Only One True Church?

[Son]

The Pope says Catholics are the only true Christian church, show me where it says that.

And the Peter on the rock thing don't cut it. To vague for such a declaration of one true church.

The next breath Jesus told Peter to get thee behind me Satan, so was that the distance his rock rolled?

The LDS Prophet I presume believes that LDS are the only true church

Who Cares?

Does it limit ones ability to approach God, serve Him. Love mankind unconditionally?

Does anyone actually think that salvation comes through membership?

I thought is was a gift of God through Christ?

Does division have no bounds?

Does Satan win on every subject, even on how one worships God, serves HIm, believes and grows into perfection.

There is ONE true church the Bible speaks of ; It is the Church of the Firstborn, of which Enoch is the first to belong. He was the first to overcome death, and undo the works of Satan ( the Author of Death).

So my vote is for everyone to shelve the my club is better, and seek for the One true Church of God. The heavenly, the CHurch of the Firstborn Ones......Hope to see you there....

son

PS, if you can seek best through membership and require guidence until you can stand and be led directly, by all means that is why they are there. Godspeed.

[Uncle Dale]

And the Peter on the rock thing don't cut it. To vague for such a declaration of

one true church. The next breath Jesus told Peter to get thee behind me Satan,

so was that the distance his rock rolled?

Compare the content of that gospel pericope to what is recorded in Mark and Thomas, who

tell somewhat similar stories, but without any special authority implied for Peter.

I do not doubt that somewhere, some time, Jesus said something about Peter being a rock

and the foundation of the gathering (congregation = ecclesia = church) of Jesus followers ----

only I doubt very much that such things were said along with the "Who do men say that I am"

episode. My guess is that Matthew has here conflated two separate oral traditions, and that

Mark and Thomas are more reliable in their simplier telling of the story.

And the Coptic Gospel of Thomas more reliable than a somewhat altered Markan rendering....

UD

[Nofear]

Does anyone actually think that salvation comes through membership?

The answer is somewhat dependent on what you mean by salvation.

[Son]

The answer is somewhat dependent on what you mean by salvation.

Mercifully released from the second death.

[Uncle Dale]

The answer is somewhat dependent on what you mean by salvation.

You know -- salvation -- being saved.

The Israelites are backed up against the waters, with no hope of success, and yet

the waters spare them and drown the king's mounted hosts instead.

And you cannot to this very day attend a Passover seder without being reminded of it.

THAT kind of salvation...

UD

[smac97]

So has anyone seen Ratatouille yet? I've heard it's pretty goot.

Feeling-free-to-go-off-topic,

-Smac

[Tarski]

The Pope says Catholics are the only true Christian church, show me where it says that.

And the Peter on the rock thing don't cut it. To vague for such a declaration of one true church.

The next breath Jesus told Peter to get thee behind me Satan, so was that the distance his rock rolled?

The LDS Prophet I presume believes that LDS are the only true church

Who Cares?

Does it limit ones ability to approach God, serve Him. Love mankind unconditionally?

But doesn't one have to do a special little dance or make special motions or say the right thing?

Ordinances!

One has to have jumped through the magic hoops, said the right magic words, been sprinkled, immersed, touched on the head, clapped one's hands, turned around twice on a Monday, faced east and kneeled on a special rug, stepped on the special ground, etc. etc. and then one has to know the club password. Only then will God accept you. Supreme beings always worry about this stuff.

[Son]

But doesn't one have to do a special little dance or make special motions or say the right thing?

Ordinances!

One has to have jumped through the magic hoops, said the right magic words, been sprinkled, immersed, touched on the head, clapped one's hands, turned around twice on a Monday, faced east and kneeled on a special rug, stepped on the special ground, etc. etc. and then one has to know the club password. Only then will God accept you. Supreme beings always worry about this stuff.

It would seem so, how many of the motions have you completed?

[Son]

So has anyone seen Ratatouille yet? I've heard it's pretty goot.

Feeling-free-to-go-off-topic,

-Smac

I saw the trailers, it looked pretty good, my kids were laughing, if that is a barometer.

So what is the symbology of a Rat, Teaching a man how to cook?

Non-sense, or a deeper lesson to be gleaned.

He gives recipes from under a Hat? Any similarities. Is he a Seer Rat?

[BCSpace]

Who Cares?

Besides God, logic dictates. Either God exists or He does not. If He does, then either He has a Church or He does not. If He does, then He has only one Church else He would be a liar and a respector of persons.

Does anyone actually think that salvation comes through membership?

Membership (and attendance) is required for salvation. Without it, one cannot hear the correct doctrine (Ephesians 4:11-14).

I thought is was a gift of God through Christ?

Grace IS a free gift. However, one must open and apply the gift in order to have eternal life. The extent of your valiance in obedience, keeping the commandments, doing the ordinances, doing good works etc. is the extent of your salvation.

Does division have no bounds?

Christ is a divider (Matthew 10:34, Matthew 25:32-46, etc.)

There is ONE true church the Bible speaks of ; It is the Church of the Firstborn, of which Enoch is the first to belong.

Amen! It is manifested on earth today as the LDS Church.

PS, if you can seek best through membership and require guidence until you can stand and be led directly, by all means that is why they are there. Godspeed.

Such contradicts the first Bible verse I gave.

[docrick]

The Pope says Catholics are the only true Christian church, show me where it says that.

And the Peter on the rock thing don't cut it. To vague for such a declaration of one true church.

The next breath Jesus told Peter to get thee behind me Satan, so was that the distance his rock rolled?

The LDS Prophet I presume believes that LDS are the only true church

Who Cares?

Does it limit ones ability to approach God, serve Him. Love mankind unconditionally?

Does anyone actually think that salvation comes through membership?

I thought is was a gift of God through Christ?

Does division have no bounds?

Does Satan win on every subject, even on how one worships God, serves HIm, believes and grows into perfection.

There is ONE true church the Bible speaks of ; It is the Church of the Firstborn, of which Enoch is the first to belong. He was the first to overcome death, and undo the works of Satan ( the Author of Death).

So my vote is for everyone to shelve the my club is better, and seek for the One true Church of God. The heavenly, the CHurch of the Firstborn Ones......Hope to see you there....

son

PS, if you can seek best through membership and require guidence until you can stand and be led directly, by all means that is why they are there. Godspeed.

I absolutely respect what the Pope had to say. I was raised a "Southern Baptist". When I no longer believed the things espoused by the Baptist faith I really went "soul searching" to find the truth regarding Christ and His Church.

After much study I concluded that the only possible religious "church" having the fullness of truth was:

1. The Jews

2. The Catholics

3. The Mormons

4. Christ's church does not exist

All other "churches" made and continue to make no sense to me. These "denominations" are nothing more than break offs or break offs of break offs of the Catholic church. If the Catholic Church is truly Christ's church on earth you can't break off from it and be "right." This is simple logic. I don't care if you have Christ in your heart and serve your fellow man everyday if the Catholic Church is indeed Christs Church then so be it.

Back to my study.

The Jews can be right because after all Christ was a Jew. If Christ was nothing more than a prophet and not the Son of God then the Jews are right. I have a testimony of the divine Sonship of the Savior; therefore, I reject Judism as being the holder of all religious truth as it is thusfar revealed.

The Catholics can be right because they truly have linage back to Peter. This makes intuitive sense. If the Apostacy (taking away of priesthood authority) happened then the Catholics are NOT the true Church of Christ. If the Apostacy did not take place as the LDS belive it did then the Catholics ARE the true Church of Christ. I personally believe with the death of the Apostles NO other person was ordained to lead Christ's church by the laying on of hands with the passing of priesthood authority so I reject the Catholic Church as being the "true Church."

The Mormons can be right because they claim prieshood authority beginning with Christ. All priesthood holders in the LDS Church can trace their line of authority directly to Christ. If you believe an Apostacy took place there must needs be a restoration. If an apostacy took place and there hasn't been a restoration then #4 is valid (there is no authoritive church of Christ on the earth). I happen to believe fervently in the Apostacy and subsequent restoration of Christ's Church; that is why I long ago was baptized into the LDS Church.

I understand it is a hard thing when someone hears another Church say "we are the true church". When Christ comes again He will take the head of His Church. I don't believe that will be any break off of the Catholic Church.

I don't believe the Catholics or the Mormons tell any other denomination they are "damned" to hell as many evangelicals have told me I am because I'm Mormon.

[Son]

Besides God, logic dictates. Either God exists or He does not. If He does, then either He has a Church or He does not. If He does, then He has only one Church else He would be a liar and a respector of persons.

Of course God cares, I was pointing out, that who cares what each leader spouts as what is exclusive, of course they think they have the only ferrari on the block. The path to God is not blocked by anyones assertions of exclusivness.

Membership (and attendance) is required for salvation. Without it, one cannot hear the correct doctrine (Ephesians 4:11-14).

How do you get that from organizing a group in order to spread the gospel to those that don't know about it. Once you know the gospel and get on the path, the church has done its prescribed role. It is now up to the seeker to live it.

Grace IS a free gift. However, one must open and apply the gift in order to have eternal life. The extent of your valiance in obedience, keeping the commandments, doing the ordinances, doing good works etc. is the extent of your salvation.

I agree with that, it is about living the word, not hearing only.

Eternal life means no death to me.

Christ is a divider (Matthew 10:34, Matthew 25:32-46, etc.)

Division is necessary for a season, Christ end goal is oneness.

Amen! It is manifested on earth today as the LDS Church.

Only for those that are Born of God. There may be some in the church, that serve on this plane, ?

Such contradicts the first Bible verse I gave.

It would appear so. But I do not advocate the shunning of church, I advocate not putting it in place of seeking first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, because nothing should take our eyes off of our first love. I took council for a time, and learned in church for a time. It served its purpose, now my church is everywhere present. I don't expect this to be an accepted approach, but my service is better, and actually more effective in presenting the BoM as a non-member. It has happened a number of times after presenting the gospel of Mormon to have people join the local ward. They joined knowing I have not. Strange, but true.

[Maidservant]

We are born. We are in our mother's hands. And our father's hands. Or some substitution thereof. From the point of view of our adulthood, we cannot recall by mind memory anything of that time. For myself, I was self-conscious, self-aware when I was approximately three years old, and I determine that by at least one memory of when I heard of a girl who was going to be turning 4 on her birthday, and I remember being excited for my 4th birthday also, for then I would be "old" .

From the time we are born, and aware to ourselves when we are about 3 years old (and going forward in ages), we are constantly receiving information from our environment.

We could have an interesting discussion about the boundary of "environment" and "self" -- where the boundary is. Most of us would default at the skin of the body. But, for example, our body sends a lot of information also to -- where? to whom? "I"? "brain"? "Self"? "Spirit"? (or is our own spirit still a portion of the environment?) Well, I will use the default boundary in my further discussion.

So then we receive information from the human beings that surround us (including in this age of earth, television). What is the nature of the information (not the content, but the nature)? A variety of natures. We could begin by nomenating these as through the senses -- visual, auditory, touch, etc. -- and again go on for some time (love, etc. . .) in discussion in regards to the media of information. We could also perhaps make a case that the information source is first the mother, then spreads out from there as coming from a wider circle of humans -- Nevertheless, basically stated, this grand collective/(individuated at locale)interaction of "the world" begins to imprint itself on/ interact with the raw material of the infant human being and the growing and developing child human being. We become a young being full of beliefs and belief systems that have been structured directly from the experience of living in our family/ watching television/ attending kindergarten/ joy and trauma.

After growing a bit, we begin receiving information in an additional manner -- other human beings start to TELL us things. They start to EXPLAIN things. We begin to receive information through language -- speech and written. Language is experience folded up into a small boundary that allows re-access to the experience (to the degree the language faithfully and efficaciously records the experience).

All new information that is received either by continuing personal experience or by language/ by records (by reports) enters the belief-structured self and in encountering the belief structures will either strengthen the beliefs or break them or will add one completely new -- there are no other choices. We can talk about spectrum -- we could use words like modify or clarify or whatever, but basically all belief/ information interaction will fall under the three main categories of strengthen or break or brand new. We will keep our original beliefs or we will have different beliefs not the original (in any given realm of belief).

Now, remember, belief is not merely what is stored in brain gray file -- facts and memories. Beliefs are operating within us 100% of the time and motivate all acts -- beliefs are structures that apply to the entire human being, not simply verbally stated tenets we may have opinion on.

Okay, I will call this Part 1. And, yes, I am going somewhere with this, and yes, in my mind at least , it has something to do with the OP.

BTW, Ratatouille was, eh, okay?

[Maidservant]

I, myself, was born to an Endowed woman of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Based upon experience upon experience upon experience with her (experiences that have led to happiness and peace in my self), I can trust the living and the language of this woman. This woman has chosen to live a life within the context of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and to offer to me the language and record of this church.

As I follow my mother TO CHURCH, as I sit in Primary and Young Women's and Seminary and Youth Conference and Especially For Youth and, and, and -- I am exposed to further language and further human lives with which to interact with.

Will have to talk later as I have to take my teenage daughter to her church softball game .

[Tarski]

It would seem so, how many of the motions have you completed?

Quite a few. Too many.

baptism, confirmation, priesthoods, temple (there is a lot in there that I can't elaborate on!), mission, etc.

None of it seems to matter compared to a sincere quest for goodness etc.

[Maidservant]

When I was nine years old, I received this piece of information (through language):

that I was related to God.

That I have a Heavenly Father and that I am his daughter.

I cannot express to you the celebration my heart felt at the moment this fell upon my ears. It was not: "Maybe?" It was: "YES!!"

I also soon learned that I was like my heavenly Father physically and spiritually.

I learned that my life was/ is eternal, that I had been sent to earth by my heavenly Father, and that my earth life had/ has a purpose. I learned that my heavenly Father loves me incomprehensibly (2 Ne 4:21) and that I am precious to him.

I received these pieces of information from my mother and from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I received this information, ultimately, from Joseph Smith, and from Jesus Christ.

From that moment of accepting a belief, or experience a knowing (I think another thread on this board), I have not ever had anyone or anything in between myself and my communication to and from my Father and teaching from Him. I follow my Father.

In my experience with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints -- language and lives -- this point at which I become connected to my Father is what was the desired object of the Church's existence in my life and on the earth in general. (Not the only object, but the main one . . .)

Now, this seems like this could be the end of the story -- what could be greater than knowing your Father?

Well, as mentioned above, it is when the Father is your world, your interaction, your information, the imprinting upon belief, the encounter, the family -- and what happens then? what is found out then? When He says, "This is how you re-enter My presence. This is how you reach the potential of who you really are."

I haven't gotten it all yet. I'm like the rest of all of you -- it is a journey we are all on . But I have had the opportunity to make covenants with the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (beginning with baptism), and I have chosen to make these covenants. I have not found these covenants available anywhere else on earth other than in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; nor do I choose to be covenant-less.

[Maidservant]

"Membership" although a term freely used and one I normally have no problem with -- I can actually see how the concept and definition of "membership" can be useless in some instances of clearly providing shape to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I made a covenant with Jesus Christ (and the Father) at my baptism. As I live this covenant I will receive the promise of this covenant.

ALSO but not CENTRALLY this could be termed a membership in the church. But it is not to be equated with joining a club. It is not even to being equated with surrounding oneself with fellowship and guidance. Again: As the covenant is applied in a human life, the human life will harvest the promise of the covenant. (They are promises offered by God: the Father and the Son.) I also find it personally to be a far cry from "going through the motions".

What is your definition of "being accepted by God"? In my definition of it, I would daresay you would have to do absolutely nothing. I think He thinks you are pretty cool just because you are his child. But perhaps our definitions do not match.

[BCSpace]

Besides God, logic dictates. Either God exists or He does not. If He does, then either He has a Church or He does not. If He does, then He has only one Church else He would be a liar and a respector of persons.

Of course God cares, I was pointing out, that who cares what each leader spouts as what is exclusive,

It happens to be LDS doctrine that we are the only true and God-authorized Church on the face of the earth (D&C 1:30)

of course they think they have the only ferrari on the block.

It's not often that one who has a ferrari is willing to let everyong else drive it.

The path to God is not blocked by anyones assertions of exclusivness.

Of course not. But the path to God is stymied when one does not believe and behave according to God's will. Notice the numerous differing beliefs about the nature of God , His will, and what is and is not sin among those who profess to believe the Bible. This is a sure sign that one cannot come to God using the Bible alone and without his Church.

Membership (and attendance) is required for salvation. Without it, one cannot hear the correct doctrine (Ephesians 4:11-14).

How do you get that from organizing a group in order to spread the gospel to those that don't know about it.

You have just answered your own question. One group was authorized to go and spread the gospel and organize more groups. There was never any indication or plan that multiple denominations were to be organized and accepted. The different churches (locations) answered to the apostles.

Once you know the gospel and get on the path, the church has done its prescribed role. It is now up to the seeker to live it.

Evidence that this is not true are the Biblical injunctions against OSAS (such as 2 Peter 2:20). Notice also in Ephesians 4 that the church organization does not fulfil it's role until we all come in unity of the faith. That still has not happened and never will until Christ comes again.

Eternal life means no death to me.

And that contradicts the Bible. All will be resurrected, both the righteous and the wicked (John 5:29). So everyone lives forever no matter what and that contradicts the notion that one has to believe in Christ to be saved if you believe that living forever means eternal life.

Evidence that living forever does not mean eternal life is found in 1 John 3:15 wherein we see that a murderer has no eternal life (even though we know he gets resurrected and lives forever).

Christ is a divider (Matthew 10:34, Matthew 25:32-46, etc.)

Division is necessary for a season, Christ end goal is oneness.

The season is throughout all of mortality as you can see in Matthew 25 as division is still occuring at the judgement.

Amen! It is manifested on earth today as the LDS Church.

Only for those that are Born of God. There may be some in the church, that serve on this plane, ?

No one who is not a member of the body of Christ (the LDS Church) is born of God. Until one is, one does not believe because one has not followed.

I advocate not putting it in place of seeking first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, because nothing should take our eyes off of our first love.

Neither do we. That we are the only true and God-authorized Church is simply part of the package.

I took council for a time, and learned in church for a time. It served its purpose, now my church is everywhere present. I don't expect this to be an accepted approach, but my service is better, and actually more effective in presenting the BoM as a non-member.

It is not acceptable. Evidence for this is that you are quite unfamiliar with basic doctrine. You are also going against the book you profess to believe in that you do not attend and that you do not partake of the sacrament (which is the renewing of a covenant made at baptism that you have broken).

It has happened a number of times after presenting the gospel of Mormon to have people join the local ward. They joined knowing I have not. Strange, but true.

Well, there is the story of the man who drowned but others were saved because they stood on his shoulders. Completely unnecessary.

[ed2276]

I absolutely respect what the Pope had to say. I was raised a "Southern Baptist". When I no longer believed the things espoused by the Baptist faith I really went "soul searching" to find the truth regarding Christ and His Church.

After much study I concluded that the only possible religious "church" having the fullness of truth was:

1. The Jews

2. The Catholics

3. The Mormons

4. Christ's church does not exist

All other "churches" made and continue to make no sense to me. These "denominations" are nothing more than break offs or break offs of break offs of the Catholic church. If the Catholic Church is truly Christ's church on earth you can't break off from it and be "right." This is simple logic. I don't care if you have Christ in your heart and serve your fellow man everyday if the Catholic Church is indeed Christs Church then so be it.

Back to my study.

The Jews can be right because after all Christ was a Jew. If Christ was nothing more than a prophet and not the Son of God then the Jews are right. I have a testimony of the divine Sonship of the Savior; therefore, I reject Judism as being the holder of all religious truth as it is thusfar revealed.

The Catholics can be right because they truly have linage back to Peter. This makes intuitive sense. If the Apostacy (taking away of priesthood authority) happened then the Catholics are NOT the true Church of Christ. If the Apostacy did not take place as the LDS belive it did then the Catholics ARE the true Church of Christ. I personally believe with the death of the Apostles NO other person was ordained to lead Christ's church by the laying on of hands with the passing of priesthood authority so I reject the Catholic Church as being the "true Church."

The Mormons can be right because they claim prieshood authority beginning with Christ. All priesthood holders in the LDS Church can trace their line of authority directly to Christ. If you believe an Apostacy took place there must needs be a restoration. If an apostacy took place and there hasn't been a restoration then #4 is valid (there is no authoritive church of Christ on the earth). I happen to believe fervently in the Apostacy and subsequent restoration of Christ's Church; that is why I long ago was baptized into the LDS Church.

I understand it is a hard thing when someone hears another Church say "we are the true church". When Christ comes again He will take the head of His Church. I don't believe that will be any break off of the Catholic Church.

I don't believe the Catholics or the Mormons tell any other denomination they are "damned" to hell as many evangelicals have told me I am because I'm Mormon.

Which takes me to the statement reported here :

Elder Orson F. Whitney's pamphlet, The Strength of the Mormon Position.

Many years ago a learned man, a member of the Roman Catholic Church, came to Utah and spoke from the stand of the Salt Lake Tabernacle. I became well-acquainted with him, and we conversed freely and frankly. A great scholar, with perhaps a dozen languages at his tongue's end, he seemed to know all about theology, law, literature, science and philosophy. One day he said to me: "You Mormons are all ignoramuses. You don't even know the strength of your own position. It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church. The issue is between Catholicism and Mormonism. If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong; and that's all there is to it. The Protestants haven't a leg to stand on. For, if we are wrong, they are wrong with us, since they were a part of us and went out from us; while if we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago. If we have the apostolic succession from St. Peter, as we claim, there is no need of Joseph Smith and Mormonism; but if we have not that succession, then such a man as Joseph Smith was necessary, and Mormonism's attitude is the only consistent one. It is either the perpetuation of the gospel from ancient times, or the restoration of the gospel in latter days."

I think this sums it up well.

[MasterMahan]

But doesn't one have to do a special little dance or make special motions or say the right thing?

Ordinances!

One has to have jumped through the magic hoops, said the right magic words, been sprinkled, immersed, touched on the head, clapped one's hands, turned around twice on a Monday, faced east and kneeled on a special rug, stepped on the special ground, etc. etc. and then one has to know the club password. Only then will God accept you. Supreme beings always worry about this stuff.

Kinda like when you take your test with a pen, instead of a no. 2 pencil...oh, wait...don't you then FAIL the test...?

You see, its all about obedience...will we do ALL that we are commanded to do? Just in life, there are rules to follow...regardless of how stupid they may seem to some...

[Maidservant]

People mistake what obedience is, in my opinion.

Obedience does not mean doing what some authority or other says for one to do, and thereby receiving the reward that authority has the power to give. ("Be a good little boy and I'll give you a gold star.") This is a cause and effect two-step conception of obedience and thoroughly wrong and not in accordance with anything I think I have learned in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and scriptures.

Obedience is the opportunity to use our agency and actions to access the laws, principles and powers that our Father in heaven enjoys. It is the Law of the Harvest. Obedience is a seed planted, nourished -- then our selves can grow and become and be created and changed until our full potential is reached. THAT is why it is necessary. Systems of energy require tangible ignition of the system -- keys start car engines; faucets turn on the water from the plumbing system; photons cause plants to grow; ordinances and covenants access godly power. Obedience means a promise of a particular fruit or outcome has been presented to us and we have an opportunity to walk that path or open that door to that promise if we want to.

[Scottie]

I've actually been thinking about this lately.

What if God really couldn't care less what path we use to come to Him, as long as we do it?

[MasterMahan]

Obedience does not mean doing what some authority or other says for one to do, and thereby receiving the reward that authority has the power to give. ("Be a good little boy and I'll give you a gold star.") This is a cause and effect two-step conception of obedience and thoroughly wrong and not in accordance with anything I think I have learned in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and scriptures.

I don't know WHAT you've learn in the LDS church or scripture, because that's EXACTLY what is teaches (Abr 3:25).

And your idea of obedience is pretty, well, 'far out, dude'.

Our agency allows us to freely choose to OBEY the Lord, or not...He has given us that. Yet, he expects us to obey, if we are to have what He has.

[Son]

People mistake what obedience is, in my opinion.

Obedience does not mean doing what some authority or other says for one to do, and thereby receiving the reward that authority has the power to give. ("Be a good little boy and I'll give you a gold star.") This is a cause and effect two-step conception of obedience and thoroughly wrong and not in accordance with anything I think I have learned in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and scriptures.

Obedience is the opportunity to use our agency and actions to access the laws, principles and powers that our Father in heaven enjoys. It is the Law of the Harvest. Obedience is a seed planted, nourished -- then our selves can grow and become and be created and changed until our full potential is reached. THAT is why it is necessary. Systems of energy require tangible ignition of the system -- keys start car engines; faucets turn on the water from the plumbing system; photons cause plants to grow; ordinances and covenants access godly power. Obedience means a promise of a particular fruit or outcome has been presented to us and we have an opportunity to walk that path or open that door to that promise if we want to.

Your on a roll sister, (if I may call you sister)?

This is something I can sink my teeth into. The process of the divine nature. That is the obedience factor.

Living the promises. Amen!

[MasterMahan]

I've actually been thinking about this lately.

What if God really couldn't care less what path we use to come to Him, as long as we do it?

Does the professor care how his students pass the test, as long as they pass?? And I'm talking about an upstanding, moral professor that is actually trying to TEACH his students...