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Can An Illegal Alien In Utah Get A Temple Recommend?


karl61

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One could argue that it's not one of the questions, but I believe that question falls under the jurisdiction of several of the actual questions. I believe the Church would be wrong to give a TR to a known and/or confessed illegal immigrant in or of any country.

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sorry <_< new here :P

I'll do search first from now on.

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sorry <_< new here :P

I'll do search first from now on.

No, no, no...that wasn't a criticism. :angry: It was a hat-tip :ph34r: .

Rather than pounding you for a "dead horse", I figured you'd be interested in the earlier topics, since they touch on the issue you raised.

If I'd wanted to pound on you, I'd have threatened to report you to the mods, called you an anti, or accused you of being a sock-puppet.

There's a certain stylized process to it- kinda like a minuet or a waltz without the grace, the exertion, or the pretty women. :unsure:

Welcome to the boards! :blink:

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So, what kind of aliens are we talking about, exactly? What planet are they from? Could Max Evans get a temple recommend so that he could marry Liz Parker in the temple?

I'm sure the Federal Government has a plan for UFO's. Some "fiery chariots" :P will likely come sweeping down again in the last days.

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I served an immigrant mission (I spoke Portuguese in Miami) and pretty much everyone was illegal, but they still went to the temple. I even translated a couple of temple recommend interviews in the American ward that the Brazilians went to, and the illegality question never came up.

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I served an immigrant mission (I spoke Portuguese in Miami) and pretty much everyone was illegal, but they still went to the temple. I even translated a couple of temple recommend interviews in the American ward that the Brazilians went to, and the illegality question never came up.

Which ward & when?

<-From Miami.

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Which ward & when?

<-From Miami.

I was in the Brazilian branch for six months in Miami (it was in the Spanish Stake), then I went to Boca Raton for a year where the Brazilians met in an English ward, then back to Miami. I was there March 99 - 01. Miami was a fantastic place, I need to go back.

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You have to understand that people who are in this country illegally do not consider it sinful or dishonest (particularly when they haven't stolen or misused anyone's identification or such). They see it like Columbus coming to the Americas or any number of previous immigrants. For many they came with parents who are undocumented, with no say so. And it is also easy to believe that even though the country says they are illegal, they use illegal immigrants to perform labor that otherwise wouldn't get done and that americans do not like to do.

I do not pretend to know how God views their presence in a country illegally. But I can really understand how someone who is an otherwise law abiding citizen could answer the temple recommend questions and receive one without any more concern than those who exceed the speed limits.

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Perhaps those who break the traffic laws by speeding also should be denied recommends. Unfortunately some of them don't really think they are breaking the law either. SO, we'll just have to expand the temple recommend list of questions to include every law on the books....

Or maybe the Church should continue to honor and sustain the law by encouraging its members to obey the law and leave enforcement of the law to secular authorities...

-SlackTime

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If we can ignore the "honest in your dealings with your fellow man" portion of the interview, why don't we just do away with the pesky word of wisdom?

Come to think of it, one of the questions is this:

6. Do you affiliate with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or do you sympathize with the precepts of any such group or individual?

Does that include the homosexual and abortion defending democrats??

Sargon

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If we can ignore the "honest in your dealings with your fellow man" portion of the interview, why don't we just do away with the pesky word of wisdom?

Come to think of it, one of the questions is this:

Does that include the homosexual and abortion defending democrats??

Sargon

Amazingly enough, just as I have never been asked to prove I was a full tithe payor, I have never been challenged if I said I was honest with my fellow man. The Bishop never said; "SlackTime, I know you work at Honest Sams Used car lot so there is no way I'm going to pass you for honesty" Also, when I say I obey the word of wisdom, the statement is taken at face value, they've never said "Open your mouth I want to smell your breath and check your teeth for coffee stains". Being republican, I can believe they may disqualify someone for being a Democrat, but I've never heard of such a case... :P

-SlackTime

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I know of missionaries in my mission who were illegal (including a Canadian, but mostly Mexican) and illegals in Miami who left on their missions. They all stayed in the US so they wouldnâ??t have border problems. One missionary was scared to go home because he was afraid of flying since he had no papers. There was a family in my stake who had a son on his mission and they were deported. He got deported too and had to have his mission reassigned to his country. So I know that illegals can serve missions.

Miami, or Hialeah Stake?

I believe the Miami Stake, but I donâ??t know if the Brazilian branch is still around. There was talk of ending it.

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Karl, here is an article that came out a couple years back that answers your question:

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635153068,00.html

Here's an excerpt that shows the present policy on how to approach this situation in regards to temple recommends :

The LDS Church has no formal position on illegal immigration. "We leave those matters to civil authorities," spokesman Dale Bills said.

"This isn't the church's issue," said Elder Pingree, who served as a mission president in Mexico City. "This is the government's issue."

Some Latter-day Saints question the church's baptizing converts and issuing temple privileges to members who are in the country illegally. Potential templegoers must avow to a bishop that they are honest in their dealings with others. Some members can't reconcile church membership and illegal status.

"It's not a problem for me," Pingree said. He made clear that immigration enforcement "is not the role of the church."

Church leaders do not ascertain potential converts' citizenship prior to baptism or temple attendance. They look for commitment to live the tenets of the religion, Pingree says.

The church, he says, does everything it can to encourage its members to stay in their home countries to strengthen local stakes and wards. "But once they're here, we want to make them feel like part of the community, a valued part of the community," Pingree said.

To that end, the church formed a Hispanic Initiative several years ago to help members adjust to life in America. It provides for English classes, helps fund a free health clinic and facilitates pro bono legal services through a law society.

"There's a huge unmet need in this community," Pingree said.

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Karl, here is an article that came out a couple years back that answers your question:

Here's an excerpt that shows the present policy on how to approach this situation in regards to temple recommends :

The LDS Church has no formal position on illegal immigration. "We leave those matters to civil authorities," spokesman Dale Bills said.

"This isn't the church's issue," said Elder Pingree, who served as a mission president in Mexico City. "This is the government's issue."

Some Latter-day Saints question the church's baptizing converts and issuing temple privileges to members who are in the country illegally. Potential templegoers must avow to a bishop that they are honest in their dealings with others. Some members can't reconcile church membership and illegal status.

"It's not a problem for me," Pingree said. He made clear that immigration enforcement "is not the role of the church."

Church leaders do not ascertain potential converts' citizenship prior to baptism or temple attendance. They look for commitment to live the tenets of the religion, Pingree says.

The church, he says, does everything it can to encourage its members to stay in their home countries to strengthen local stakes and wards. "But once they're here, we want to make them feel like part of the community, a valued part of the community," Pingree said.

To that end, the church formed a Hispanic Initiative several years ago to help members adjust to life in America. It provides for English classes, helps fund a free health clinic and facilitates pro bono legal services through a law society.

"There's a huge unmet need in this community," Pingree said.

Thank you! :P

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So it's like, "No don't come, stay in your own country; but if you decide to come anyway, we'll let's bring on the welcoming committee."

If that's not a mixed message, I don't know what is.

I hope taxes are also on the cutting block where the Church says it does not get involved ...it's a government issue - the church would likely say a u.s citizen take services and is protected by military and such so you need to pay taxes. ( I know your response lol)

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Looks like I got mixed up with the different anti-immigrant threads.

Anyways, for as much as we try to sustain the laws of the land, that is not an absolute. I'll point to the time since the Edmunds and then the Edmunds-Tucker acts (anti-polygamy laws targetting the Church). Clearly the Church had good reason to not use that as a measure to deny someone membership or a Temple reccomend, as those laws made it illegal to either enter plural marriage or even cohabitate with a plural wife married before the law was passed. Even after the second Manifesto (1904) the Church would not deny a Temple recommend to a husband who was still cohabitating with his wives. Only those entering new plural marriages were excommunicated, and that only came after the Manifesto, not the anti-polygamy laws.

I believe (and you can disagree with me all you like) that the immigration laws in place are unjust, unreasonable, and if they could be enforced, such enforcement would have catastrophic effects. Apparently the Church's view of this is more in line with my view than that of America's xenophobes.

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Looks like I got mixed up with the different anti-immigrant threads.

Anyways, for as much as we try to sustain the laws of the land, that is not an absolute. I'll point to the time since the Edmunds and then the Edmunds-Tucker acts (anti-polygamy laws targetting the Church). Clearly the Church had good reason to not use that as a measure to deny someone membership or a Temple reccomend, as those laws made it illegal to either enter plural marriage or even cohabitate with a plural wife married before the law was passed. Even after the second Manifesto (1904) the Church would not deny a Temple recommend to a husband who was still cohabitating with his wives. Only those entering new plural marriages were excommunicated, and that only came after the Manifesto, not the anti-polygamy laws.

I believe (and you can disagree with me all you like) that the immigration laws in place are unjust, unreasonable, and if they could be enforced, such enforcement would have catastrophic effects. Apparently the Church's view of this is more in line with my view than that of America's xenophobes.

Xenophobes? Don't you think that is a bit of hyperbole? I mean , just take a look at the ethnicities and national origins which are represented here in the United States currently and in on-going legal immigration populations and you will see that those opposed to illegal immigration , but in favor of legal immigration are anything but xenophobes.

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