David Bokovoy Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Following the formation of woman in Genesis 2, the biblical text provides an intriguing note: Link to comment
urroner Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Fascinating. WHere do you come up with these little tidbits? Link to comment
dragonslayer Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 To me, the term "one flesh" means offspring. Surely, when a man and woman have a child together, that child is indeed the "one flesh" produced, a combination of them both. Link to comment
Ron Beron Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh Link to comment
David Bokovoy Posted September 22, 2006 Author Share Posted September 22, 2006 Fascinating. WHere do you come up with these little tidbits?I Link to comment
Ron Beron Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 The concept of a divine consort is certainly not foreign to other biblical texts. Biblical scholar Michael Coogan has argued that the personification of wisdom in Proverbs 1-9 provides evidence for the ongoing worship of a goddess as consort of Yahweh; Michael D. Coogan, Link to comment
David Bokovoy Posted September 22, 2006 Author Share Posted September 22, 2006 I have read somewhere that the above verse relates directly to the admonition of having children. The cleave part is sexual union with his wife while the "one flesh" is the resultant children. David, do you see it this way?Nahum Sarna provides the following note in his JPS Commentary: Link to comment
PacMan Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Very interesting!The point is so obvious I can Link to comment
katherine the great Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh Link to comment
Warship Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 David,Interesting, but this statement....Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh Link to comment
e=mc2 Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 It might be a wordplay, since Hebrew "Adam" can mean "man" in general, or the specifically named "Adam." Link to comment
structurecop Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 I think male and female are both necessary to form the complete human that God created in His image. I was in a conservative Baptist service wherein the preacher stated God contains the wholeness of male and female; therefore, upon resurrection we would all be male but collectively, female. Definitely a paper regarding divine sexuality is in order. Link to comment
Warship Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 E=mc2,I know what you say is true but I do not know the original hebrew of these verses to know what made the interpreters dilineate between Adam, mankind, and a man. I'll try checking my Strong's and see if I can figure something out. Link to comment
salvar774 Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Following the formation of woman in Genesis 2, the biblical text provides an intriguing note: Link to comment
katherine the great Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. [Genesis 3:20, (see also Moses 4:26)] Couldn't the term "mother" be rightly applied to Eve because she was the governing female? Link to comment
structurecop Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. [Genesis 3:20, (see also Moses 4:26)] Couldn't the term "mother" be rightly applied to Eve because she was the governing female? Notice Eve is called only "the woman" until after they are ejected from the Garden. Then she receives her name. Link to comment
Ron Beron Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. [Genesis 3:20, (see also Moses 4:26)] Couldn't the term "mother" be rightly applied to Eve because she was the governing female? As opposed to what other female? It is easy to be Alpha-female when you are the only one. Although you are probably more correct than you think. It the mythology of it Eve was more than just a woman she was the actual embodiment of the actual creative female deity, Ninhursag. In Samuel Noah Kramer's book, "Sumerian Mythology", he writes, Now the Sumerian word for "rib" is ti (pronounced "tee"). The goddess created for the healing of Enki's rib, therefore was called in Sumerian Nin-ti, "the lady of the rib." But the very same Sumerian word ti also means "to make live." The name Nin-ti may thus mean "the lady who makes live," as well as "the lady of the rib." In Sumerian literature, therefore, "the lady of the rib" came to be identified with "the lady who makes live" through what might be termed a play on words. (Kramer, Mythologies 103)So not only is the birth of Eve momentful it is also humorous...or was that a rib. Also significant is that the part of Adam here is played by Enki who later generations called Yahweh. So maybe BY was right when he stated that Adam was God after all. Link to comment
katherine the great Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Couldn't the term "mother" be rightly applied to Eve because she was the governing female? Link to comment
structurecop Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 As opposed to what other female? Lilith? Link to comment
Ron Beron Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 As opposed to what other female? Lilith? Oooops! Forgot that little vixen. Oh and on that line don't forget Naamah, Adam's third wife!!! And, according to the different talmudic writings God created a woman for Adam while he watched. Adam was so shocked at the blood, flesh, and veins he passed away and wanted nothing to do with wife #3. God finally put Adam to sleep, took his rib, dressed Eve in jewels and finery and then woke Adam. Thereupon he fell in love. Men are so fickle. While we are on the subject it seems Adam was polygamous . Shhhhhh....don't tell anyone. Link to comment
structurecop Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Oh and on that line don't forget Naamah, Adam's third wife!!! And, according to the different talmudic writings God created a woman for Adam while he watched. Adam was so shocked at the blood, flesh, and veins he passed away and wanted nothing to do with wife #3. God finally put Adam to sleep, took his rib, dressed Eve in jewels and finery and then woke Adam. Thereupon he fell in love. Men are so fickle. While we are on the subject it seems Adam was polygamous Wow, I did not know that about Naamah. So the order went... Lilith, Naamah, Eve? I have to admit, if I saw my mate-to-be created from the ground up, as it were, I might be a little grossed out. Link to comment
Uncle Dale Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 However, Genesis 2:24 not only states that the man left his father, the account specifically notes that the man also left his mother. I believe that this often ignored element suggests that in an earlier form, the Eden story involved a depiction of Adam leaving not only his divine father but also his divine mother. More likely the text reflects two different sources, combined as chapter 1 and chapter 2.I think it is problematic to try and work back and forth between two different conflated accounts. Mostly what we end up doing, then, is inadvertantently placing ourselves in the later redactor's position, (but without all of his resources available to us).On the other hand, I'm fairly certain that the earliest strains of Yahwist religion included both a male and female deity -- possibly with the female aspect ascendant, as in the Hathor-Horus relationship in Egypt.I have speculated that the briefly related story of Phinehas' murder of Cozbi was once meant to symbilize (or encapsulate) the removal of the last traces of the female principle from Yahwist religion.Somewhere in my files I have a preliminary web-page written up on that topic, which I will one day place here:http://sidneyrigdon.com/DRB/BEGIN/begin.htmUD Link to comment
Warship Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Adam the polygamous God...sounds like heaven is one big orgy...must be hell for the ladies though. BY did not teach that one of the names for God was Adam but that Adam was God.The statement about Eve being the mother of all living sounds like more editorial exegesis. A comment about the past made from the future. All of genesis is the telling of a story in the past..the authors can comment any time on the relevance of the story to their own time.Polygamy and orgy are not one and the same. It is highly offensive and degrading to the principle. -Mods Link to comment
Ron Beron Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 The statement about Eve being the mother of all living sounds like more editorial exegesis. A comment about the past made from the future. All of genesis is the telling of a story in the past..the authors can comment any time on the relevance of the story to their own time.If you look at the earliest records in Sumerian she is mentioned as the "mother of all living" under the goddess Ti (life) ama (mother) t. This is association number one. Tiamat is also the destructor goddess in Sumerian and is not likely to be considered the same as Eve. However, in the Sumerian myth Enki (Yahweh) is cursed by the great mother-goddess, Nisnhursag, because he ate the forbidden fruits of paradise. Kramer, mentioned above, states..."Enki's eating of the eight plants and the curse utteredagainst him for his misdeed recall the eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge by Adam and Eve and the curses pronounced against each of them for this sinful action."Enki falls ill and starts to die. Eventually Ninhursag relents and begins the cure of Enki using the goddess Ninti..."My brother (Enki), what hurts you? My rib hurts me. To the goddess Nin-ti (`Lady of the Rib') I (Ninhursag) have given birth for you."Here's the joke. The word for 'rib' in Sumerian is 'ti' which is also the word "to make live". The Lady of the Rib, Ninti, is also the Lady who Makes Live. Okay, so it is not all that funny. What remains significant, however, is the conflation of the great mother goddess, Ninhursag (also known as Nintu and Mami), who bears the epithet "Mother of All Offspring" (Sum. Ana-dumu-dumu-ene) with Eve who more than likely began her mythological career as a goddess of some kind, but later ended up as a help meet because of Israel's monotheistic tendencies. Link to comment
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