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Pesach And Bom


cksalmon

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And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.

Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.

And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.

And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.

In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.

Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land. Ye shall eat nothing leavened; in all your habitations shall ye eat unleavened bread.

Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover. And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.

For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.

And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the LORD will give you, according as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service.

And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service?

That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the LORD'S passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.

And the children of Israel went away, and did as the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.

â??Exodus 12:14-28

The background is the Jewish Passover feast (Heb., Pesach).

The question is, "Why is there no mention of this all-important feast day in BoM?"

Reference to Passover occurs at least 45 times in OT (I've ommitted NT references below)â??powered by e-sword:

Exo. 12:11, 21, 27, 43, 48; 34:25; Lev. 23:5; Num. 9:2, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 13, 14; 28:16; 33:3; Deu. 16:1, 2, 5, 6; Jos. 5:10, 11; 2Ki. 23:21, 22, 23; 2Ch. 30:1, 2, 5, 15, 18; 35:1, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 13, 16, 17, 18, 19; Ezra 6:19, 20; Eze. 45:21

If BoM is a record of faithfully practicing Jewsâ??knowledgable of Jewish customs and feast daysâ??why is there no mention of Pesach at all in BoM?

Curious about your thoughts.

Best to all.

CKS

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The question is, "Why is there no mention of this all-important feast day in BoM?"

Reference to Passover occurs at least 45 times in OT (I've ommitted NT references below)â??powered by e-sword:

If BoM is a record of faithfully practicing Jewsâ??knowledgable of Jewish customs and feast daysâ??why is there no mention of Pesach at all in BoM?

Curious about your thoughts.

Best to all.

CKS

At what point was Pesach actually instituted? Pre-Josianic? Post? Exillic? Its appearance in Exodus isn't exactly the best time marker.

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At what point was Pesach actually instituted? Pre-Josianic? Post? Exillic? Its appearance in Exodus isn't exactly the best time marker.

I'm not sure why not. Perhaps you can clarify?

Are you suggesting that migrating BoM people groups didn't know of this observance?

Best to you.

CKS

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At what point was Pesach actually instituted? Pre-Josianic? Post? Exillic? Its appearance in Exodus isn't exactly the best time marker.

I'm not sure why not. Perhaps you can clarify?

Are you suggesting that migrating BoM people groups didn't know of this observance?

Best to you.

CKS

If one subscribes to the documentary hypothesis, the current version of Exodus could be a late compilation. Perhaps Lehi's specific branch of mystical Judaism didn't subscribe to the more priestly observances, which made up only a portion of "Judaism."

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If one subscribes to the documentary hypothesis, the current version of Exodus could be a late compilation

Granted. Certainly, it could be later than the departure of BoM migratory groups.

But assuming a more traditional dating of Exodus...?

Best.

CKS

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If Pesach originated ~1200 BCE, why wouldn't migratory BoM people groups have known of it and recorded it, or known of it and not recorded it?

That's a big "if". Assuming it was a practice widespread throughout the southern kingdom, it is possible that it was abandoned after reaching the new world (apostasy?) or practiced in a way to make it unremarkable and unrecognizable in the account.

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If Pesach originated ~1200 BCE, why wouldn't migratory BoM people groups have known of it and recorded it, or known of it and not recorded it?

That's a big "if". Assuming it was a practice widespread throughout the southern kingdom, it is possible that it was abandoned after reaching the new world (apostasy?) or practiced in a way to make it unremarkable and unrecognizable in the account.

An equally big, if not bigger, "if," would be "If one subscribes to the documentary hypothesis..."

I don't, frankly.

Best.

CKS

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And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.

Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.

And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.

And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.

In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.

Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land. Ye shall eat nothing leavened; in all your habitations shall ye eat unleavened bread.

Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover. And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.

For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.

And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the LORD will give you, according as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service.

And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service?

That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the LORD'S passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.

And the children of Israel went away, and did as the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.

â??Exodus 12:14-28

The background is the Jewish Passover feast (Heb., Pesach).

The question is, "Why is there no mention of this all-important feast day in BoM?"

Reference to Passover occurs at least 45 times in OT (I've ommitted NT references below)â??powered by e-sword:

Exo. 12:11, 21, 27, 43, 48; 34:25; Lev. 23:5; Num. 9:2, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 13, 14; 28:16; 33:3; Deu. 16:1, 2, 5, 6; Jos. 5:10, 11; 2Ki. 23:21, 22, 23; 2Ch. 30:1, 2, 5, 15, 18; 35:1, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 13, 16, 17, 18, 19; Ezra 6:19, 20; Eze. 45:21

If BoM is a record of faithfully practicing Jewsâ??knowledgable of Jewish customs and feast daysâ??why is there no mention of Pesach at all in BoM?

Curious about your thoughts.

Best to all.

CKS

Oh dear. Are you now resorting to cutting and pasting of standard anti-Mormon arguments?

Outside the Pentateuch, which details both the founding events and the divine instructions on which the Passover is based, the Old Testament mentions the Passover only six times. You--or more correctly, your source--rather cunningly tries to make it look like more by individually listing each verse that constitutes part of a single mention, but there are in fact only six discrete passages that mention a Passover event. Two of those mentions are of the same event, so in fact there are only five post-Exodus passovers mentioned. Of which only one postdates Lehi's time.

On that basis, exactly how many Passovers should the Book of Mormon--abridged in the 4th Century AD--explicitly describe?

Regards,

Pahoran

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On that basis, exactly how many Passovers should the Book of Mormon--abridged in the 4th Century AD--explicitly describe?

Regards,

Pahoran

In particular based on both Mormon's and Moroni's statements that the abrigment was to convince the Jews to come unto Christ, not restore their ritual practices.

Larry P

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On that basis, exactly how many Passovers should the Book of Mormon--abridged in the 4th Century AD--explicitly describe?

Regards,

Pahoran

In particular based on both Mormon's and Moroni's statements that the abrigment was to convince the Jews to come unto Christ, not restore their ritual practices.

Larry P

THANK -YOU GOOD ANSWER!

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Unless some event that was significant to the BoM narrative happened to occur in conjuction with Passover, I don't see any reason why it would be mentioned in the BoM.

Some have pointed out that King Benjamin's address clearly occured during an observance of the Festival of Booths, but the text never actually points out that fact.

I think the example of King Benjamin's address shows that Jewish festivals were observed in the BoM, but that Mormon did not find it a priority to talk about them.

If the New World Christians were like the Old World Christians in discontinuing observance of the Jewish festivals, then those festivals would have been 300++ years in Mormon's past. He would probably have been no more likely to talk about them than we would be to talk about some festival that last occured in the days of King George I.

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In particular based on both Mormon's and Moroni's statements that the abrigment was to convince the Jews to come unto Christ, not restore their ritual practices.

Larry P

I agree with this. I did a search on lds.org to see how many times the phrase "law of Moses" was mentioned in the Book of Mormon and it came up with 27 verses, so its apparent the BoM peoples observed the Law of Moses. I think since the purpose of the book is to bring people to Christ it simply mentions it in passing. It could be that when it mentions the "Law of Moses" its referring to the traditions established under Moses in addition to the actual law.

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And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.

Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.

And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.

And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.

In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.

Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land. Ye shall eat nothing leavened; in all your habitations shall ye eat unleavened bread.

Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover. And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.

For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.

And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the LORD will give you, according as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service.

And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service?

That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the LORD'S passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.

And the children of Israel went away, and did as the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.

â??Exodus 12:14-28

The background is the Jewish Passover feast (Heb., Pesach).

The question is, "Why is there no mention of this all-important feast day in BoM?"

Reference to Passover occurs at least 45 times in OT (I've ommitted NT references below)â??powered by e-sword:

Exo. 12:11, 21, 27, 43, 48; 34:25; Lev. 23:5; Num. 9:2, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 13, 14; 28:16; 33:3; Deu. 16:1, 2, 5, 6; Jos. 5:10, 11; 2Ki. 23:21, 22, 23; 2Ch. 30:1, 2, 5, 15, 18; 35:1, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 13, 16, 17, 18, 19; Ezra 6:19, 20; Eze. 45:21

If BoM is a record of faithfully practicing Jewsâ??knowledgable of Jewish customs and feast daysâ??why is there no mention of Pesach at all in BoM?

Curious about your thoughts.

Best to all.

CKS

I personally believe they kept those traditions but because they were already expounded in the OT or brass plates and writing on the plates Nephi had was very difficult they chose not to rehash.

Instead they actually taught more of the New Covenants of rebirth --if you read the Kings speaches, which means that the Lord taught them more than those who would keep JUST the law of Moses. The righteous always receive more than the status quo people.

Edit to add:

These were chosen people who were separated from the wicked. Remember Lehi was a prophet who went trying to call the wicked to repentence and they were going to kill him.

They being chosen for righteousness sake were absolutely given higher laws which even happens today.

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Here is just one reference:

Alma 25: 15-16

15 Yea, and they did keep the law of Moses; for it was expedient that they should keep the law of Moses as yet, for it was not all fulfilled. But notwithstanding the alaw of Moses, they did look forward to the coming of Christ, considering that the law of Moses was a btype of his coming, and believing that they must keep those coutward dperformances until the time that he should be revealed unto them.

16 Now they did not suppose that asalvation came by the blaw of Moses; but the law of Moses did serve to strengthen their faith in Christ; and thus they did retain a chope through faith, unto eternal salvation, relying upon the spirit of prophecy, which spake of those things to come.

2 Ne. 25: 24, 30

24 And, notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we akeep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled.

• • •

30 And, inasmuch as it shall be expedient, ye must keep the aperformances and bordinances of God until the law shall be fulfilled which was given unto Moses.

There are lots more. Use "Law of Moses" in the search in lds scriptures and just read the references from the BoM.

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Come on, CK, you can do better than this.

First, you should read the BOM, which explicitly and repeatedly says the Nephites kept the Law of Moses. (2 Ne 5:20, 11:4, 25:24-30; Jacob 4:5-6; Alma 25:15, 34:14)

Second you should read the article by T. Szink and J. Welch, â??King Benjaminâ??s Speech in the Context of Ancient Israelite Festivalsâ? in J. Welch and S. Ricks (eds.) King Benjaminâ??s Speech, (FARMS, 1998), 147-225.

I would also maintain that the speech of Jacob in 2 Nephi is, in fact, a Day of Atonement ritual, and can be best understood in that context. Here is an outline of the parallels.

Jacobâ??s Discourse (2 Ne 6-10) and the Day of Atonement

Nephi (2 Ne 11.4): â??law of Moses = â??all things are the typifying of [Christ]â?

Jacobâ??s Themes: Atonement of Christ; Judgment; Prophecies of Restoration

Hebrew Sources on Day of Atonement:

Lev 16, 23.26-32

Sirach (Sir) 50-51 (Simon son of Onias)

Mishnah, Yoma (MY)

1- Yearly (7/10)=early October (Lev 16.29, 23.26)

2- New Years (7/1) was a memorial (zikron) = thing to be remembered

Jacob on remembrance = 2 Ne 9.39,40,41,44,46,51,52; 10.20.23,24

3- At the Temple (Lev 16)

Temple is finished (2 Ne 5.16)

4- Key role of High Priest (HP) (Lev 16; 16.32)

Jacob consecrated as [High?] priest (2 Ne 5.26, 6.2)

5- Pilgrimage for all Israel (Lev 16.34; Sir 50.13)

Jacob addresses all â??the people of Nephiâ? (2 Ne 6.1)

6- Genesis read on New Years (10 days earlier) = Creation festival

Jacob has read â??things which are written, from the creation of the worldâ? (2 Ne 6.3)

7- HP robes removed (Lev 16.23-24)

Jacob removes his robes (2 Ne 9.44)

8- HP dons glorious robes (Lev 16.24+4,32; Sir 50.11; MY 7.5)

Jacob stands before God â??clothed with purity, yea, even with the robe of righteousnessâ? (2 Ne 9.14)

9- Time of judgment of Israel

Jacobâ??s on judgment (2 Ne 6.10, 8.4, 9.7,15,22,44)

10- Central element is atonement (Lev 16.16,30,33)

Jacobâ??s theme of â??infinite atonementâ? (2 Ne 9.7)

11- Scapegoat =Satan cast out (Lev 16.5-10,20-2)

Jacob on driving out Satan (2 Ne 9.8-10, 16, 19)

12- deliverance from death and Hell (Sir 51.5-6)

Jacob = 2 Ne 9.8-12,19,26

13- confession of communal sins (Lev 16.21)

â??I know my guilt, I transgressed thy lawâ? (2 Ne 9.46)

14- blood ritual for purification (Lev 16.14,18)

â??I am rid of your bloodâ? (2 Ne 9.44)

15- calls repentance

2 Ne 9.23-24 â??repent and be baptizedâ?

16- immersion of priests for purification (Lev 16.4,24,26,28; MY 7.3)

2 Ne 9.23-24 â??repent and be baptizedâ?

17- calls for Godâ??s mercy (Sir 50.22-24)

2 Ne 9.53 (+9.8,19)

18- blesses people and prophecies of future (Sir 50.20)

2 Ne 10

19- reading the Law for covenant renewal (MY 7.1-3)

Jacob â??read these things

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>If Pesach originated ~1200 BCE, why wouldn't migratory BoM people groups have known of it and recorded it, or known of it and not recorded it?

Sigh.

http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/m/mormon/morm...;size=First+100

I'm really not sure as to your point, cdowis. I wouldn't dispute, and haven't disputed, that the phrase "Law of Moses" appears in BoM, but I do appreciate your link substantiating our shared knowledge.

Best.

CKS

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I wouldn't dispute, and haven't disputed, that the phrase "Law of Moses" appears in BoM,

So which part of Pesach that's not part of the LOM are you looking for? Or, to put it another way, if the BOM peoples kept the LOM, and the LOM included Pesach, then BOM peoples must have performed Pesach.

On the other hand, 2 Kg 23:22 implies that Passover was not kept by the Israelites during much the biblical period. Indeed, the text implies that its institiution was part of the reforms of Josiah, and hence was something relatively new in Judea at the time of Lehi, young contemporary of Josiah.

I should note that Passover is mentioned only once by the prophets, and that by postexilic Ezekiel 45:21.

So, if the absence of explicit references to Pesach in the BOM is sound methodological grounds for rejection of the BOM as an ancient Israelite text, then we shouldn't we also dismiss the Psalms, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Hosea, Zechariah, etc., none of which mention pesach.

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Another possibility:

Mos 19 [22] And it came to pass that they were about to return to the land of Nephi, and they met the men of Gideon. And the men of Gideon told them of all that had happened to their wives and their children; etc ....

[24] And it came to pass that ***after they had ended the ceremony***, that they returned to the land of Nephi, rejoicing, because their wives and their children were not slain; and they told Gideon what they had done to the king.

What ceremony is referenced here? One possibility is the Passover.

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Look at the "Sons of the Passover" chapter in Re-exploring the Book of Mormon.

http://store.fairlds.org/prod/p0875796001.html

Based on research by Gordon Thomasson, he makes the case that Alma's discourses demonstrate a passover tradition. And I think I remember an essay by Jack Welch in the same volume (or the sequel) making the case that Abinadi's discourse demonstrates passover themes. I'm at work, and don't have access to my books.

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

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I appreciate your thorough response. I look forward to delving into it this [Friday] evening.

Best to you.

CKS

So, CK, have you delved?

Yes. I've been going through your list of parallels a bit at a time.

Some of them are interesting--this one, e.g.:

2- New Years (7/1) was a memorial (zikron) = thing to be remembered

Jacob on remembrance = 2 Ne 9.39,40,41,44,46,51,52; 10.20.23,24

Others seem like stretches to me (the reference to wine).

Logically, I think the explicit lack of mention of Pesach in BoM is defensible along these lines (to propositionalize what you and cdowis have suggested):

(1) The marking of Pesach was a component of the Law of Moses

(2) The BoM peoples observed the whole Law of Moses (1 Nephi 17.22)

Therefore,

(3) The BoM peoples marked Pesach

Based on the explicit nature of 1 Nephi 17.22, this is solid logically. It's simpler and less messy than the argument to implicit parallels.

I'm still working through those.

Best.

CKS

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