Should Mormons Include Weapons In Their Preparedness?

[Cold Steel]

Latter-day Saints are told to have food and medical supplies, and plenty of drinking water and water for cleansing. This not only is for natural disasters like hurricanes, earthquakes and so forth, but is part of our preparedness for a time when the government is no longer able to sustain order. In 1992, Hurricane Andrew was a perfect example of large communities having no police or medical services. Many people, in fact, wrote: "Armed. Will shoot to kill!" and similar warnings scrawled on their homes.

That wasn't the only disaster that year. In April the L.A. riots swept through one of the most populated areas in the U.S. According to one report:

As the city burned, movie stars fled and politicians buried their heads in the sand, hoping the crisis would go away. Many middle-class citizens, watching the carnage on their television sets, rushed to gun shops to purchase firearms. They quicky learned that because of a 15-day waiting period, their own government had made it impossible for them to protect themselves. The law-abiding poor had little hopeâ??as the riots became more widespread and violent, Chief Daryl Gates ordered the cops to retreat.

Calls for help came in to 911 by the hundreds. But citizens were informed that no assistance was available. Order had broken down. People were on their own.

On the streets, law-abiding citizens were being beaten, robbed, and murdered in an orgy of rage. Much of the violence was racially motivated, as exemplified by the brutal attack on Reginald Denny. While cameras rolled, the white truck driver was dragged from the cab of his big-rig and beaten senseless. He was saved only after a small group of courageous blacks defied the mob and rushed him to a hospital.

One gun store owner later testified: â??I stood on the roof of the Lucky Electronics [store] across the street from our gun shop, along with several other neighbors. I had a 12-guage riot shotgun and a Beretta 92F pistol. Another employee had a Colt AR-15 Sporter rifle. We called the police for help, but they never came. Some looters tried to break down the door of the gun store, but we fired warning shots that drove them away. This happened many times, and before it was over, we fired 200 rounds of ammunition.â?

On 9/11, there also was much to consider. Author Robert Walters noted: â??Americans quickly sensed that something had changed. They understood that the security they thought they'd bought with outrageous taxes was only a mirage. Even those who had never thought of owning a gun began to rethink their positions. As the owner of a Florida gun shop said, 'People who were against guns or were against keeping guns in their homes, those are the people coming in....'"

Brigham Young said: â??If we are not ready for any enemy when he comes upon us, we have not lived up to the requirements of Him who guides the ship of Zion, or who dictates the affairs of His kingdom.â? He also reminded the saints that when gathering their supplies, to remember to have enough ammunition, noting that firearms without ammunition were of little worth.

Now, however, the church never mentions weapons or self protection. Is it prudent to depend upon God for our protection or should we have weapons with our food and medical supplies? The pioneers had firearms and most of the early saints of this dispensation. In fact, about the only Mormons who didn't have weapons were the ones murdered at Haun's Mill.

In a society that has no food, police or medical service, especially in times of civil unrest, should we only trust in the Lord, or should we be prepared to defend ourselves and our families?

[Zakuska]

Oh Great... now he's advocating anoyther WACO.

[charity]

When looters were running wild, they weren't in residential neighborhoods.

[structurecop]

When looters were running wild, they weren't in residential neighborhoods.

Ever heard of Watts?

[Irondukesteve]

That is a great idea and totally practical. If the man next door has children who are starving and he notices that you are still fat and happy he is gonna do whatever he can to get food for his children.

Thumbs up for weapons.....any suggestions on what weapons would be best?

[structurecop]

That is a great idea and totally practical. If the man next door has children who are starving and he notices that you are still fat and happy he is gonna do whatever he can to get food for his children.

Thumbs up for weapons.....any suggestions on what weapons would be best?

I recommend something that uses ammunition that is readily available -- 7.62 or 5.56 for rifles, 9mm or .40 caliber for pistols.

[Catholic Guy]

I would have to say that an armed society is a polite society!

My 2cents

Catholic Guy

[Mordecai]

Latter-day Saints are told to have food and medical supplies, and plenty of drinking water and water for cleansing. This not only is for natural disasters like hurricanes, earthquakes and so forth, but is part of our preparedness for a time when the government is no longer able to sustain order. In 1992, Hurricane Andrew was a perfect example of large communities having no police or medical services. Many people, in fact, wrote: "Armed. Will shoot to kill!" and similar warnings scrawled on their homes.

In a society that has no food, police or medical service, especially in times of civil unrest, should we only trust in the Lord, or should we be prepared to defend ourselves and our families?

I use my sex appeal as a weapon. Also sarcasm is good.

[mocnarf]

Having weapons in the home can be dangers if they are not stored and secured properly especially when young children are in the home. Personally, I think every person should take a coarse on basic weapon safety and be familierized with the use and care of the weapons.

.

If the balloon goes up.... We will all be wishing that the Bishops storehouse had an armory !

[Sethbag]

In the short term, having a few day's or a couple weeks' worth of food will be quite helpful. If the whole society disintegrates, however, and the government completely falls apart, and we're talking about mass anarchy and complete breakdown, we're all screwed no matter what you do. The fact is that we as a society cannot feed ourselves anymore without huge industrial farms and animal farms, lots of oil and fuel and vehicles for growing this stuff, for processing this stuff, and for transporting this stuff long distances, etc. In the kind of situation of societal collapse some people envision, there is no other possible result than mass starvation.

What, you say? You'll go out into the woods and hunt? Friends, 150 years ago there were far fewer deer and game in our forests than their are now because a population a fraction of our size today relied somewhat more on game for food than we do. Just how much game is required to sustain a city of several million people? We are all fools if we think we'll hunt to survive, because within weeks of the societal breakdown and collapse every 4-legged critter the country will already have been consumed.

What would we plant? We have no seed anymore. With what would we improvise tools? We've lost all the arts of woodworking and making things with natural products that our ancestors developed over millenia. We literally couldn't revert back to a subsistence farming lifestyle because we don't have the materials necessary, and we don't know how.

Within a week or two of total societal collapse and breakdown of the national power grid and transportation system, the cities will be mostly emptied because all of their water relies on electricity and pumps to flow, so people will exodus from the cities in search of food and water in the outlying areas, and in the wilderness areas, and so forth. The rate of death to starvation and thirst will be unbelievable.

Yeah, if you have your "year's supply" and your guns, you might kill a few people who tried to take it from you, but when they're dead, and everyone else without a year's supply is more or less gone too, you'll come out of your little compound and... then what? There won't be a job to go back to, you'll be stuck trying to find a way to eak out a subsistence in a society suddenly thrust back into the stone age, but without the benefit of generations worth of wisdom regarding methods of survival that our ancestors had, but have now all been forgotten. You'll have no seed, no fertilizer, possibly no running water unless you live by a stream or river (and they aren't polluted), you'll have no animals like horses or cows to harness and use for farming (since these were all eaten by the last people to die of starvation, or will be as soon as the few survivors out there discover you have them). The game is gone, so you're not going to live full-time on deer or elk or whatever. No siree, because within 100 miles of you there were two or three cities totalling a few million people, and they already combed what woods you live near and killed and ate anything that walked, crawled, or flew, before nearly all of them died of starvation.

Yeah, so ok, go ahead and buy guns so you'll be fine when the end of the world happens. Much good may they do you.

I should note, for the record, that I used to think like this, and I do in fact own probably more than my share of handguns, rifles, and shotguns. I once fancied that someday they might help us survive in a post-apocolyptic world. Not anymore. I keep them because I like guns, I enjoy going shooting and such. But I harbor no such fantasies. A post-apocolyptic world is a world, for the most part, without human beings. And me owning guns won't change that. Survival in a post-apocolyptic world is something I'm not sure I'd even wish to endure. We are far too reliant on technology, mass transportation, and energy from oil and the like now, as a species. We literally don't know how to do without it.

[Zakuska]

What would Jesus do?

[Jolard]

What would Jesus do?

Exactly.

I know I will be up on my roof shooting starving neighbors. Sounds incredibly Christ like to me!

[grego]

Thanks for treading where no man dared tread before... (mods, keep it open, please!)

Similar to the "martial arts" threads.

I don't think it would just be for the future. Right now, if I were to call 911 because a man on drugs was breaking into my house, I would in all likelihood have to play hide and seek or kill him to avoid death to myself or my family. Either that, or pray really hard.

I depend on prayer for everything, and it's worked very well so far.

Good question.

Have the Saints ever used weapons to defend themselves? Other than the _ Creek episode?

Will the Lord continue to fight the Saints' battles, individually and collectively?

Obviously (to me) the brethren wouldn't ever say anything, even if they wanted us to buy guns and ammo.

I'd make it a matter of prayer.

[thesometimesaint]

Cold Steel:

That's all we need. A bunch of idiots with firearms running around.

[Bond...James Bond]

I'm not too worried.

God knows I'd be unlucky enough to die in the initial disaster.

Bond.... Bond

[structurecop]

Cold Steel:

That's all we need. A bunch of idiots with firearms running around.

It's already here. It's called Los Angeles.

[thesometimesaint]

structurecop:

Ever been to Utah during deer hunting season?

[structurecop]

structurecop:

Ever been to Utah during deer hunting season?

Utah and Idaho. That's when I start wearing orange and avoiding wooded areas. Don't get me wrong -- I'm no big gun-rights guy. But I'll be damned if I get caught bringing a knife to a gun fight.

[thesometimesaint]

structurecop:

I've been in both. I'm here and alive and they aren't. But I still don't like it.

[Zakuska]

Exactly.

I know I will be up on my roof shooting starving neighbors. Sounds incredibly Christ like to me!

It was a joke... I was thinking of the Jimmy Swaggart "what would Jesus do" thong. When I wrote that.

[structurecop]

structurecop:

I've been in both. I'm here and alive and they aren't. But I still don't like it.

Were you a Combat Controller or Pararescue?

[thesometimesaint]

structurecop:

While in the military I was that evil Personnel Sgt that sent everyone everywhere.

It was while a civilian working as armed security in the local banks that I had all the fun.

[alter idem]

That is a great idea and totally practical. If the man next door has children who are starving and he notices that you are still fat and happy he is gonna do whatever he can to get food for his children.

Thumbs up for weapons.....any suggestions on what weapons would be best?

I have always assumed that my food storage would be shared with my neighbors who need it.

As to the initial question; I don't believe weapons are necessary--no church leaders have ever suggested this and I don't believe in placing my trust in the "Arm of Flesh".

[structurecop]

While in the military I was that evil Personnel Sgt that sent everyone everywhere.

That explains so much.

[thesometimesaint]

alter idem:

My thoughts exactly. If as Priesthood holders we can hold up our arms and whole armies fall down dead. Why do I need a firearm to protect the food storage I don't have?