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Posts posted by staccato

  1. In the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom I doubt there will be an exactly equal number of men and women. If I had to guess I would say there will be more women. This leads me to believe there will have to be polygamy in heaven. But I certainly don't think it will be mandatory.

    What on earth would give you the impression of gender numbers in the CK?

  2. I don't know if it has been mentioned already, but in the case of mormonism, there is a little notion called covenant that I think makes people feel their faith will have more grit to it. They are promised that if they do certain things, God is bound to respond in certain ways. This two-sided negotiation (or alleged negotiation) with a divine being can give an illusion that a person can actually bind God to do what they want.

    This is the not the case. One cannot negotiate with God to try to arrive at a desired outcome. Covenant mentality is without substance.

  3. I was taught in Sunday School and Aaronic Priesthood that before we were created as spirits, we existed eternally as ingelligences. That is, we were self-aware entities without a spirit body. What exactly that means, I don't know, but it does resolve the apparent contradiction that seems to concern you. God created our spirit bodies for us out of spirit material the same way He created our physical bodies, but before even that, we were ourselves. Whatever flaws we had then constitute the "mess he didn't make, but is cleaning up for us."

    Assuming, of course, that I was taught correctly.

    Yours under the ternary oaks,

    Nathair /|\

    Does God get to bear some of the responsibility for putting these wheels into motion? If God knows beforehand all of the suffering, and knows beforehand how few will actually achieve some degree of success in this trial of fire (which is not many), yet he chooses to create both the spiritual and then the physical body which is needed in order to endure such atrocities in life.......is he not the responsible entity here?

    Of course he is.

  4. It won't matter. All divisions we have in this life are the result of sin, which divisions won't exist in the next.

    And what was said was "almost any two people" can make it work in this life.

    Why do you think this is the case? Before this life ever was, according to mormon theology, there was a huge division and sin (defined as separated from the will of God). Why do you think this would never occur after this life?

  5. Malcom Potts, wrote that, when it came to developing nations, abortion was even better than birth control: "Early abortion is safe, effective, cheap and potentially the easiest method to administer."

    I spent five minutes looking for the original source for this quote to see if it was connected to an implication that "abortion was even better than birth control."

    I couldn't find it.

  6. I don't understand it either, but I like what was posted above

    " I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things. " (1 Nephi 11:17)

    Really? This world is God's idea of loving his children? This does not explain the nature of suffering and pain. At. All. It requires some serious distortion and myopic exclusion of some very inconvenient truths about the history and current state of man in order to do so. Even if one goes the deistic route and chooses to exclude God's involvement with mankind, it still does not negate the reality that God designed such a plan and put those wheels in motion.

    With this kind of love, it makes you glad God doesn't hate his children, huh?

  7. Exaltation is the highest degree and one must be sealed to a spouse. One can be in the CK without being exalted.

    What D&C 132:17 says about those who aren't married: "For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever."

    So the celestial kingdom status is no longer an exalted status? You live in the presence of God and this is not an exalted status?

  8. I wonder if anyone here can shed some light on some interesting changes in Gospel Principles. In the new, 2009 edition, the following statement appears in the chapter on exaltation: “We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next” (278, emphasis added). Contrast this statement with the unqualified statement found in the same place in earlier editions of the book: “We must be married for time and all eternity” (Gospel Principles, 1978 ed., 226); “We must be married for time and eternity” (1997 ed., 303). The same sort of qualification or exception seems to be suggested in some footnotes in the chapters on family and marriage (2009 ed., 208, 213, 220). Again, these footnotes do not appear in earlier editions of the book.

    Just bringing the thread around to the beginning. Doctrinally speaking apparently one does not have to be married for eternity in order to reach the celestial kingdom, i.e. exaltation.

  9. I was taught that single ministering angels are positioned on a level in the celestial kingdom. Is this now being taught differently?

    We may be angels, if we are righteous enough. Even unmarried, we may reach the celestial kingdom, but we will be ministering angels only. Spencer W. Kimball, “The Importance of Celestial Marriage,” Ensign, Oct 1979, 3
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