Amazing Acquisition

[e=mc2]

I just acquired, tonight, R. H. Charles "Book of Enoch," the 2nd reworking of his first work, far more extensive in details and notes and comparative literatures. The real GEM in this lil baby is the Greek text as Appendix 1 of the Book of Enoch. I've never seen, let alone owned it. And it's complete with textual apparatus and Patristic citations, notes, commentary, you name it, he threw it all in here. The ultimate charmer is my local used bookstore sold it to me for a whopping $3......WOO-LUVIN-HOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As an added bonus to my wonderful evening, I acquired David M. Hay, "Glory at the Right Hand: Psalm 110 in Early Christianity," from the Society of Biblical Literature Monograph Series, and Frederick Field, "Notes on the Translation of the New Testament, Being the Otium Norvicense (pars tertia)." In other words I mopped up baby! GRIN!

[charity]

Kerry, you make me want to stick my head in a drawer. I could not even begin to get anything out of those books on my own. Please, as you come across gems, post them in ordinary language. Thanks in advance.

[e=mc2]

I will be more than glad to, of course. I also am in the planning stages of an ENORMOUS series of podcasts elaborating and explaining the Books of Enoch.......... hence my excitement!

The very FIRST thing Charles says is that Enoch is scripture, to some early Christian groups, and is considered scripture by some New Testament authors. It is going to be a fun series of podcasts.

Best,

Kerry

[charity]

I am so internet challenged. How does one access podcasts? (I don't even know what they are.)

[structurecop]

I just acquired, tonight, R. H. Charles "Book of Enoch," the 2nd reworking of his first work, far more extensive in details and notes and comparative literatures. The real GEM in this lil baby is the Greek text as Appendix 1 of the Book of Enoch. I've never seen, let alone owned it. And it's complete with textual apparatus and Patristic citations, notes, commentary, you name it, he threw it all in here. The ultimate charmer is my local used bookstore sold it to me for a whopping $3......WOO-LUVIN-HOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As an added bonus to my wonderful evening, I acquired David M. Hay, "Glory at the Right Hand: Psalm 110 in Early Christianity," from the Society of Biblical Literature Monograph Series, and Frederick Field, "Notes on the Translation of the New Testament, Being the Otium Norvicense (pars tertia)." In other words I mopped up baby! GRIN!

I wasn't aware that books were sold in Idaho, let alone anything from SBL. Congrats on a good night of shopping. I imagine it's kind of how I felt when I found the Aland-Aland Novum Testamentum Graece at Savers for .99. When I was checking out the lady behind the counter first asked if it was in Spanish and then wondered aloud why they were selling ratty old Bibles.

I am so internet challenged. How does one access podcasts? (I don't even know what they are.)

They fall out of space and if you're lucky enough, one will land in your back yard. Then they open up and an alien life form emerges.

Wait, no, that's pod people.

[Hammer]

Don't feel bad Charity, I had to ask my son what and how.

Kerry, I really am enthusiastic about your work.

[Dave Ellis]

Hey Kerry,

I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts/podcasts on all this. The Enoch traditions are kind of my main focus right now (as a history major, not gospel-wise) and I'm always eager to hear what other LDS think about it. It's nice to finally encounter someone else who gets excited about this stuff.

It always seemed strange to me that Enoch hasn't received more attention in Church circles. When I was teaching the New Testament course in seminary, I ended up having to photocopy pages out of Nickelsburg/VanderKam's 1 Enoch for the class. Apparently this is all so obscure in LDS thought these days that the CES wasn't aware that most of Jude is a direct quotation =(

I'd be very interested to know what you think of the Watcher issue... where do you stand on the whole fallen angel/offpspring topic? Truth, interpolation or metaphor?

Regards,

Dave

[PacMan]

structurecop,

You sick-o. I can't believe that you would lower yourself to such a dismal standard to pretend your interest in scholarly works for your own gratifications! You are a simple embarrassment to the scholastic community, and I consider any of your future posts as but morsels of chronic degradation. How many unsuspecting victims were there?

When I was checking out the lady behind the counter first....

PacMan

Proof-texting at its finest

[consiglieri]

I'd be very interested to know what you think of the Watcher issue... where do you stand on the whole fallen angel/offpspring topic? Truth, interpolation or metaphor?

Regards,

Dave

One of the things I find interesting about PGP Enoch is that, though not elaborated on, the fallen angels (i.e., "Watchers") are alluded to, as well as the good angels. Two groups of angels descending from heaven are described; the first group of angels causes "wo" to the inhabitants of the earth and is associated with Satan; the second group of angels is associated with the Father, Son and Holy Ghost and with people being caught up to heaven.

And he saw angels descending out of heaven; and he heard a loud voice saying: Wo, wo be unto the inhabitants of the earth.

And he beheld Satan; and he had a great chain in his hand, and it veiled the whole face of the earth with darkness; and he looked up and laughed, and his angels rejoiced.

And Enoch beheld angels descending out of heaven, bearing testimony of the Father and Son; and the Holy Ghost fell on many, and they were caught up by the powers of heaven into Zion. (Moses 7:25-27)

The theme of fallen angels being so basic to Enochic literature, I find this an interesting aspect of PGP Moses.

Also, the giants, though not elaborated upon, are never far off-stage in PGP Enoch:

And the giants of the land, also, stood afar off; and there went forth a curse upon all people that fought against God;

And from that time forth there were wars and bloodshed among them. (Moses 7:15-16a)

This warfare between the giants, who themselves are the offspring of the fallen angels is, of course, so fundamentally Enochic that it is striking to find it in Joseph Smith's revelations.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[Son]

From what I have heard the Book of Enoch has never been taken out of the Ethiopic Bible. Have you heard the same?

I gave my copy to my brother, I'll have to borrow it back to follow along with your series.

son

[katherine the great]

I wasn't aware that books were sold in Idaho, let alone anything from SBL.

Yup! Imagine that! In some places we even have indoor plumbing and a crude form of automobile!

[Zakuska]

My cousins say they use Portatoes for roller skates up there.

[structurecop]

structurecop,

You sick-o. I can't believe that you would lower yourself to such a dismal standard to pretend your interest in scholarly works for your own gratifications! You are a simple embarrassment to the scholastic community, and I consider any of your future posts as but morsels of chronic degradation. How many unsuspecting victims were there?

PacMan

Proof-texting at its finest

In retrospect, I should have placed a comma. It's part of the 1,459 changes I've made to my prior posts which prove I'm a fraud. However, it should not be misconstrued as evidence that I have been using Savers as a place to troll for chicks, nor that I have been engaged in similar activities at Barnes and Noble, Borders, ASU bookstore, BYU bookstore, Deseret Book, Seagull...

[Warship]

Consiglieri,

One of the things I find interesting about PGP Enoch is that, though not elaborated on, the fallen angels (i.e., "Watchers") are alluded to, as well as the good angels. Two groups of angels descending from heaven are described; the first group of angels causes "wo" to the inhabitants of the earth and is associated with Satan; the second group of angels is associated with the Father, Son and Holy Ghost and with people being caught up to heaven.

And he saw angels descending out of heaven; and he heard a loud voice saying: Wo, wo be unto the inhabitants of the earth.

And he beheld Satan; and he had a great chain in his hand, and it veiled the whole face of the earth with darkness; and he looked up and laughed, and his angels rejoiced.

And Enoch beheld angels descending out of heaven, bearing testimony of the Father and Son; and the Holy Ghost fell on many, and they were caught up by the powers of heaven into Zion. (Moses 7:25-27)

The theme of fallen angels being so basic to Enochic literature, I find this an interesting aspect of PGP Moses.

Also, the giants, though not elaborated upon, are never far off-stage in PGP Enoch:

And the giants of the land, also, stood afar off; and there went forth a curse upon all people that fought against God;

And from that time forth there were wars and bloodshed among them. (Moses 7:15-16a)

This warfare between the giants, who themselves are the offspring of the fallen angels is, of course, so fundamentally Enochic that it is striking to find it in Joseph Smith's revelations.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Angels descending from heaven and giants?

Much of this theme is similar to Genesis 6 which would be easily accesible to JS

[1] And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

[2] That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

[3] And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

[4] There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

[5] And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

[6] And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

[7] And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Afterall in the PGP Noah is a descendant of Enoch and recieves special attention in Enoch's vision...

Moses7:43

Enoch saw that Noah built an ark..etc

and that Noah would be of Enoch's seed... 8:2.

There are some impressive things in Moses, but this particular aspect does not seem beyond JS' resources.

[consiglieri]

You may be right about this, Warship.

The "wars and bloodshed among them," though, seems different from the Genesis version and I think finds support in the Enochic materials.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[Warship]

Consiglieri,

The "wars and bloodshed among them," though, seems different from the Genesis version and I think finds support in the Enochic materials.

I agree, but the same passage in Genesis does speak of widespread violence ...

Gen6

[11] The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

[12] And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

[13] And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

Take it Easy.