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Zakuska

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Posts posted by Zakuska

  1. You all do know that what 'savedwheat' is promoting is actually Satan worship?

    The Devil is from mars ya know.  The RED planet is traditionally linked to Satan worship and the war in heaven and the fallen watchers.

    http://www.satansrapture.com/gen64.htm

    http://www.mt.net/~watcher/mars.html

    http://www.biblenews1.com/planets/red_planet/redplanet.htm

    Quote

    The name, Mars, came from Satan.  It refers to Satan as the god of war, who was defeated when Jesus Christ paid for the sins of the world on the Cross.  The name, Mars, is blasphemy.  The Romans, who were hoodwinked by the devil, named the planet; and scientists, who are no smarter, have continued the deception.  This is just another lie of Satan, the master of deceit, in an attempt to hide the truth of the Cross. 

    Why Gods New Jerusalem would take up residence on Satans Planet is anyones guess.

  2. 1 hour ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

    I swear I thought I made this thread, but I searched and couldn't find one so maybe I didn't. People who go to Outer Darkness are called Sons of Perdition. Sons. No mention of any daughters of perdition. And women can't hold the priesthood, so don't only priesthood holders become candidates for Outer Darkness? However, the 1/3 that rebelled against God and followed Lucifer in the pre mortal world, were any of those souls female? I ask because I heard women can go to spirit prison and the Telestial Kingdom, but can't go to Outer Darkness. I'm not sure if that's true or not.

    Well... you did just make a good case for the need for polygamy. If 1/3 of males on heaven went to OD. Then if we started out even its going to be staked against the men.

  3. So our new friend Savedwheat has brought up a verse that he interprets to mean that once you are saved you are eternaly saved and can never lose your salvation. The verse in question is John 10:28-29.

    John 10
    28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
    29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

    I say Savedwheat's scriptural exegesis on the verse leaves much to be explained.

    Savedwheat seems to erroniously equate "perish" to be the antithesis of "salvation". 'Never Perish' from what? It can't mean physical death because even Peter and Paul are still in the grave.
     
    There is nothing in the verse that even talks about salvation. 

    The verses talk about the inability of 'other men' taking them from God... but says nothing about the ability of they themselves disqualifying themselves and falling from salvation through sin, slothfulness, not producing good fruit for the Lord. Its very simple for a "saved" person, to prevent the Lord from saving them in the end. And don't give me this garbage that if "I did, that I never really was saved to begin with" because every indicator says otherwise.

    If we are to believe Savedwheat's interpretation of John 10:28-29 then the Apostles who walked and talked and ate honeycomb and fish with the Savior of the World sure missed the boat because if they felt believers were "eternally saved" or "eternally secure", then there would be no reason for them to issue warnings to the believers to guard against "falling away" or "falling into temptation". No need to exhort them to good works. All of Pauls letters calling this church our that church to repentance for doing this or that thing would be completely unnecessary. The letter to the Galatians telling them they had "left their first love" and "fallen from Gods grace" back to a works based system would be rendered superfluous and foolish.  Totally unnecessary.

    Savedwheat's interpretation asks the wrong question to begin with. No one questions God's "ability" to save. That's a given. So there must be some other reason why some are saved and some are not and that's the ability for the "saved" to chose their own destiny.

    Here is a non-exhaustive list of the verses that the doctrine of "once saved always saved" violates and renders contradictory.

    Hebrews 6:6

    "If they fall away"... no need for the author to even pose the question if the author believed the people who he was talking to were eternally saved. OSAS precludes the question from even being asked.

    Parable of the Sower

    "Once saved always saved" would make it impossible for the seed to be "choked out" by briers. Nor could the seed be "snatched away" by the Birds. Once the seed was sown it couldn't be stopped. Every seed regardless of what type of soil it fell in (or no soil at all) would spontaneously grow and flourish forever unrestrained or unstoppable.

    Paul's Parable of the Olive Tree

    "Once saved always saved" would dictate that God could never "break any branches off"... nor could he "graft the natural branches back in again" because after all the natural branches were already saved, the wild branches once grafted could never be removed, and the natural branches removed would immediately be burned so no "grafting them back in" and Paul's whole warning is rendered moot.(at least according to OSAS) God would be continually grafting and prevented from ever pruning.

    Parable of the 99 and 1 sheeps
    OSAS dictates that the one sheep could never get lost to begin with. Once the sheep entered the fold of the Lord he's set for life and all eternity according to it.

    Romans 
    Israel could have never "fallen" so salvation could come to the Gentiles to begin with.

    There are many more verses that OSAS causes issues with.  Would anyone care to share any they know?

  4. For OSAS to be true. There would be no way or need for Paul to warn the Saints from being broken off the Israel (Olive) tree. Once Graphed in you would be set and need not worry what type of fruit you bore. OSAS as a doctrine fails on soooo many levels!

  5. 4 hours ago, savedwheat said:

    Since the Bible teaches OSAS Arminian and Augustine is a Calvinist, Augustine is going to Hell.

    OSAS Arminian is shown in the word of God. God gives us all sufficient grace to have the free choice to be kept.

    If this were true then every seed the sower sowed would germinate and thorns and briars would not be able to choke them out. It wouldn't matter what type of soil the seed fell upon.

  6. Another parable that has issues with losttares understanding of OSAS.

    There would be no way or need for the Lord to leave the 99 and find the one lost sheep because there would be no way for the one sheep to get "lost" in the first place.

  7. 1 hour ago, savedwheat said:

    What Paul says in Philippians 3.11 is not an expecting to be raised from the dead (for all the dead shall be resurrected), nor an anticipating the resurrection of the spirit (for the resurrection of the spirit is already accomplished at the time of new birth). No, what Paul is looking forward to is the "out-resurrection" from among the dead, which is this "best" resurrection spoken of here in 20.5, even a reigning with the Lord.

    I was un aware a "spirit" could be resurrected since resurrection literaly means a spirit being united again with its body.

  8. 17 hours ago, savedwheat said:
    28 minutes ago, savedwheat said:

     John 10.28 says those who are born-again "they shall never perish" (John 10.28).

    So if you believe it is possible a person can lose salvation once saved you yourself have never been saved.

     

    Prior to the people turning back from Christ after he told them they had to cannibalize him  to have eternal life where those people saved?

    Up until that point they had did everything he had asked them to do.  They believed... forsook all and followed him.

     

    PS> If you can't lose salvation then Christ lied when he said...

    The synoptics go on to state that Jesus quoted the

    Book of Isaiah

    , stating that

    by hearing you shall hear but not understand, by seeing you shall see and not perceive

    , and that the people were

    hard of hearing

    , with

    closed eyes Isaiah 6:9-10

    . After this, the synoptics provide an explanation of the parable:

    • The sower sows the word
    • The seeds falling on the road represent those who hear the word but dismiss it straight away - the synoptics state that the wicked one (Matthew's wording)/Satan (Mark's wording) is what takes the word away
    • The seeds falling on the rocks represent those who hear the word, but only accept it shallowly - the synoptics state that these sorts of people reject the word as soon as it causes them affliction or persecution
    • The seeds falling on thorns represent those who hear the word, and take it to heart, but allow worldly concerns, such as money and cares of this world, to choke it.
    • The seeds falling on good soil represents those who hear the word, and truly receive it spiritually, causing it to bear fruit.

    According to you those are saved

     

  9. 13 minutes ago, savedwheat said:

    "God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4.24). You can't see spirit. Our spirit has the functions of intuition, communion and conscience which you can't see.

    If "spirits" can't bee seen...how was Job able to see one?

     15 Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up:

    And thank you for quoting John 4:24...

    Christ is "spirit" too yet we can see him too.

     

     

  10. 16 minutes ago, savedwheat said:

    “Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:” John 11.25

    It is no longer I that live but Christ lives in me by the Holy Spirit.

    Paul talks about more than 1 resurrection as there are several not just two you mistakenly tought. The first resurrection is the reward of reigning during the millennial kingdom; an out resurrection from the generation rapture and resurrection.

    Not all believers receive this reward of being in the 1st resurrection.

    ROFL!  You are just making stuff up now savedwheat. No where in scripture is an "out ressurection" spoken of.

  11. 6 minutes ago, savedwheat said:

    Paul is talking about resurrection life. He is not saying he is not saved yet. He already has eternal life which is eternal, can never be lost.

    I have no idea what this "resurrection life" thing/myth is you're talking about.  Because Paul only speaks of 2 ressurections.  One that happens before the 1000 year resurrection and one the happens after it.

    If Paul already had/has it... then there was no reason what so ever for him to "reach forward" for something he had already "attained". He would already be "Perfect". Yet he himself claims he isn't "Perfect" yet.

     

  12. 5 minutes ago, Anakin7 said:

        Is this true savedwheat you are OSAS ?.

    In His Eternal Debt/Grace

                   Anakin7

    I'll let him answer. Anakin.  But the OP says it all...

    Quote

    Salvation by works is further seen in an Apostate Mormon going to Hell whereas in Christianity once saved always saved "they shall never perish" (John 10.28).

  13. 19 minutes ago, savedwheat said:

    Since salvation is not by works anyone judged by their works will not be saved because they were not good enough unless they accept who Jesus truly is.

    If that's true then why was Paul working to attain the resurrection of the Just?

    All men... Just and Unjust, Greek and Hebrew, Christian and Buddhist, Beleiver and Unbeleiver, bond or free, male and female,  alike  ALL will be judged by their works. No one is immune.

    2 Cor. 5:10

    For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

     

  14. 1 minute ago, Anakin7 said:

        savedwheat do you believe in once saved always saved ?. Thank you.

    In His Eternal Debt/Grace

                 Anakin7

    Yes he does believe in the devilish heresy of OSAS . He quoted John 10:28 several times.

  15.  

    15 minutes ago, savedwheat said:

    You misread this passage. Paul is already saved. He is looking to be in the 1st resurrection to return and reign with Christ during the 1000 years. That's the prize.

    "That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection" (Phil. 3.10). Paul declared that the one reason for his counting all things as loss was to know the power of resurrection. He did not say to know resurrection because resurrection was known at the moment he believed in the Lord. Rather, on the subjective side, he knew he must forsake all things before he could know the power of the resurrection of Christ.

    No you misread there are only two resurrections spoken of in scripture and neither one has anything to do with "beleif".

    What ressurection one receives has everything to do with ones "works".

    John 5
    29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

  16. 21 minutes ago, savedwheat said:

      Mormons don't think they are saved?

    Neither did Paul.

    If Paul already was "Saved"... why was he still trying to "win" the ressurection and become perfect "working for his salvation" YEARS after the fact?
     
    Phil 3
    8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung (skubala is the greek  equivalent of the English S**T), that I may win Christ,
    9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
    10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
    11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
    12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
    13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
    14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
     
     
  17. 2 minutes ago, savedwheat said:

    If you believe in different heavens and it takes works to get there then you believe in salvation by works, but the Bible says salvation is not by works lest anyone should boast so that would tell me the Mormon is not saved.

    Another reason is that a Mormon can still go to Hell apparently by being an apostate Mormon, whereas the Bible teaches once saved always saved (John 10.28).

    So it seems nothing much agrees in Mormonism with Christianity, yet the 66 books of the Bible are God's inherent word, perfect and unchanging.

    Too bad the word "saved" or "salvation" doesn't appear in the verse.

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