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Vogel's The Making Of A Prophet


William Schryver

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William,

You have access to this catalogue at the church archives?

Phaedrus

Obviously I would not have suggested such a thing if I did not have access to information sufficient to lead me to believe that there is no such document among the "Joseph Smith Egyptian Papers."

The better question is: Did Vogel have access to this catalogue in the Church Archives in order to have verified his claim?

And the bigger question is: Are there other inaccuracies in The Making of a Prophet that have been noted by astute readers out there?

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By six-degrees of separation I have access to every important archive in the world. So likewise I could make equally as vague of statements.

I'll take your evasive answer as a no.

Phaedrus

It takes a lot of guts to issue a bold challenge, knowing full well that you will have to evade the obvious follow up questions.

I'm willing to take it on Will's special apologetic authority and reputation, for now.

I guess Dan's biography is all just a heap of trash. So sad. :P

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Will,

Why would Dan invent something like that? Maybe he just made a mistake when he said it was part of the Joseph Smith Egyptian papers. Or maybe your second-hand catalogue of the Papers is incomplete. How can you accuse him of fabricating evidence when you obviously don't have all the facts? Wouldn't it be easier to just say, "Hey Dan, my sources tell me there's no such document in the JSEP, so I was wondering if you could help me locate the document you're referring to. Thanks in advance! -Will"

Instead we get, "I am left to wonder what it portends about the reliability of the research in this so-called 'definitive' biography of Joseph Smith." That's pretty lame, if you ask me.

-CK

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By six-degrees of separation I have access to every important archive in the world.  So likewise I could make equally as vague of statements. 

I'll take your evasive answer as a no.

Phaedrus

It takes a lot of guts to issue a bold challenge, knowing full well that you will have to evade the obvious follow up questions.

I'm willing to take it on Will's special apologetic authority and reputation, for now.

I guess Dan's biography is all just a heap of trash. So sad. :P

Come on, TD!

I've said nothing of the sort. I simply have identified what appears to be an inaccurate claim, and I am now asking to see if others have also noted similar inaccuracies.

We have seen, on this board, derision heaped upon the late Hugh Nibley by individuals who claim to have found inaccurate footnotes, etc., in his writings. And as a result of that, many critics are now covering Nibley's entire oeuvre with a blanket condemnation.

Vogel has made a bold claim regarding something allegedly found in the "Joseph Smith Egyptian Papers." The item he claims is there is nowhere to be found. I have verified this fact via sources to which I have access. I frankly don't care if phaedrus or anyone else chooses to believe it.

I have clearly established, on the KEP thread in the School of the Pundits, that I do have access to the Joseph Smith Egyptian Papers. So do Brent Metcalfe, Paul Osborne, Ed Ashment, and others. It's rare, but hardly unheard of.

And, to my knowledge, there has never been such a document in that collection as Vogel claims there to be. Apparently, it is a glaring inaccuracy in the Vogel bio of Joseph Smith. And, as such, it makes me wonder if it is not alone.

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Will,

Why would Dan invent something like that? Maybe he just made a mistake when he said it was part of the Joseph Smith Egyptian papers. Or maybe your second-hand catalogue of the Papers is incomplete. How can you accuse him of fabricating evidence when you obviously don't have all the facts? Wouldn't it be easier to just say, "Hey Dan, my sources tell me there's no such document in the JSEP, so I was wondering if you could help me locate the document you're referring to. Thanks in advance! -Will"

Instead we get, "I am left to wonder what it portends about the reliability of the research in this so-called 'definitive' biography of Joseph Smith." That's pretty lame, if you ask me.

-CK

CK:

Where did I say that Dan "invented" it? I said nothing of the sort. Here is what I said:

According to my research, there is no such document among the
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Okay, Will. I'll just second what CK said, since I probably not the best person to give lectures on class.

Give me a call when Dan Vogel shows up.

Maybe you could at least point out where I made the claim that Vogel "fabricated" something?

For all I know, Vogel was simply misinformed. Or he listed an inaccurate footnote. Or something of the sort. I'm sure he'll clear it all up for us.

Too bad Nibely wasn't afforded the same opportunity.

And too bad it's apparently considered "classy" when Metcalfe does it:

Nibley Critique

But it is "in poor taste" when coming from the other direction.

The irony of the double-standard is palpable.

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On page 114 of Dan Vogel
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d'Unk,

Those items are ones with which I am familiar. The document to which Dan refers is something with which I am not. To my knowledge, there is no such document among Joseph Smith's Egytpian Papers. But, I will allow that I could be ignorant of such a thing. I am hoping that Mr. Vogel will clarify this, and enlighten us as to where this document can be found.

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I notice here that Will refers to Dan as Mr Vogal and talks about him in the 3rd person both here and in the thread on the KEP. Seems a tad rude. The others refer to each other as "Dan" "Wil" etc.

Dear Mr. Noel00:

Ooh yes. Calling him "Mr. Vogel" is about the wickedest thing I've ever seen. Horrible. Absolutely horrible.

Yes, we Mormons are rude, vicious, and awash with disdain and loathing for those who disagree with us. That's why no substantive interaction with us is necessary.

Please see my response to you on the "Latter-day Saints View of Islam" thread.

Daniel "Mr. Snarls" Peterson

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Yes, we Mormons are rude, vicious, and awash with disdain and loathing for those who disagree with us.  That's why no substantive interaction with us is necessary.

Been hitting the mega-vitamins again, I see.

A lower dose of the B-6 will take down the adrenaline levels, perhaps.

d'Unk

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Been hitting the mega-vitamins again, I see.

A lower dose of the B-6 will take down the adrenaline  levels, perhaps.

I've grown tired of Mr. Noel00's incessant accusations, calumnies, and personal insults. I'm under no obligation to continue to permit them to pass without comment.

You're not his target. It's no great achievement on your part to ignore his continual character assassination.

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You're not his target. It's no great achievement on your part to ignore his continual character assassination.

Chill out, bro.

Listen to some tunes on the pod and order in a pizza.

I think I read that in Ecclesiastes...

Uncle "Or maybe it was in Ecclesiasticus; I always get those two mixed up" Dale

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I notice...

noel00... you been dissin' the Doc again?

Have some respect fer yer elders.

yer Unk

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Ya know I was pondering a response on the purpose of being at fair thread... it was going to include wonderful access to intelligent dialogue between LDS and non-LDS scholars alike...

...All of these enlightened and scholarly comments from our pundits and high powered posters have convinced me to go to bed instead. <_<:P

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May I respectfully request that this thread return to its designated topic?

Is there anyone out there who has even read Vogel's The Making of a Prophet?

And, if so, have you identified within its covers any factual inaccuracies?

Agreed! Posters, please stay on topic and don't turn this into a sniping contest. -mods

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