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Maidservant

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Posts posted by Maidservant

  1. On 6/14/2022 at 5:57 AM, Metis_LDS said:

    Please be sure that I do NOT have the complete answer to this question.

    I believe that it was not a mishap or accident that Satan got into the Garden.

    I believe that God knowing Satan was vain made it difficult but not impossible to access the Garden of Eden.

    I feel strongly that the cursing of Satan in the Garden is what explains why he was let in.

    I know persons on this board that are more clever and better writers than myself and I hope for their

    help in understanding why God let Satan into the Garden.

    We are at the point of view of history and religious thought thousands of years from when passages were initially thought, believed, and preserved. What we know or think we know about the Garden of Eden story is a mix and match and full of add-ons (warranted and unwarranted, who am I to say) beyond what is there.

    For example, if you take the OT story as we have it in King James Genesis, Satan is NOT there. The serpent is there. To say that the serpent is Satan is an add-on. (Again--warranted? unwarranted? I think a NT add-on.)

    Also the idea that Satan is the lord of evil is not a Hebrew idea, but a Greek-informed one, when we started mashing Hades (lord of the underworld) and essentiality of evil (see Greek thinker Plotinus and others--later Greek philosophy that coincided with the establishment and cultivation of Christianity was convinced of absolute essences like evil and good) in with old testament stories.

    For ancient Hebrews, Satan, or the Accuser, is a servant of God. He is always doing God's work. And to say Accuser is not so much a tempter (again--that is later Christianity) but the one who administers the test. That's like calling the LSAT proctor the devil incarnate. (Oh, wait.) The LSAT is the test, yes, but the test to greater gifts and a gate to another world. Metaphor earth life/eternal life.

    To come to earth to receive challenges and the treasure from them IS God's work and Satan actually embodies that great work, so that work is very sacred. To say 'opposition' is not to say 'evil'. These are different things.

    I am not advancing these things as LDS but I think this is what the original OT is going for when Satan is brought up. Later writings (Christianity and then Joseph Smith's movement) continued to engage with the material and ended up in a different place.

    So as you will.

  2. On 8/19/2021 at 12:18 PM, CV75 said:

    I think the principles of learning the gospel in the spirit world before the resurrection, and progressing between kingdoms after the resurrection, are basically the same in how they depend on the point of "willingness". If you are not willing to act when the opportunity presents, you erode your willingness and thus your ability to act by grace. This is why the sacrament prayer is so important, where "willing" is a key operative word for the bread, which is taken first (the body of Christ; unconditional resurrection), but not for the water (the blood of Christ; conditional exaltation, which comes later).

    I love this interpretation. But I do think there are many things to be found in the symbolism of the sacrament. The one I see the most is that "partaking of the bread" is coming to earth.

    On 8/19/2021 at 4:25 PM, JLHPROF said:

    A Terrestrial being that continued to learn and progress would unavoidably become a Celestial being eventually OR the Terrestrial environment would be forced to admit new truth beyond the Terrestrial level.

    One carries their kingdom with them. What you have prepared your body to be is true at whatever point you arrive there. We were once taught, for example, that our homes could be heaven. These "levels" are not places as much as they are US . . . or not.

    On 8/27/2021 at 9:11 AM, telnetd said:

    How do you understand this passage:

    "For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, 
    behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors.  
    And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, 
    therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your 
    repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us 
    to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in 
    this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no 
    labor performed. Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, 
    that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; 
    for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye 
    go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body 
    in that eternal world. For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of 
    your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the 
    spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of 
    the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil 
    hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked
    "

    Just because one played a basketball game and got a final score doesn't mean that one never plays another basketball ever again.

    And this scripture is less about destiny and more about the correlation between what you choose becomes who you are . . . a repeat of what I said above.

    ======================================

    And to the main question . . .

    We are now in the process of progressing from one 'kingdom' to another as is made plain in the temple and in the gospel entire; and are being ministered to by those from higher realms. So . . . yes?

  3. Tithing settlement has to be one of my favorite meetings. I rarely attend Sunday services anymore, but I joyfully went to my tithing settlement. I looked forward to the bishop praying over me especially that the windows of heaven would open for me. That prayer is, for me, the main reason for the tithing settlement. and P.S. I will likely never be in a temple recommend interview again. That is more Melchizedek priesthood territory. Tithing settlement is more Aaronic priesthood and related to my baptismal, but not my temple, covenants.

  4. On 10/20/2021 at 5:57 PM, Teancum said:

    Mosiah 3:19:

    19 For the anatural bman is an cenemy to God, and has been from the dfall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he eyields to the enticings of the fHoly Spirit, and gputteth off the hnatural man and becometh a isaint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a jchild, ksubmissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

     

     

    Why would God create creatures that are his enemy? In Christian thought there are varying ideas on the purpose of creation amongst Christian sects and Mormonism certainly has a unique view.  And then there are the philosophies of the Omni's and some LDS thinkers have some interesting ideas on this though LDS scripture seem to tilt towards the more general understanding.  I think the  omnis play into this. More on this later.

    But one thought.  In LDS thought humans were supposed to fall from grace.  Adam and Eve had to fall. Sin had to be introduced into the world.  We would all sin so we were destined to become God's enemy. It was planned. This to me some like an insidious plan to create us to have to start as God's enemy.  So let's talk about it.

     

    I haven't read the entire thread, so sorry if this is a repeat or has been hashed. But it caught my attention because I am in the middle of reading Fiona and Terryl Givens' book All Things New: Rethinking Sin, Salvation, and Everything in Between and they suggest that the scriptural meaning (New Testament) of natural man was not about how we were born nor our base nature but how we find ourselves in the world--the paradigms we are born to and which have bound us away from God.

  5. Our living is also the fruit. If we live according to integrity, our blessing IS integrity. If we live according to love, our blessing IS love. If we live serving our family, our blessing IS our family. If we choose to cultivate a firm mind that sees what is good and God, we will be surrounded by good and God.

    Blessings are not meted out by someone outside of ourselves. We are given the principles and invited to participate in our own planting and our own harvest.

    The love and the blessings are always there--always accessible by our own recognition and preparation.

  6. 12 hours ago, Tacenda said:

    You reminded me of how much I miss your posts Maidservant! I also have 5 children and a couple or more probably don't want kids and are similar to the child or children you mentioned. 

    Women are put into situations where if they aren't happy but have no self made income, they are stuck depending. I'm impressed that you did all that you have. I bet your children are proud of their  mama!

     

    Thank you, my dear. Yes, I make it round here occasionally :). Good to see you.

  7. On 4/8/2021 at 10:49 AM, marineland said:

    I started reading this manual of the church.   I have a question about a teaching
    of Ezra Taft Benson in lesson 1.

    "Much of the Christian world today rejects the divinity of the Savior. They question 
    His miraculous birth, His perfect life, and the reality of His glorious resurrection. 

    What does "Christian world" mean?  Can someone even be considered a Christian if he
    or she denies the biblical teachings of Christ's divinity, his miraculous birth, his
    perfect life, and his resurrection?

    Tony

    Maybe he had Christian progressives in mind; as in Jesus "the great teacher and rebel" and whatnot, but nothing particularly miraculous or salvific.

  8. The 'war in heaven' is right now. This is it. One son has been giving his presentation for thousands of years and we have had that captivity because we have chosen and embodied that plan (collectively, not necessarily individually).

    I think the term 'struggle' is better than war.

    The struggle is for the purpose of coming into union (love) with one anther while preserving freedom.

    In 1 Nephi 14 we are taught that there are only two paths. One path is captivity and destruction. One path is liberty, peace, and life.

    Hopefully, the presentation of the second son (the second who spoke) is about to begin over most of the earth (although it has been available for individuals and small groups at all times), where liberty, peace, and life will be the fruit of embodying the plan and knowledge of this son.

    What is your vote? Which son? You can only vote by embodying the vote.

  9. Justice is not a penalty. Justice is not subtraction. It is restoration. Justice IS mercy.

    What you have done unto the least, you have done unto me.

    You can come into the feast at any time.

    Isaiah chapter 1:11-17

    What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices? I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed beasts; I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs, or of goats.When you come to appear before me, who has required of you this trampling of my courts? Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations—I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly.Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates; they have become a burden to me; I am weary of bearing them.When you spread out your hands, I will hide my eyes from you; even though you make many prayers, I will not listen; [I don't care about your baptisms and your priesthood; your special musical numbers and your Sunday School classes; I'm tired of your films and robes . . . that's pretty much what he's saying to a previous generation]

    YOUR HANDS ARE FULL OF BLOOD
       
    Wash yourselves [OF THE BLOOD]; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes; cease to do evil, learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow's cause.

    verse 27: ZION SHALL BE REDEEMED BY JUSTICE

  10. 3 hours ago, Kevin Christensen said:

    In preparing it, I had the insight that Revelation 5:2-4 asks, "Who is worthy to open and read the book?" and the Lamb takes the book, the implication is that we are the book he read, all of our lives, intimately, every moment, with complete awareness and empathy, including every act and experience that is utterly contrary to his nature and desire, so much so that he can truthfully say "Whatsoever ye have done unto the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."  That insight makes him the righteous judge, "to bring about the bowels of mercy, which overpowereth justice, and bringeth about means unto men they they may have faith unto repentence." (Alma 34:15). 

    Really beautiful.

     

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    I don't consider CHRIST or GOD to be one person, but rather the union of all beings in a state of joy. So the Christ or atonement template works differently with that.

  11. My favorite is found in A Course in Miracles. And also the New Testament but most people don't use it that way. I just started reading The Forgotten Way by Dekker, I'm curious to see where he takes it. But he has begun by saying that a true Christian keeps no record of wrongs, so that is similar to ACIM.

    A Course in Miracles is really hard to put in a nutshell, I know that the one I am going to will be misunderstood. But it is that we are innocent, and the atonement is that we remember that.

    Also I am starting to read some Bonhoeffer and I am seeing shades of that in his writing.

  12. 9 hours ago, Mark Beesley said:

     “God”

    Don't get stuck on the English word 'God'. For as much good as it can hold, it can also lead astray. Hebrew is better for understanding the depths of the history of this reality we now say in English as 'God'.

    The main point is, is that as Beings we have the capacity for unlimited potential and we are on a journey to reach that, in time and eternity. It's really not that mysterious. But it is wonderful.

  13. 4 hours ago, marineland said:

    I am Christian, but not a member of your church.  When I read that article, it says the ten
    virgins are members of Christ's church (which I assume is only the LDS Church from other
    church teachings).

    Based on these words, it seems to be a literal 50%.

    The arithmetic of this parable is chilling. The ten virgins obviously represent members of 
    Christ’s Church, for all were invited to the wedding feast and all knew what was required to 
    be admitted when the bridegroom came. But only half were ready when he came” (Dallin H. Oaks,
    “Preparation for the Second Coming,” Ensign or Liahona, May 2004, 8
    ).

    A church leader quote can be found for everything within two hundred years of speeches.

    I read the scriptures and come to my own understanding. I can find a quote for that, too.

    As far as I can tell from this quote (without reading the whole speech), I think Elder Oaks' point is that preparation is real, not just getting a ticket for being in the (so-called) right Church (or whatever token).

    P.S. You don't even have to be Christian to be prepared.

  14. I recently wrote this bit about the Shiz/Coriantumr story etc.:

    ///////////////////////////////////

    The Book of Mormon is the parable presentation of two societies whose end became complete destruction with only one man left alive.

    In one example, the man was the individual who "won". He was the last man standing after killing the second-to-last-man standing. He looked out on vast fields of dead and rotting human beings. The armies had been kin of the same nation with their main point of conflict being blood revenge rules (stupid!) and fighting over which of the ruling class would be their tyrant--which flavor of oppression they preferred better. That man regretted his own indulgences of doing whatever was necessary to live a victory life (that's not what he got!), but it was too late. He lived to an old age as a broken-hearted relic in another community that took him in.

    In the other example, the man last left had reluctantly participated as a general in the fighting since his family (ancestry) were military men; even though he also tried to be a man of God. He had to fight not so much in defense, but because their own people were trigger happy on the offense and were hungry for war; enmity that was a remnant of a hundreds-year-old narrative that had probably lost accuracy and nuance whilst increasing in grievance and hatred; and that had begun in the mists of history with brothers that couldn't learn to love each other. He felt a loyalty to the same name/nation they were under, so at first he fought. He eventually made the choice to stop fighting which made running, wandering, and hiding his only other choice; which lonely and dangerous existence he lived out the rest of his days.

    "They were given up unto the hardness of their hearts, and the blindness of their minds . . . They were drunken with anger, even as a man who is drunken with wine; and they slept . . . upon their swords." Ether 15:19-22

    How drunk are you with anger? Are you sleeping on your sword? How attached are you to your narrative of enmity that you inherited from generations before?

    The reason there are two stories like this in the Book of Mormon is to warn us not to become the third.

    "Enoch said unto the Lord: How is it that thou canst weep, seeing thou art holy, and from all eternity to all eternity? . . . The Lord said unto Enoch: Behold these THY BRETHREN . . . I have said that they should love one another . . . but behold, they are without affection, and they hate their own blood." (The Book of Moses 7:28-33, Pearl of Great Price)

    Are you still buying up armies and navies with the desires of your heart or the consents of your ignorance, so that blood and horror may reign on the earth?

    Or are you willing to release your enmity, know your brethren affectionately, and become a Christ?

    /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    Only One Left SMALLER.jpg

    Forgiveness.jpg

  15. On 11/27/2020 at 7:20 PM, TheTanakas said:

    I had some questions on this section of the manual.  Rather than break it up into individual
    threads, I hope its ok to include all in one to make it simpler.

    https://media.ldscdn.org/pdf/manuals/come-follow-me-for-individuals-and-families-book-of-mormon-2020/individuals-and-families-book-of-mormon-2020-large-print-eng.pdf

    This section covers Ether, chapters 12-15.  Many events were skipped over but I noticed
    them when my family and I were reading the chapters. 

    Ether 12:7 said  "For it was by faith that Christ showed himself unto our fathers, after 
    he had risen from the dead; and he showed not himself unto them until after they had 
    faith in him
    ".  

    But this is not how Nephi recorded it. The people in the land of Bountiful didn't 
    believe it was Jesus until after they saw him and felt his body (3 Nephi 11-14-17).
      
    Ether 12:30 said "For the brother of Jared said unto the mountain Zerin, Remove-and it 
    was removed. And if he had not had faith it would not have moved; wherefore thou workest 
    after men have faith
    ".  

    Where was it moved to?  Or did the mountain just disappear?

    Ether 13:7 said the "Lord brought a remnant of the seed of Joseph out of the land of 
    Jerusalem, that he might be merciful unto the seed of Joseph that they should perish not
    "

    Does this mean that no descendants of Joseph were exiled to Babylonian captivity or remained
    alive in Jerusalem?

    Ether 14:1 said "And now there began to be a great curse upon all the land because of 
    the iniquity of the people, in which, if a man should lay his tool or his sword upon 
    his shelf, or upon the place whither he would keep it, behold, upon the morrow, he could 
    not find it, so great was the curse upon the land
    ".

    Has this ever happened anywhere else in the Book of Mormon? 
      
    Ether 14:10 said "And then cometh the New Jerusalem; and blessed are they who dwell therein, 
    for it is they whose garments are white through the blood of the Lamb; and they are they 
    who are numbered among the remnant of the seed of Joseph, who were of the house of Israel
    ".

    Why is there no mention of the residents being members of the seed of other tribes?

    Ether 14:17 says that Shiz overthrew and burned the cities.

    Does this mean they were made of wood instead of cement and/or steel?

    Ether 15 mentions the great war, where millions were killed.  From what I see, it lasted
    8 days.  Verse 14 says they prepared four years for the battle.  Verses 15-29 details the 
    days of battle.  Day 1 (v.15), day 2 (v. 17), day 3 (v. 20), day 4 (v. 21), day 5 (v. 23), 
    day 6 (v. 24), day 7 (v. 27), day 8 (v. 29).

    At the end of 8 days of battle, millions were killed and all but one survived?

    Pete

    Great questions.

    I want to caution you as I often take the opportunity to caution anyone on the same matter. Scriptures (Book of Mormon, Bible, Quran, etc) aren't true or valuable or 'a feast' because they are reconcilable. Lots and lots and lots of things don't make sense and match up within the scriptures. You'll find many contradictions. Many reject the scriptures when they become defeated in their inability to reconcile everything all together, as if that was the promise the scriptures held out. "We promise you," the scriptures say (do NOT say), "that we are completely reconcilable and through this reconciliation you will be saved." NOT. NOT! I'm not saying that you are rejecting the scriptures, but I see you here reaching for reconciliation, and don't worry if you never do manage to have it all line up in perfect sense. It doesn't mean you've missed the truth or the food that is there, the salvation that is there, the living water that is there.

    In fact, it is in the very cracks of the scriptures where they don't match up that I often fall down a deep hole of revelation and feast to the degree that most of the scripture I read when I open the books isn't even what is written in English on the page. There's a set of scriptures between the lines of what is written.

    Going along with that, and despite appearances since they seem to be ancient stories, the scriptures (Book of Mormon et al) are not meant to be descriptions of the past or the future, nor to provide a historical timeline of any kind. They specifically relate to YOUR PROGRESSION, RIGHT NOW. Every single word, verse, story, chapter, book. YOUR REDEMPTION AND PROGRESSION. There is very little worth in them otherwise. These progressions aren't always or almost never are ethical proscriptions, but they are literally maps or patterns that we have the capacity to move from one to the other and become new creatures. And the maps aren't all in order. The reveal themselves to you over time of deep study--where a single phrase in the Doctrine in Covenants goes along with a section of, say, Habbakuk which is blown wide open when you hear a particular story of the life of Lord Krishna and sets you to laughing and changes the cells in your body when you see the very same thing, plain as day, in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. And then you see it taking place in real time with real human beings.

    Having said that, let me make some notes on the things you are curious about. Obviously, I don't have complete answers, because they can only come to you as YOUR answers for YOU. Ether is HIGHLY symbolic, HIGHLY. Not low or medium symbolic. HIGH. Ether is not the beginner's map.

    verse 7 note: any time the scriptures speak of the visitation of Christ, this is not particularly a historical timeline appearance, but a progression in YOU: the visitation of CHRIST that you will experience;

    note on faith: scriptural faith is NOT a fervency of desire and believing--faith IS creation; namely the becoming of YOU and then further as you bless your loved ones and your community until we all come to Zion

    note on the houses: they were nomadic tents, so flammable

    note on the story of Shiz and Coriantumr: this story was added as a second witness to the message Mormon wanted to make with the Book of Mormon; Moroni added the story, continuing his father's mission. They both had watched their civilization fall to uninterrupted bloodshed; and Moroni showed another story where something happened like it; and the point is to urge us not to do the same.

    note on the mountain:

     

  16. On 11/28/2020 at 9:27 AM, marineland said:

    Does this mean 50 percent of all Latter-day Saints will not participate in the Marriage

    Supper of the Lamb?

    Tony

    Most numbers in the scriptures are symbolic. Are you Christian? Does it mean 50 percent of Christians? Or 50 percent of humanity? Or is there something more important to be gained from it? It's possible the number doesn't matter at all here, simply the binary of prepared-not prepared. Not all LDS are permanently stuck in scripture interpretation kindergarten.

     

    On 11/28/2020 at 11:06 AM, CV75 said:

    No, only five.

     

    On 11/28/2020 at 2:18 PM, katherine the great said:

    Lol! And all five are virgins. 

    I mean, that's what it says in the scriptures. 🙄

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