Egyptologist Using Hebrew To Explain

[e=mc2]

I was asked to find Nibley's mention of the Egyptologist Alexander Piankoff saying the Hebrew words explaining the Egyptian meanings. I found it.

It's in the tape recorded lectures from FARMS, 1990, Tape 10, 2nd side, about 2/3 the way through. Here is what Nibley noted.

Figure 4 in the facsimile 2 is the Sokar ship, the sun ship. The 2 outstretched wings were seen as symbolic of the sky. "Piankoff, when he studies this in King Tut's Tomb, he says 'this can best be described by the Hebrew word Raqia, the idea of the expanse of the starry heavens.' The same Hebrew word that Joseph Smith uses to express this." Nibley also noted the comb of King Djed which shows the same figure, and which other Egyptologists have mentioned signifies the starry heavens. The hawk with the outstretched wings is Sokar, the God of the sky, or the starry heavens.

Best,

Kerry

[cdowis]

Just another coincidence, I suppose.

[charity]

Another in the column of Joseph Smith's "lucky guesses."

[e=mc2]

Yes, but the neat thing is, statistically, after approximately 123,523,768,456,245,200,000,000,000 lucky guesses we are almost close to closing in on an actuality........HA! Now think about THAT one!

[Zakuska]

I find it quite telling that the Anti-BOA nay sayers are particularly silent on this thread. :BLUSH:

[Hammer]

I find it quite telling that the Anti-BOA nay sayers are particularly silent on this thread. :BLUSH:

They can't come to the truth, though ever learning (from all the anti-material) . Any wonder?

[Chris Smith]

Interesting, Kerry. I'm running to the Sac State library anyway tomorrow, so I'll probably pick up a copy of Piankoff's book and see if I can locate this reference. If I remember to do so (I just wrote myself a note, so hopefully I won't forget), I will photocopy the page and post a scan of it here. (I think that qualifies as fair use, and won't pose a copyright problem. Correct me if I'm wrong.)

[Zakuska]

*Chirp* *Chirp* *Chirp*

[cksalmon]

I was asked to find Nibley's mention of the Egyptologist Alexander Piankoff saying the Hebrew words explaining the Egyptian meanings. I found it.

It's in the tape recorded lectures from FARMS, 1990, Tape 10, 2nd side, about 2/3 the way through. Here is what Nibley noted.

Figure 4 in the facsimile 2 is the Sokar ship, the sun ship. The 2 outstretched wings were seen as symbolic of the sky. "Piankoff, when he studies this in King Tut's Tomb, he says 'this can best be described by the Hebrew word Raqia, the idea of the expanse of the starry heavens.' The same Hebrew word that Joseph Smith uses to express this." Nibley also noted the comb of King Djed which shows the same figure, and which other Egyptologists have mentioned signifies the starry heavens. The hawk with the outstretched wings is Sokar, the God of the sky, or the starry heavens.

Best,

Kerry

Thanks Kerry. Appreciated.

--------------------------------

I find it quite telling that the Anti-BOA nay sayers are particularly silent on this thread. [Posted Yesterday, 10:32 PM]

That works out to, I believe, 1:32 AM in my neck of the woods, Chief. I was in bed before Kerry created this thread.

What I find interesting is the assumption inherent in your response here that the only possible reasons for intereacting with others here is either to cheerlead or to condemn. I happen to be very interested in BoA threads and knew this reference would spark one. Your chirp-chirp-chirp gloating is just silly, Zak.

[Smith]

Your chirp-chirp-chirp gloating is just silly, Zak.

Or maybe he was just indicating the crickets chirping at night and the people therefore sleeping and therefore not much to be expected in the way of response.... at least thats the way I saw it.

[Zakuska]

Indeed Smith. I was merely bumping the thread from off the second page otherwise the slumbering CKSalmon would nary have noticed the excellent thread.

[Olavarria]

I love CK Salmon and California Kid

[cksalmon]

I love CK Salmon and California Kid

HA--

Thanks! I'm rather fond of you, too. Or at least your online persona.

I'm hoping that if CK can get the scan uploaded along with the exact text from the quote from Piankoff, you, CK, Kerry, and the other BoA talking heads can entertain the rest of us for awhile.

Yes, it's a small life, but it's mine.

Best to you.

CKS

[David Bokovoy]

Is this the reference?:

The shrines of Tut-Ankh-Amon; texts translated with introductions by Alexandre Piankoff. Edited by N. Rambova.[New York] Pantheon Books [1955]

[Chris Smith]

That's the reference I looked up, David, but I regret to inform everybody that I spent roughly an hour and a half skimming over every word of Piankoff commentary in that book (it was mostly direct translations and illustrations, but Piankoff contributed introductions, descriptions, captions, and footnotes) and di not find what Nibley was referring to. I'm 95% certain it is not in this book. Perhaps Nibley got it from another work by Piankoff, or maybe in the heat of the moment he mixed up his references.

Piankoff did provide images of similar sun barge vignettes with owls in them, did associate the wings with Nut, did mention that Nut is the sky goddess, and did mention stars in connection with vignettes similar to this one (I forget what was said exactly). But no Hebrew.

-CK

[David Bokovoy]

That's the reference I looked up, David, but I regret to inform everybody that I spent roughly an hour and a half skimming over every word of Piankoff commentary in that book (it was mostly direct translations and illustrations, but Piankoff contributed introductions, descriptions, captions, and footnotes) and di not find what Nibley was referring to. I'm 95% certain it is not in this book. Perhaps Nibley got it from another work by Piankoff, or maybe in the heat of the moment he mixed up his references.

Piankoff did provide images of similar sun barge vignettes with owls in them, did associate the wings with Nut, did mention that Nut is the sky goddess, and did mention stars in connection with vignettes similar to this one (I forget what was said exactly). But no Hebrew.

-CK

Thanks, CK, for going to so much effort. The Shrines of Tut-Ankh-Amon would have been my first guess.

I'm not an Egyptologist, so this is outside of my realm, but the only other thing I can think of would be The wandering of the soul. Texts translated with commentary by Alexandre Piankoff. Completed and prepared for publication by Helen Jacquet-Gordon.

Imprint [Princeton, N.J.] Princeton University Press [1974].

I'll check it out tomorrow, but I have my doubts.

--David

[Olavarria]

That's the reference I looked up, David, but I regret to inform everybody that I spent roughly an hour and a half skimming over every word of Piankoff commentary in that book (it was mostly direct translations and illustrations, but Piankoff contributed introductions, descriptions, captions, and footnotes) and di not find what Nibley was referring to. I'm 95% certain it is not in this book. Perhaps Nibley got it from another work by Piankoff, or maybe in the heat of the moment he mixed up his references.

Piankoff did provide images of similar sun barge vignettes with owls in them, did associate the wings with Nut, did mention that Nut is the sky goddess, and did mention stars in connection with vignettes similar to this one (I forget what was said exactly). But no Hebrew.

-CK

could you please type pout a quote?

[Chris Smith]

Sorry Her Amun, I didn't check it out. I just gave it a look-see while I was at the library. Checking it out would have required checking it back in, which would have required yet another day-trip to downtown Sacramento, yet another $5 parking fee, and yet another long walk to and from the library. Plus I'd have had to get a membership card.

[e=mc2]

Rats. THANKS for your efforts. I don't personally have the Piankoff reference either darn it. And Nibley was talking to an audience and going quite fast, so he just mentioned Piankoff but didn't give the exact reference. I thought it was the reference that David B. mentioned also. If memory serves me right (hold yer breathes ) the BYU library has Piankoff's book. Anyone in Provo wanna do a public service and find where Nibley was quoting it?

[Olavarria]

Sorry Her Amun, I didn't check it out. I just gave it a look-see while I was at the library. Checking it out would have required checking it back in, which would have required yet another day-trip to downtown Sacramento, yet another $5 parking fee, and yet another long walk to and from the library. Plus I'd have had to get a membership card.

oh/.............no worries mate

[Zakuska]

CK,

You wouldn't by chance own a tweed Jacket?

[Chris Smith]

uh... no...

?

[Kenngo1969]

That's the reference I looked up, David, but I regret to inform everybody that I spent roughly an hour and a half skimming over every word of Piankoff commentary in that book (it was mostly direct translations and illustrations, but Piankoff contributed introductions, descriptions, captions, and footnotes) and di not find what Nibley was referring to. I'm 95% certain it is not in this book. Perhaps Nibley got it from another work by Piankoff, or maybe in the heat of the moment he mixed up his references.

Yeah, like, we all know, like, how sloppy Nibley was with his footnotes (90-percent plus completely fabricated, according to such eminently reliable sources as Martha Beck!) Iâ??m, like, sure thatâ??s it!

(Ken said, as though he were thoroughly convinced â?¦ )

You wouldn't by chance own a tweed Jacket?

ROFLMREO, ROFLMREO, ROFLMREO, ROFLMREO, ROFLMREO !!!

[sigh!]

[Tears Roll!]

[Another Wave of Laughter Hits]

ROFLMREO, ROFLMREO, ROFLMREO, ROFLMREO, ROFLMREO !!!

Good thing itâ??s too early for my morning Coke, or I woulda spit it at the screen! That was priceless!

[Kenngo1969]

uh... no...

?

Confused, I see, eh Kid? Google "Martha Beck" and "man in tweed." The mysterious, uncredited, anonymous, (non-existent? ) "man in tweed" is the (invented?) source allegedly responsible for the accusation in Martha Nibley Beck's book, Leaving My Sanitâ??, er, I mean, Leaving The Saints that 90-plus percent of Hugh Nibley's footnotes were "completely fabricated."

[Jerubaal]

Rats. THANKS for your efforts. I don't personally have the Piankoff reference either darn it. And Nibley was talking to an audience and going quite fast, so he just mentioned Piankoff but didn't give the exact reference. I thought it was the reference that David B. mentioned also. If memory serves me right (hold yer breathes ) the BYU library has Piankoff's book. Anyone in Provo wanna do a public service and find where Nibley was quoting it?

Yeah, sure. Maybe I can even find Nibley's copy in the ancient studies room. I might not look for it today though, since I have to study for a midterm this afternoon.