response. I must admit, it's difficult to define where the line is. In that respect LDS is at a disadvantage, I would think. At least in our circles, we can fight it out and in this particular subject there does not need to be unanimity. Since LDS is monolithic, there's not a lot of wiggle room for you.

Yes, I thought about writing the comparison between bom and the Bible. It is not the specifics of the bom with which I contend, it is the practice. I haven't found a lot to vehemently disagree with the bom. Again, it is the practice as applied by d&c & pogp (do I have that last one correct?)

Yes, the Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price.

I'm not sure I agree with you on how clear or fuzzy the line is. Again, I think that most LDS would agree that the general answer would be "no", but that exceptions are possible, however rare.

The input of the Bishop and Stake President is critical in any such exception- they are the judges in modern Israel. The Word of Wisdom was originally given as inspired counsel, and only later became commandment- much like the original people of Israel needed forty years in the desert under the Mosaic law to rid themselves of the influence of Egyptian idolatry.

The Word of Wisdom was given by inspiration, any exceptions would need to come from the same source- inspiration.

I believe I've already mentioned it, but I was raised Southern Baptist. There's not a lot I see in day-to-day life that really distinguishes Mormon practice from Baptist. Certain philosophical differences (not least the need for modern revelation and prophetic leadership) of course.

I'm curious as to which Mormon practices you find most troublesome.

I must warn you though- we're on the verge of having a substantive conversation. :P

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Sorry it took so long. The joys of life intervened. If you are nor longer have the interest or the time, that's fine.

Let's start here.

From Mormon.org

The Apostles were killed and the priesthood authorityâ??including the keys to direct and receive revelation? for the Churchâ??was taken from the earth ( 2 Thessalonians 2:1â??3).

Hebrews 7:21

but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him: "The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind: 'You are a priest forever.'

This, of course, has a bearing on how you express your faith. That is, at least in some degree, there is a priest (melchizedek) between you and God. I think you mentioned this earlier in this thread.

That gives me pause.

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Here's one way to look it.

While it's true that "not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man," it is also true that if enough goeth into the mouth, "that which [will then come] out of the mouth, this defileth a man."

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From my perspective the issue with the WOW is that it short circuits the promises of God given for those who trust in the LORD and wait on Him instead of forcing ahead and taking His time into their own hands.

Don't have my concordance at the ready, but do a search on such things as 'shall run and not be faint', etc. Seems it is from Isaiah.

To think these things can be gained by not drinking coffee or coke seems quite humorous to me:-)

As Jesus said, do what He says and you will know. Jesus made wine for the wedding feast as His first miracle, so I highly doubt the WOW has anything to do with being a disciple of Jesus Christ.

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From my perspective the issue with the WOW is that it short circuits the promises of God given for those who trust in the LORD and wait on Him instead of forcing ahead and taking His time into their own hands.

Christ himself said that if we loved him, we would keep his commandments. That's hardly short-circuiting the process.

Don't have my concordance at the ready, but do a search on such things as 'shall run and not be faint', etc. Seems it is from Isaiah.

To think these things can be gained by not drinking coffee or coke seems quite humorous to me:-)

Medical science has long admitted the dangers of excessive use of these- which is why certain doctors and other medical professionals are lobbying to have it removed from schools, heavily taxed and regulated.

The science is there- whether you believe it can be used as a bludgeon against the Church or not.

As Jesus said, do what He says and you will know.

We do, and we have. We have done what he says, kept the Word of Wisdom, and we know the truth of the counsel.

Jesus made wine for the wedding feast as His first miracle, so I highly doubt the WOW has anything to do with being a disciple of Jesus Christ.

And Joseph himself drank wine, as the hate-mongerers and other anti-Mormon rabble are fond of pointing out, as though it presents a case of hypocrisy.

Read the Word of Wisdom- the explanation for the prohibition on wine is clearly laid out. Half truths and distorted facts undermine, not support your arguments, Neighbor- which explains why you have yet to win one on these boards.

Your opinion on what makes a disciple of Christ is wholly irrevelent- it is HIS opinion which is critical. You are a by-blow who won't even merit a foot note in the history of time (I'm in much the same boat). Christ is the master and creator of the world. Forgive me if I take his word over yours.

The modern Word of Wisdom is, in principle, no different than the dietary guidelines given to the ancient people of Israel. Our keeping the Word of Wisdom is no different, in principle, than keeping kosher.

Fools and fanatics mocked Israel then, they mock her now. Times change, the cars get faster, but people remain the same.

Neighbor, your ongoing antipathy to Christ's commandments, counsel, and Church damns your soul, not mine. You're in a hole- I'd advise you to stop digging, but I doubt you will listen.

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Sorry it took so long. The joys of life intervened. If you are nor longer have the interest or the time, that's fine.

Let's start here.

From Mormon.org

The Apostles were killed and the priesthood authorityâ??including the keys to direct and receive revelation? for the Churchâ??was taken from the earth ( 2 Thessalonians 2:1â??3).

2nd Thessalonians 2:1-3

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

I'm not sure I follow why this troubles you. These scriptures teach that the Second Coming/Great and Glorious Day of the Lord will not come until there shall be a falling away and an anti-Christ/Son of Perdition reveals himself. This is consistent with the teachings of the LDS Church and the Book of Revelations.

Hebrews 7:21

but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him: "The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind: 'You are a priest forever.'

I'm clearly missing something.

This, of course, has a bearing on how you express your faith. That is, at least in some degree, there is a priest (melchizedek) between you and God. I think you mentioned this earlier in this thread.

That gives me pause.

I'm really certain I'm missing something in the translation. Are you suggesting that the sinful man/son of perdition in 2 Thess 2:3 is a priesthood leader?

If so, that interpretation is not consistent with the Scriptures. In every dispensation, in every authorized organization of the Church, there have always been prophets and priesthood leaders.

No one stands between me and God, and more than your pastor stands between you and God. LDS priesthood leaders are charged with leading and caring for the flock, just as is any shepherd. Being given charge to lead, counsel, and guide does not grant them unrighteous dominion or dictatorial powers over me, nor does it relieve me of responsibility for my own eternal welfare. It is my duty to seek first the kingdom of God, to ready myself, and to become as much like Christ as I can- to take his countenance upon myself. No priesthood leader can deprive me of that right and duty, nor, ultimately, can they stop me.

That's why each member of the Church is entitled to personal inspiration from Heavenly Father through the Holy Spirit- we are responsible for our growth, not our leaders.

Any priesthood leader, who dispenses his duties unrighteously shall be judged for that act, and none of the faithful will be denied blessings or truths because of someone else's unrighteousness.

God is the ultimate authority and ultimately he will judge.

If I've misunderstood what you were saying, please forgive me, and then clarify what you meant. I very much want to understand and be understood.

It might also be a good idea to start up a new thread so as to avoid further derailing this particular train wreck.

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From my perspective the issue with the WOW is that it short circuits the promises of God given for those who trust in the LORD and wait on Him instead of forcing ahead and taking His time into their own hands.

Don't have my concordance at the ready, but do a search on such things as 'shall run and not be faint', etc. Seems it is from Isaiah.

To think these things can be gained by not drinking coffee or coke seems quite humorous to me:-)

As Jesus said, do what He says and you will know. Jesus made wine for the wedding feast as His first miracle, so I highly doubt the WOW has anything to do with being a disciple of Jesus Christ.

Comparing someone who constantly drinks alcohol in the evenings, heavily on weekends for parties, coffee before work, and smokes while at home to another person who eats healthy, doesn't drink or smoke, and uses a good jog to wake up in the morning, who do you think will be able to "run and not be faint"? The Word of Wisdom does hold water, it's a good basis on which to live to be healthy, and being healthy usually means you can be happy too.

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The WOW probably serves as one of the most difficult and intrusive aspects of mormonism in our marriage and family. It's not because of what it can do for the positives in life, but more because of the "all or nothing" line in the sand that it draws relative to a belief in Christianity. Obviously, it may impact me more because of the fact that I am a non-member spouse with children asking the question of the Lds Church: Why?

I simply do not understand the reason nor origin of using this threat for the withholding of certain church or "spiritual" benefits by it's rules. This becomes even more troublesome for me from either a Christian perspective and/or health perspective when one tries to apply the a concept of common sense.

It really appears, to me anyway, to be used as a tool of public and emotional control over members. If there were any true "health or lifestyle" benefits out of such control aspects then I might reconsider. But when you look at the severe "salvation" consequences that it delivers to members who maynot want to evaluate its merits on their own, it just seems (IMHO) so non-sensical and arbitrary that one really needs to question what it is all about.

True, it addresses some things that can, in excess, be detrimental to ones lifestyle. That is the easy thing in any blanket and emotional rule. But what is it's true objective? Why does it not address the issues that, at least in my wife's Lds family, are so obvious affecting THEIR lifestyles and personal health in such a negative way and yet they are what I have learned to be "temple worthy" by abiding to it???

Why is it that my wife can enjoy an occasional glass of wine, be the perfect specimen of health, be the perfect mother, and yet not enjoy whatever it is that one who does not do that gets in the Lds church. This is a lady who is a specimen of health while others in her ward who are just the opposite with their own health get the accolades of temple acceptance and what ever else is allowed. Yet I have to watch the "guilt complex" not only enter her life, but enter out home!

So where did Christ say that coffee and wine were not allowed? Did he say that those who treated there body with no respect, while living the WOW, were perfectly fine with his salvation? Where did this WOW come from God?????

Why is it that one with a reasonable mind should not conclude that this is nothing but "mind control"? And while I respect all may have personal testimonies, can I at least ask for either an official Lds church response or one that addresses how one who can have terrible lifestyle habits (ie; those who abuse food and other prescription medication and yet qualify for temple recs) are any different.

Again, please - no testimonies.

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Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Rom 14:3

Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

Rom 14:13

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way.

Rom 14:14

I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean.

Rom 14:15

But if thy brother be grieved with [thy] meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

Rom 14:17

For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Rom 14:19

Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

Rom 14:20

For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil for that man who eateth with offence.

Rom 14:21

[it is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

It is a covenant unique to the current church, but the foundation is there in the New Testament. We don't require that other Christians keep it, but we keep it (ideally) for the benefit of others.

It is not a sin to eat bread.

It is a sin to eat bread before someone we know to be struggling to fast.

We don't always know who is fasting.

We cannot give up bread because we would die.

We can give up the things that are unnecessary to life that are easily self indulgent and that tie us to the world. We can use everything else in moderation in a type of "fast" from self indulgence.

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It is a covenant unique to the current church, but the foundation is there in the New Testament. We don't require that other Christians keep it, but we keep it (ideally) for the benefit of others.

It is not a sin to eat bread.

It is a sin to eat bread before someone we know to be struggling to fast.

We don't always know who is fasting.

We cannot give up bread because we would die.

We can give up the things that are unnecessary to life that are easily self indulgent and that tie us to the world. We can use everything else in moderation in a type of "fast" from self indulgence.

Exactly why I asked for no tesitmonies!

Can you explain your scriptures as well as you copy them in light of the WOW requested by the Lds Church?

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It really appears, to me anyway, to be used as a tool of public and emotional control over members. If there were any true "health or lifestyle" benefits out of such control aspects then I might reconsider.

The health and lifestyle benefits do exist, Yme, whether you choose to ignore them or not.

But when you look at the severe "salvation" consequences that it delivers to members who maynot want to evaluate its merits on their own, it just seems (IMHO) so non-sensical and arbitrary that one really needs to question what it is all about.

Would you parse or diagram this sentence for me? It makes no sense to me as written.

True, it addresses some things that can, in excess, be detrimental to ones lifestyle. That is the easy thing in any blanket and emotional rule. But what is it's true objective?

Have you read the Word of Wisdom? Verse Two sets forth its purpose and intent.

Why does it not address the issues that, at least in my wife's Lds family, are so obvious affecting THEIR lifestyles and personal health in such a negative way and yet they are what I have learned to be "temple worthy" by abiding to it???

That would depend heavily on the nature of thier health issues, now wouldn't it? Please specify which aspects of the Word of Wisdom are negatively affective their health. I don't think you can do it.

Why is it that my wife can enjoy an occasional glass of wine, be the perfect specimen of health, be the perfect mother, and yet not enjoy whatever it is that one who does not do that gets in the Lds church.
You are assuming that the only difference between them is the practice of the Word of Wisdom. That sounds remarkably simplistic to me.
This is a lady who is a specimen of health while others in her ward who are just the opposite with their own health get the accolades of temple acceptance and what ever else is allowed. Yet I have to watch the "guilt complex" not only enter her life, but enter out home!
I'm sorry that your wife has a conscience. Guilt would not be a factor unless she knows or beleives she is doing something which she should not and is thus convicted by her own guilt.
So where did Christ say that coffee and wine were not allowed?

Easy question. Doctrine and Covenants, Section 89.

Did he say that those who treated there body with no respect, while living the WOW, were perfectly fine with his salvation?
He did not. He said that those who obeyed the counsel given would receive health, strength, wisdom, and would be passed over by the destroying angel. A logical interpretation of the text would suggest that those who did not keep the Word of Wisdom would not be so blessed.
Where did this WOW come from God?????
Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833.
Why is it that one with a reasonable mind should not conclude that this is nothing but "mind control"?
Why should one with a reasonable mind conclude that this is mind control?
And while I respect all may have personal testimonies, can I at least ask for either an official Lds church response or one that addresses how one who can have terrible lifestyle habits (ie; those who abuse food and other prescription medication and yet qualify for temple recs) are any different.

The Church has long counseled against abusing oneself through the use of drugs (whether illegal or prescription). The Word of Wisdom itself condemns gluttony. Your protest makes no sense.

Read the Word of Wisdom for yourself. As I stated above, blessings are offered to those who keep the counsel and commandment. Logically, they will be denied to those who do not keep them.

Again, please - no testimonies.

I agree- no testimonies, once you agree to defend your position without using words. My suggested restriction is no less inane or sanctimonious than your own.

Can you explain your scriptures as well as you copy them in light of the WOW requested by the Lds Church?

Etana is far clearer and more articulate than you have been, Yme. Perhaps you might diagram this sentence as well?

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