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The Philadelphia Connection


poulsenll

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If one listens to the critics, Oliver was in many places during his early life. Not only was he in many places with a huge library following him around, but he was able to spend most of his time researching various traditions located in ancient religions. Truly, as I listen to some critics, oliver was an amazing man, with a giant intellect. As was Joseph Smith. Both individuals seem to have had supernatural talents in writing the book of mormon. And then if we throw Sidney into the picture, we have three men set on frauding the world by forming a new religion, all fully learned with honory doctorates willing to suffer mob attacks, death, discomforture, etc. for their fraud.

I just don't buy it. But then again, I am just a humble servant. :P

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Although Oliver cowdery may have had access to much of this material, I doubt that Joseph Smith,

although aware of it, had any access to the published material....

Larry P

I'm not sure why you single out Oliver here -- other than the probability that he worked

at the Poultney, VT newspaper office when the local minister's (Ethan Smith's) book on

ancient Americans was being published. However Ethan Smith did not accentuate the

legend of the white, god-like religious teacher in ancient America until the 1825 edition

of his book. I doubt Oliver would have been exposed to Quetzalcoatl=St. Thomas

speculations until after that time.

However, see my various comments regarding Solomon Spalding's Boska, South

American Bochica/Viracocha/Thomas legends, etc.

Uncle Dale

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I'm not sure why you single out Oliver here -- other than the probability that he worked

at the Poultney, VT newspaper office when the local minister's (Ethan Smith's) book on

ancient Americans was being published. However Ethan Smith did not accentuate the

legend of the white, god-like religious teacher in ancient America until the 1825 edition

of his book. I doubt Oliver would have been exposed to Quetzalcoatl=St. Thomas

speculations until after that time.

The issue I have with associating Oliver in Joseph's "grand schemes," is the simple fact that the translation had begun LONG before Joseph met Oliver. By the time he had come and met the Smiths and spoken with Joseph in April of 1829, the 116 pages had long since been lost. Emma and Martin were primary scribes, and the story had long since been underway.

We can't associate Oliver as the catalyst for collaboration between similar theories and stories without accounting for serious anachronisms.

PacMan

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The issue I have with associating Oliver in Joseph's "grand schemes," is the simple fact that the translation had begun LONG before Joseph met Oliver. By the time he had come and met the Smiths and spoken with Joseph in April of 1829, the 116 pages had long since been lost. Emma and Martin were primary scribes, and the story had long since been underway.

We can't associate Oliver as the catalyst for collaboration between similar theories and stories without accounting for serious anachronisms.

PacMan

Orsamus Turner, who was associated with the Palmyra newspaper up until 1822,

and who obviously maintained contact with people in his home town, when he

moved a few miles westward after that, says that Oliver was a visitor to the Smith

home at a very early date.

http://olivercowdery.com/texts/1851Trn1.htm#turn1850

David Whitmer and other early residnets of the Fayette-Waterloo area in Seneca Co., NY

appear to have been saying that Oliver taught school there as early as about 1826. If

we look at post office letter lists in the area immediately adjacent to Waterloo, we can

find letters waiting for Oliver in the post office for Arcadia, Wayne Co., NY a few miles

to the NW as early as 1827.

While we may not be able to tie Oliver directly to the Smiths as early as 1826, I believe

that further investigation will show that Oliver was living in the same area as the Smiths,

and that Oliver's older brother, Lyman Cowdery was known to the Smiths at an early date.

Uncle Dale

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There is no question in my mind that information and theories about the presence of ancient israelites abounded in the early part iof the 17th century.

It's not clear to me if you think this information and these theories were true.

I personally believe that this was part of the Lord's preparation for the coming forth of the Book of Mormon. Without this preparation, there would have been a lot more skeptacism and most people would have ignored the message of the Book of Mormon.

Maybe the moundbuilder myths had the same function? Did they also come from God?

I'm not mocking your personal beliefs, Larry, but I just thought I would point out how the logic here has a familiar ring to it. It reminds me of Bushman's idea that Joseph's early involvement with folk magic, peepstones, and treasure digging was part of the Lord's way to prepare his prophet and early followers for the peculiar events surrounding the gold plates.

Naturally, the arrow of logic flies the other way in my personal beliefs. Joseph Smith told a peculiar story about the gold plates and seerstones because of his treasure digging background. Similarly, the Book of Mormon story tells of ancient Israelites in America because such stories were clearly present before Joseph Smith. It seems to me that in the absence of evidence (or at least a really good argument) to the contrary, a straighforward cause-->effect relationship is the one to bet on.

Now I know you have a strong belief based on Moroni's promise, so you won't accept my straightforward logic. Okay. But why favor the counterintuitive logic that God seeded the minds of men with fanciful theories, so that some would be led to the Book of Mormon? Why don't you just deny there was any relationship between Jos

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What isn't being said here, but should be said, is that back then folk magic and white skinned moundbuilders, and Native American Christianity weren't such a crazy notions -- but now they are. Why is that? Have we learned something about our world, or have we just gotten stupider?

So . . . people who still believe in things LDS are stupid? :P

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