Zakuska

Dead faith can save? 

Since when?

Just now, FormerLDS said:

Jesus Christ commands us to believe, but that doesn't make belief a work that we do.

Romans 4:5 contrasts belief and works "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

Paul sure thought faith/belief was a "work" that believers did.

1 thess

1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of theThessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;

 3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labourof love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

 4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

 5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also inpower, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

 6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:

 7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.

 8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.

 9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

 10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

And more...

From what I'm seeing... you're 100 times more likely to encounter a satanic pentagram on a christian building then you are on a mormon edefice.

More Christian pentagram usage from all over the World to the present day.

So if so many Christians use the symbol on their buildings... why is it only Satanic when mormons use it on 3 different buildings?

FALSE DOCTRINE OF ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED - YouTube

Now the real question is... commandment keeping (believing) a work of righteousness that we Do?

50 minutes ago, danielwoods said:

I hesitate to respond because Former is doing such a good job. 

But, the question isn't does it "matter or not" in general, rather the question is how is eternal life attained? There is no where in the scripture where eternal life is attained or kept because we "keep his commandments". Rather, keeping his commandments is the fruit that other people can see that we have eternal life already. 

"IF you love me you will keep my commandments..." Notice that our love and connection to him is what is causing those who are in relationship to him to keep his commandments. There is no sense of "You must keep these commandments in order to keep and maintain or attain eternal life. No, this is what people who have eternal life simply do. Like fish simply swim because that's their nature. Our nature changes as a result of having eternal life. 

Huh?

1 John 3

18My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.19And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. 20For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 21Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

The very act that gets us saved  in the first place (ie believing in Christ) is a commandment from God.

So by definition... salvation is gained by obeying a commandment. There's no way around it, salvation comes from and is maintained by commandment keeping.

This would also mean that those in the parable that "believed for a while" but later fell away did indeed lose their salvation.  

OSAS is once again proven a false doctrine taught by false gospel teachers.

Savedwheat keeps mix up what God said with what Satan said...

What did God say after Adam and Eve ate the fruit?

Gen 3:22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become like one of us, to know good and evil: 

I think savewheat is worshiping the wrong God.

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Satan said you can become like God by eating the forbidden fruit.

Intresting enough... the Cross as a symbol is actually a pagan fertility symbol.

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Writers during the 19th century indicating a pagan origin of the cross included Henry Dana Ward,^[30] Mourant Brock,^[31] and John Denham Parsons.^[32] David Williams, writing of medieval images of monsters, says: "The disembodied phallus is also formed into a cross, which, before it became for Christianity the symbol of salvation, was a pagan symbol of fertility."^[33] The study, Gods, Heroes & Kings: The Battle for Mythic Britain states: "Before the fourth century CE, the cross was not widely embraced as a sign of Christianity, symbolizing as it did the gallows of a criminal."^[34]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_cross

Remenicent of the Ashara poles. Who says paganism and satanic worship hasn't ended? 

With all the hoopla this bundy inccident has raised and all the comments for and against, I have to wonder. How many armed conflicts against an over baring, armed to the teeth Federal Goverment and or corupt state goverments our own ancestors had to endure. 

Even the Jews are getting in on a little Satan worship... look at this Synagog of Satan in Los Angelos in the 1950s.

And just look at these All seeing eyes all over these Mormon buildings!

Proof positve mormons are Satanic!

Here's some more modern and not so modern uses...

Or how about these Satan Worshipers in European Cathedrals? Seems to me the inverted pentagram has been a perfectly good and holy "Christian symbol" for a very long time until it was accausted in the 1960s. 100s of years after Mormons used it.

How about the clock tower on the church that old satan worshiper who translated the bible Martin Luther built?

The things got to be six hundred and sixty six feet tall!

300 scientists want noaa to stop hidin its global warming data

http://dailycaller.com/2016/01/28/300-scientists-want-noaa-to-stop-hiding-its-global-warming-data/

They're at it again.

4 hours ago, FormerLDS said:

I've quoted almost exclusively the words of Jesus Christ.  Yep, just checked - it's all still there.

The Jesus of the Bible offers eternal life to everyone today - not just the promise of eternal life.

How do you equate "The promise of eternal life is afterwards" with "He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." (John 6:47) and "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

It would seem to me that LDS theology and the words of Jesus Christ are two different things.

If Peter had everlasting/eternal life... why did he die?

2 peter 1

¹⁴ Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

He must not have eaten Christ's flesh nor drank his blood? He must have been among those who turned back?

8 minutes ago, rongo said:

God doesn't answer us on our timetable, on demand (thank goodness for that, even though it's maddening to us at the time). Sometimes we have to wait for an answer and be patient.

That's how, Zakuska.

While I agree because of experience,  that doesn't quite fit the definitial of 'abradeth not'. Josephs answers usually came immediately. 

8 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

I've asked. Got no answer.

If James 1:5 is to believed, how is that even possible?

40 minutes ago, FormerLDS said:

In verse 54, Christ reiterates the same concept:

"Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

When does "hath eternal life" happen? 

I guess if you just prefer not to see the obvious then why discuss? 

Yet another case where the text needs to be changed in order to somehow fit into LDS theology. 

When you literal eat his flesh and drink his blood. Which won't happen till the last day.  Even Paul agrees...

Romans 8

23  And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

You aren't truly adopted into God's family until the document is officially signed and you're driving away from the orphanage with your new parents. Right now the adoption process is only in the interview stage.

I'm getting confused here.  FormerLDS is telling me because I believe I have everlasting life and savedwheat is saying that only God alone has everlasting life.  Both scriptures can't be true... 

15 minutes ago, FormerLDS said:

In John 6:40, Jesus Christ plainly reveals His will: "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

His will is that you receive eternal life today.

Except for the fact that your own verse sets the time frame for the reception of the gift of eternal life to 'the last day', and not 'today' as you misread it.

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The rejected of the Saviour in Matthew 7 did not have eternal life.  

of course they didn't and neither do you ir I until the last second ticks off the clock.

39 minutes ago, FormerLDS said:

"So all that is required in your view, to have "everlasting life" that cannot be lost is to "believe in Christ"?"

EXACTLY, but I cannot take credit for God's plan of salvation, so not really "my view".

Luke 8:13 clarifies the fact that saved people can still fall back into the sinful world.  Doesn't mean they do not have eternal life.  Think about James 2: who's faith saves?  Our faith (which can die) or the faith of Jesus Christ given to us?

This verse does not say they lost their salvation because they fell away.

A believer who falls back into a life of sin will not be saved nor has eternal life. Paul makes that abundantly clear.

Gal 5:22
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Also the verse indicates a "temporary belief" something OSAS renders impossible. 

I'm going to saddle up my tapir and mozy on into the sun set...