Book of Mormon musical’s new ad campaign

[Calm]

Does anyone else find this an odd approach for advertising something Mormonish?  Not that I see the musical as much more than a racist caricature, but it seems likely created by someone in England not as familiar with our teachings trying to go for something eye catching.

https://www.westendtheatre.com/294912/news/the-book-of-mormon-launches-new-ad-campaign-as-it-becomes-the-west-ends-15th-longest-running-musical/

Quote

The attention-grabbing new campaign on social media is “It’s hell out there. Find salvation at The Book of Mormon” and features characters from the show descending into the depths of hell

 

[teddyaware]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Does anyone else find this an odd approach for advertising something Mormonish?  Not that I see the musical as much more than a racist caricature, but it seems likely created by someone in England not as familiar with our teachings trying to go for something eye catching.

https://www.westendtheatre.com/294912/news/the-book-of-mormon-launches-new-ad-campaign-as-it-becomes-the-west-ends-15th-longest-running-musical/

 

I’ve always thought of the Book of Mormon musical to be a kind of quirky literal fulfillment of Nephi’s vision of the worldly, strangely dressed people who stand at the windows the large and spacious building to ridicule, mock and laugh to scorn the saints of God who love and serve the Savior of the world. I wonder if one day Trey Parker and Matt Stone will come to deeply regret the role they played in bringing to pass the literal fulfillment of one of the most powerful and fearsome prophetic warnings found in the very book of sacred writ that they made sport of in order to obtain mounds of filthy lucre and the praise of a doomed, fallen world.

Edited July 14, 2025 by teddyaware

[Pyreaux]

The ad campaign reflects their comedic tone: irreverent, provocative, and exaggerated - often at the expense of accuracy or sensitivity. Is it thinking missionaries preach hellfire, or are obsessed with saving people from hell? It’s riffing on the cultural perception of religious missionaries as “saving souls from hell”, even though that’s not how LDS missionaries actually talk or frame their message. It’s a spoof of how outsiders misunderstand all missionaries, especially those seen as “earnest” or “intense.”

There’s no “hellfire” doctrine like in many Evangelical circles. LDS hell is nuanced, usually “spirit prison” (temporary) or damnation, being outside God's presence (degrees of glory). The tone is usually hopeful and positive, focused on Christ, family, and personal revelation.

You are right. The musical is often a racialized and reductive parody, particularly in how it portrays Ugandans and trivializes both their lived experience and LDS faith. While it’s praised in self-proclaimed 'anti-racism' enlightened secular circles. It highlights how often they'll tolerate how someone distorts or misrepresents minority faiths like Mormonism in the name of comedy or shock value. 

South Park creators often say they "mock everything equally" but in practice, they don’t. Islam, especially after the backlash to things like the Danish cartoons or Charlie Hebdo, is often avoided or treated more cautiously, not always out of respect, but out of fear of reprisal. In contrast, Mormonism is seen as a “safe target”: Latter-day Saints are polite, nonviolent, and typically don’t respond with outrage. The faith is distinctive, small, and misunderstood making it easy to distort for laughs as the audience doesn't know what's being exaggerated or invented.

“You can make fun of them - they’ll just send you cookies.” That’s a real quote used in media circles about LDS members.

[Calm]

27 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

It’s riffing on the cultural perception of religious missionaries as “saving souls from hell”

My perception is someone is lazy and confusing LDS with those who believe in literal hellfire, primarily I am guessing Fundamentalists.

[Calm]

29 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

While it’s praised in self-proclaimed 'anti-racism' enlightened secular circles

Perhaps in some circles, over the years I have seen it severely criticized by many anti racism advocates.

I seriously do not get how it could be popular among any but those who are anti Mormon who are also racist.  The justification that it is just cartoonish or is intentionally using stereotypical racist portrayals (one justification I have seen) to point out racism or that the Ugandan portrayal is what actual Mormons expect to find all fall quite flat for me given what else gets condemned as racist plus LDS due to their extensive missionary activities tend to hold more realistic views of other countries and cultures in my experience.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Pyreaux said:

South Park creators often say they "mock everything equally" but in practice, they don’t.

I believe they justify their mocking of LDS because it is what they are familiar with.

As far as Islam, AI had this to say (so I don’t know how accurate):

”In "South Park," the depiction of Prophet Muhammad has been a source of significant controversy and censorship. The show initially depicted Muhammad in the 2001 episode "Super Best Friends" without issue. However, later episodes, particularly "Cartoon Wars Part II" (2006), "200," and "201," faced censorship from Comedy Central due to threats and safety concerns following the 2005 Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy. The episodes dealt with the controversy itself, with characters attempting to bring Muhammad into the show, often depicted in a bear suit to avoid direct visual representation.”

If I understand correctly, SP creators wrote an episode dealing with the censorship of Muhammad after the threats, but when CC censored it, they altered it to underline/lampoon the censorship.  Apparently you can find the uncensored version in some areas—at least the first episode 201 was also censored for the same reason), I am guessing in DVDs.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2010/apr/22/south-park-censored-fatwa-muhammad

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/200_(South_Park)

Edited July 15, 2025 by Calm

[bluebell]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Does anyone else find this an odd approach for advertising something Mormonish?  Not that I see the musical as much more than a racist caricature, but it seems likely created by someone in England not as familiar with our teachings trying to go for something eye catching.

https://www.westendtheatre.com/294912/news/the-book-of-mormon-launches-new-ad-campaign-as-it-becomes-the-west-ends-15th-longest-running-musical/

 

Seeing this, I assumed it was a scene from the actual play.  I've never seen the play though so I have no idea if it is or isn't.  

[Notatbm]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Does anyone else find this an odd approach for advertising something Mormonish?  Not that I see the musical as much more than a racist caricature, but it seems likely created by someone in England not as familiar with our teachings trying to go for something eye catching.

https://www.westendtheatre.com/294912/news/the-book-of-mormon-launches-new-ad-campaign-as-it-becomes-the-west-ends-15th-longest-running-musical/

 

Well D &C 64:23 is pretty straightforward about burning non-tithepayers at the second coming: 

“23 Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice⁠, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.”

We also know that tithing or donating to any organization except for the lds church does not count as tithing. For example, I as a Mormon will not be considered a tithepayer if i choose to tithe to another church or NGO who accepts “tithing” or donations. If I do that and not pay a full ten percent of my “increase, income, interest” or whatever the standard is to the Mormon church, I will be burned at the second coming. 
 

the ad isn’t too far off. All non Mormons will burn at the second coming. Also all not full tithe paying Mormons will burn as well. 

 

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, Notatbm said:

ell D &C 64:23 is pretty straightforward about burning non-tithepayers at the second coming

Yes and we have joked about it being fire insurance, but I have never talked to a Saint who envisioned it as actual flames…though I admit I haven’t talked to many about it.  Those I have talked to see the flames as figurative, more mental and emotional than a physical burning. I have assumed seeing the flames as figurative is the majority/dominant view, but could be wrong.

[Calm]

42 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Seeing this, I assumed it was a scene from the actual play.  I've never seen the play though so I have no idea if it is or isn't.  

I read the script and the lyrics (felt I needed to read the whole thing if I was going to call it out as much as I did as racist), but it was eons ago, so my memory may be messed up, but I don’t remember something like that.

Of course, reading it may mean the visuals didn’t stick.  According to AI, there is a dream of hell, but didn’t give a description that includes hellfire.

”In the musical "The Book of Mormon," the song "Spooky Mormon Hell Dream" features a vivid and darkly humorous depiction of hell as envisioned by Elder Price. In this dream sequence, Elder Price is tormented by figures like Genghis Khan, Jeffrey Dahmer, Hitler, and Johnnie Cochran, who mock him for abandoning his mission companion, Elder Cunningham. The song also includes images of coffee cups, highlighting the musical's playful use of Mormon cultural details. 

It's important to note that the portrayal of hell in "Spooky Mormon Hell Dream" is a comedic and fictional representation created for the musical and doesn't reflect the theological beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) regarding hell. LDS theology describes hell in more nuanced ways, including a metaphorical "hell on earth" representing emotional torment and a temporary "spirit prison" for sinners before resurrection. A more severe, eternal separation from God, termed "outer darkness," is reserved for a very small subset of humanity who actively rebel against their redemption.”

I can’t get clips to play as my internet is currently down, but it does look like there is at least a lot of red in the dream/song sequence.  It makes more sense if that is where the ‘hellfire’ came from.  

I had a dream once about hell sort of (I wasn’t in literal hell, but I was thinking it was a result of me being bad…I was quite young).  My hell is apparently not being able to get anyone to acknowledge my existence, no matter how hard I cry, scream, pull on them, not even my parents or siblings (it was terrifying and I woke up crying and couldn’t tell my mom why, it’s one of my earliest memories).  I have had a similar dream (I was a teen) to it where everyone was looking up as Christ descended, but all I could do was look at their faces and no one registered my existence.  I was not familiar with the left behind series or the theology it came from at the time and they weren’t going anywhere as Christ was coming to us, so I don’t think I picked it up from that.

I do have abandonment issues obviously.

Edited July 15, 2025 by Calm

[Notatbm]

6 minutes ago, Calm said:

Yes and we have joked about it being fire insurance, but I have never talked to a Saint who envisioned it as actual flames…though I admit I haven’t talked to many about it.  Those I have talked to see the flames as figurative, more mental and emotional than a physical burning. I have assumed seeing the flames as figurative is the majority/dominant view, but could be wrong.

This guy takes it fairly seriously.. or at least acts like it.  Think the “acts” part is an apt description 

 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Notatbm said:

This guy takes it fairly seriously.. or at least acts like it.  Think the “acts” part is an apt description 

 

Seriously doesn’t mean literally. Do you think he believes God opens a window in heaven and causes blessings to rain down just like water does on us (somehow hitting the right people)?

I would be interested if you can find anyone leader describing hell as literally sitting in the middle of a bonfire or lake of flames.

Edited July 15, 2025 by Calm

[Calm]

Quote

In the book of Revelation, fire and brimstone symbolize the destruction and ultimate abode of the wicked. President Boyd K. Packer (1924–2015) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles explained:

“The prophets speak of the ‘gall of bitterness’ [Acts 8:23; Alma 41:11] and often compare the pain of guilt to fire and brimstone. Brimstone is another name for sulfur. …

“That lake of fire and brimstone, ever burning but never consumed, is the description in the scriptures for hell [see Revelation 19:20; 20:10; 21:8; D&C 63:17; 76:36]” (“The Touch of the Master’s Hand,”Ensign, May 2001, 23).

Iow, figurative for “the pain of guilt”.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/new-testament-student-manual/revelation/chapter-56-revelation-17-22?lang=eng

[Notatbm]

Here’s another one:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/video/2010-07-0057-those-tithed-not-burned-at-his-coming?lang=eng

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, Notatbm said:

Here’s another one:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/video/2010-07-0057-those-tithed-not-burned-at-his-coming?lang=eng

Does not refer to hell, but being burned at the second coming.

I have heard speculation it is nuclear bombs or the power of God’s glory being so intense that burns the wicked.

Edited July 15, 2025 by Calm

[Calm]

A portrayal of hell from church’s website:

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Notatbm said:

Well D &C 64:23 is pretty straightforward about burning non-tithepayers at the second coming: 

“23 Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice⁠, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.”

We also know that tithing or donating to any organization except for the lds church does not count as tithing. For example, I as a Mormon will not be considered a tithepayer if i choose to tithe to another church or NGO who accepts “tithing” or donations. If I do that and not pay a full ten percent of my “increase, income, interest” or whatever the standard is to the Mormon church, I will be burned at the second coming. 
 

the ad isn’t too far off. All non Mormons will burn at the second coming. Also all not full tithe paying Mormons will burn as well. 

 

This is one of those times when taking a scripture out of context creates confusion. 

We don't believe that all non mormons will be burned (remember that one of the tenets of our faith is that no one is held accountable for not keeping a law they do not know is a law--and even if they were taught it, their responsibility would be based on what they personally knew, not on one standard of knowledge), and we also don't believe that paying tithing is a get out of jail free card.

Edited July 15, 2025 by bluebell

[Notatbm]

49 minutes ago, Calm said:

Does not refer to hell, but being burned at the second coming.

I have heard speculation it is nuclear bombs or the power of God’s glory being so intense that burns the wicked.

I’m thinking being burned would be hell.. how bout you? 

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, Notatbm said:

I’m thinking being burned would be hell.. how bout you? 

Apparently it’s heaven as well if you are going to insist that our belief is literal without actual evidence…this below is more evidence hellfire is seen as figurative (symbolic language for suffering) by church leaders…unless everlasting burnings is referring to the celestial glory God shines with or surrounds him as he has been described (see last quote below):

Quote

The torment of the wicked is to know they have come short of the glory they might have enjoyed.

“God has decreed that all who will not obey His voice shall not escape the damnation of hell. What is the damnation of hell? To go with that society who have not obeyed His commands. … I know that all men will be damned if they do not come in the way which He hath opened, and this is the way marked out by the word of the Lord.”¹²

“The great misery of departed spirits in the world of spirits, where they go after death, is to know that they come short of the glory that others enjoy and that they might have enjoyed themselves, and they are their own accusers.”¹³

“There is no pain so awful as that of suspense. This is the punishment of the wicked; their doubt, anxiety and suspense cause weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.”¹⁴

“A man is his own tormentor and his own condemner. Hence the saying, They shall go into the lake that burns with fire and brimstone [see Revelation 21:8]. The torment of disappointment in the mind of man is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstone. I say, so is the torment of man. …

“… Some shall rise to the everlasting burnings of God, for God dwells in everlasting burnings, and some shall rise to the damnation of their own filthiness, which is as exquisite a torment as the lake of fire and brimstone.”^15I’m 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-18?lang=eng

Edited July 15, 2025 by Calm

[Notatbm]

50 minutes ago, Calm said:

Does not refer to hell, but being burned at the second coming.

I have heard speculation it is nuclear bombs or the power of God’s glory being so intense that burns the wicked.

Perhaps our prophets ought to knock off speaking in hyperbole and just tell us the truth. If they don’t know they ought to just say so. We are taught to believe everything they say aren’t we? They always tell the truth… 

 Like what he has to say about teaching the truth. A lesson many of our leaders skipped out on before the essays showed up. 

[Pyreaux]

1 hour ago, Notatbm said:

Well D &C 64:23 is pretty straightforward about burning non-tithepayers at the second coming: 

“23 Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice⁠, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.”

We also know that tithing or donating to any organization except for the lds church does not count as tithing. For example, I as a Mormon will not be considered a tithepayer if i choose to tithe to another church or NGO who accepts “tithing” or donations. If I do that and not pay a full ten percent of my “increase, income, interest” or whatever the standard is to the Mormon church, I will be burned at the second coming. 

the ad isn’t too far off. All non Mormons will burn at the second coming. Also all not full tithe paying Mormons will burn as well. 

Not true, you don't know what you are talking about. You're wrong on multiple levels both doctrinally and procedurally.

Firstly, members absolutely define their own tithe; whether it's gross, net, after expenses and taxes, or gave to another church or charity, or even zero if you feel you weren't blessed.

From the General Handbook (2024, Section 34.4.1): “Each member determines what constitutes a full tithe.”

There is no fixed standard imposed by the Church. A bishop cannot tell you how much to pay, nor can he challenge your definition of a tithe.

It's true that donating to outside organizations is not usually considered tithing by the standard definition, but if they say they are a full tithepayer in tithing settlement or a temple recommend interview, that answer stands. A bishop cannot override or dispute your declaration, unless there’s clear evidence of deception, which is exceedingly rare and not something the Church polices. If someone feels they donated elsewhere out of genuine spiritual intent, and they feel right declaring themselves a full tithepayer: that’s respected.

Elder Jeffrey R. Holland (Ensign, June 1987) stated: “It is a matter between the individual and the Lord; leaders are not to pry into the member’s income, accounting methods, or motives.”

And, saying “no” doesn’t necessarily bar you from the temple - it depends on your intent, not dollar amount. Your claim that people are threatened with hellfire for donating to other charities is just a gross distortion. The Church doesn't teach that, and it doesn’t punish people for sincere giving. If you're going to criticize, at least learn how tithing and temple interviews actually work instead of inventing a system of divine punishment that lives only in your imagination.

Secondly, in scripture, "burning" is used across the Bible and LDS texts and is indeed hyperbolic metaphor for divine judgment or spiritual separation, not literal fire or eternal hell.

Like Malachi 3–4 speaks of the “refiner’s fire” and the day that shall burn as an oven, urging people to return to God. D&C 64 is using the same style as a call to the Saint to faithfulness, not declaring who exactly will or won’t survive Jesus’s return based on one commandment. Its not a condemnation of outsiders.

The Church does not teach that non-members will be “burned” just for not paying tithing. It does teach those who keep covenants will be spiritually protected. LDS doctrine teaches that non-members will be judged according to the light they have (D&C 137:7–9), not held accountable for covenants they never made.

In short: no, you’re not going to be “burned at the Second Coming” for tithing to the Red Cross or not joining the LDS Church.

D&C 137:9: “...the Lord will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts.”

2 Nephi 9: Those who die without the law, and who would have accepted it, are not condemned.

President Dallin H. Oaks (2019): "all will have a fair opportunity to receive salvation, whether in this life or the next.”

So. Yes, it's very far off, because:

LDS missionaries do not preach hellfire. You've oversimplified the theology, misrepresented the purpose of tithing, and ignored the broader LDS emphasis on mercy, judgment by intent, and salvation for all willing souls, even after death. And have a pretty extreme misreading of a symbolic verse. Using one verse to justify those painting the entire faith and its missionaries as fire-and-brimstone preachers is despicable.

[Pyreaux]

1 hour ago, Notatbm said:

Here’s another one:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/video/2010-07-0057-those-tithed-not-burned-at-his-coming?lang=eng

“Those Tithed Shall Not Be Burned at His Coming” is a short video dramatizing Doctrine & Covenants 64:23, but like all Church videos, it uses symbolic imagery to teach principles, not fire-and-brimstone dogma.

What the video does:

Illustrates there are spiritual blessings of obedience to God’s law - in this case, tithing. The “burning” metaphor to emphasize preparation for the Second Coming is borrowing Christ's imagery in his parables. 

What it does not do:

It does not say non-members or non-tithepayers will literally be incinerated. It does not present tithing as the only condition for salvation. It does not threaten punishment to sincere people outside the Church. It’s meant for members, not outsiders.

What you seem to suggest it does:

Jesus saying people who don’t abide in Him are “cast into the fire and burned” (John 15:6) means all non-Christians go to hell.

Jesus' parable of the ten virgins would mean 50% of members of Christ's church are doomed for running out of oil and go to hell.

LDS theology is deeper than that - and far more merciful. If you want to argue against LDS doctrine, fine — but have the integrity to represent it honestly. The only burning going on is this Straw Man you've set on fire.

[Notatbm]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

This is one of those times when taking a scripture out of context creates confusion. 

We don't believe that all non mormons will be burned (remember that one of the tenets of our faith is that no one is held accountable for not keeping a law they do not know is a law--and even if they were taught it, their responsibility would be based on what they personally knew, not on one standard of knowledge), and we also don't believe that paying tithing is a get out of jail free card.

I didn’t present tithing as a get out of jail free card.  Just illustrated our own canonized scriptures state one will be burned if they don’t pay tithing. That’s it. 
 

Mormon church looks at all tithing and donations as not being tithing unless paid into ensign peak. 
 

 

[Notatbm]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

I would be interested if you can find anyone leader describing hell as literally sitting in the middle of a bonfire or lake of flames.

You can go look for that if you like. I don’t know that even exists. I was making the point that it has been said by prophets (and scriptures). If you are saying we need to stop taking them seriously then I have got this nailed as I have not taken them seriously other than taking them at their word. Whether I believe them or not. 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Notatbm said:

Perhaps our prophets ought to knock off speaking in hyperbole and just tell us the truth.

Symbolism is not hyperbole.

You still haven’t shown anyone saying it’s not figurative, so who isn’t telling the truth?

Or are you suggesting ancient prophets never used symbolic language and therefore current prophets presenting it as symbolic/figurative are somehow lying?  If so, not impressed by your scholarship.

Edited July 15, 2025 by Calm