sweetpotatoh

The talk by Brother Uchtdorf was one of the finest talks I have ever heard. Just beautiful.

Defenders of the church also have decided from the "Git Go" that their position is correct. It only seems like a viable explanation because that is YOUR pre-conceived belief system and you must support it, despite no evidence. IE: Book of Mormon as a historical document, BOA etc. Joseph Smith's criminal history is ample evidence that he had it in him to do it. Could Joseph Smith have fabricated so called plates...of course he could have. He demostrated the same behaviour when trying to convince people to invest in the illegal bank he chartered. Namely, placing coins in the tops of boxes that were filled below with something else, giving the illusion that the bank had money. It didn't and it went under in a flame. He certainly had people around him who could have fabricated something to look like plates.

We have plenty of evidence. First and foremost the testimonies of each and every one of us who has received witness to the truth by the power of the Holy Ghost. Joseph Smith was a prophet and he received the plates from our Father in Heaven. He translated the plates and produced The Book of Mormon by his obedience to God.

There has always been resistance to the truth. The world will always side against the church and Christ. The only way to know is through the witness of the Holy Ghost.

Best post ever!!!!

I was having a conversation with my wife after some show about archaeology that featured 10,000 year old humanoid fossils. This discussion led to 6,000 year old Biblical history and how to rationalize the scripture with science.  I did my best to offer my views that reconcile apparent contradictions.

 

A bit surprisingly to me, my wife was not bothered by the doctrinal explanations, but by the fact that many of the manuals, institute teachers, church culture, etc. seem to perpetuate young earth concepts and interpretation that mislead the youth (and adults) into falsehoods and faith crises.  "If this is the true church", she asked "then why does the Lord permit the continual teaching of untruths?"  The word "true" is among the most used words in the LDS vocabulary and her concern was that the word had no validity, or that we could not rightly claim to be "true" if there is no attempt to correct or at least stop perpetuating teachings that weren't ... well... true.  If we don't see some guidance or direction in these types of things, then what prevents our eventual apostasy?  What makes us any more true than any other church?

 

These are the types of questions that came up.  I am working through my thoughts on answering them, but I would welcome some insights.

 

 

I am reading a couple of books by Hugh Nibley that were lectures given at BYU from religion classes he was teaching. He states many times that the earth is oleder then 7,000 years and may have been used for other purposes and for other peoples.. As to why the church states that mankind is 6,000 years old I believe that modern man is between 6 and 7 thousand years old. What happened prior to Adam occured for other purposes that we aren't privy to. It is certainly food for thought.

If you have an ipad or iphone and an apple tv you can stream BYU Tv to your tv. Which is what we do. We cut the cable a couple of years ago. We do have internet, Netflix and Hulu. Stil cheaper then cable.

_{Good luck.}

The political part worries me, because I am either a very soft Republican or just don't have any politics. Issues are more important to me.  So, you are saying that I would perhaps have to be a "Molly Mormon", what ever that is.

I have found that there is a nice mix of people that have come from all over the US. I have never run across any mean people there.

Politically it is conservative. The Church is strong and my sister loves her ward. My father was just put in the bishopric and he loves his ward.

Someone suggested that you take a trip there. That is a good idea. There is everything you could need there as far as stores go. And Las Vegas is about 2 hours away if you need a big city.

If you have an income, you could live there cheaply. I was at the pool in Vejo a month ago and a gentleman approached me and mentioned he moved there from Southern California. He had heard me talking about San Diego. He said his retirement goes a lot further there than San Clemente.

If you do visit pm me. I can hook you up with some free pizza.

Hopefully so, apparently there are a lot there according to a comment section of the St. George newspaper and if one goes to Las Vegas they have to be registered in that state and can't use the local VA clinic...so if they use the local VA clinic, for big stuff they have to go to SL.

 

Don't know if this is accurate or not, it was from an article in 2011.

My father prefers Las Vegas. Closer and they are better equipped to deal with his circumstances.

I suspect that she is saying that there may be Molly Mormons there.   But Molly Mormonhood does not equal conservative politics necessarily.

For the record, I'm a guy. I do have 5 sisters, no brothers and three daughters, no sons. I think The Lord is trying to teach me something. Lol.

The donkeys are horrible this year, as is the whole MWC. Peterson definitely has his work cut out. They will probably sweep their conference, seeing how weak it is. It looks like the MWC is the weaker than the Big Sky, and they are FCS.

Lost in Ohio? How did you get that name? I lived near Kirtland for a year and met the Mormon Sisters there.

 

As to moving to St George, I must pray about it more. I am retired, and use the VA for my medical care.

Ellen,

My parents live in Ivins, west of St. George. They retired there. They moved from Provo. My dad goes to Las Vegas to see the VA. I heard they were building a VA hospital in St. George.

St. George Is full of people who are from somewhere else. My sister owns a pizza restaurant in St. George. She bought and then moved there. If you need a job, good luck. There aren't any big employers and wages are low.

The church is strong and dominates local politics. Hope you like conservative politics cause Obama is a four letter word in St. George.

In spite of the overly conservative culture, there is much to love about St. George. If wages weren't so low there we would probably have moved there instead of San Diego. Just for the record, in spite of the overly liberal culture, there is much to love about California.

We visit a couple of times a year and really love the area. Check out the pool in Vejo. It's beautiful. Red cliffs recreation area is awesome in late spring when there is still water flowing thru the red rock canyon. Close to Zion national park, Bryce Canyon and the north rim of the Grand Canyon.

It sounds like its a your hubby thing. When I am sick, I do what is necessary to get well. I am a husband and father. Maybe his pride is getting in the way.

In a work environment it is not a good thing to go to work sick. It can spread and wipe everyone out. It also takes longer to heal if you can't rest.

I hope he will get well.

In light of the recent discussions spurred by Hans Mattsson's "coming out" as a doubter, I decided to re-read some letters sent by LDS historians to Elder Boyd K. Packer in 1981 in response to his now-famous address, "The Mantle Is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect."

Reading these letters, it is difficult to escape the impression that some of these historians truly saw our day. One letter, by James L. Clayton, struck me as being especially prescient:

Another respondent to Elder Packer's talk wrote:

So here we are, 30 plus years later, with the Church now reaping the whirlwind from its policy of withholding uncomfortable truths and presenting a selective, sanitized history to its members (apparently not having anticipated the reach of Google and YouTube and the blogosphere).

The Church now appears to be in damage control mode (a belated but welcome development in my view), sending flying columns of historians and church functionaries out to stanch the bleeding. I think we can safely say that a major shift has taken place when we hear Elder Jensen telling the Swedish Saints that Elder Packer (!) has directed the Church History department to "put together a committee to create answers to difficult gospel questions."

Packer may have advocated for a sanitized version of our religion. But it was an institute class at Utah State that introduced me to Joseph Smith's treasure hunting. My Mother taught me about polygamy and the various estimates on how many wives JS had at an early age.

What responsibility do parents have in teaching about the churches history? Was there a shift in what was taught after the talk by BKP? I don't see the church scrambling to put out fires. I see them responding to a new need that the members have.

First, let me say this: many, if not the majority of, people use alcohol without getting involved in prostitution.

Second, a Mormon rumspringa would show young people that a life without arbitrary religious rules may actually be liberating and may not work out in favor of the church.

Wickedness never was happiness. Alma 41:10

I don't think there is progression between kingdoms. I don't think a telestial body can abide the glory of the two higher kingdoms. We are resurrected to the glory we aspire to. If you die in wickedness you will inherit the reward for doing so. One who desired wickedness and didnt repent, cannot stand in the realm of the Son or Father.

That said, I believe that there is progression within a kingdom.

But then you have to get a really good AC for things like the heat wave that Cali this week =p.

Not if you live on the coast.

Dang Utah Mormons.

Are you suggesting what might be truth for one reader of Miracle of Forgiveness could be falsity for another?

--Erik

Not at all. I am suggesting the capacity to understand the truth differs from one individual to the next. Therefore God will reveal what can be understood at that moment.

When we rely on our own understanding we are apt to stumble. Have you ever wondered why there are so many Churches? Pastors? Denominations? It's because men interpret things differently. When we rely on Men's interpretations we stumble. If you want to know what is truth and what isn't it is essential to have the Holy Ghost.

Understanding Truth isn't as black and white as you think. Sometimes we aren't ready for more truth, because we have to grow before we can understand it. That is why it is essential to have the Holy Ghost. That is why we can study the scriptures for a lifetime and still learn.

Most modern churches deny revelation, god has spoken all that he will. Then you get all the different sects and pastors competing for a limited number of members. As to what is truth in The Miracle of Forgiveness, that is between the reader and Heavenly Father.

Thats nice to know, but doesnt solve anything. He, or any other example you wish to give, is not an official authority figure in the church.

Yours is the age old question of authority. Who, what, why and where. That is why the Holy Ghost is so important. He testifies to truth, wherever it is found. While a book written by a GA may not contain 100% truth, the Holy Ghost will testify to the truth contained in the book. Whether it is a quote over the pulpit or a sermon on the radio the Holy Ghost testifies and witnesses truth. That's one reason I love The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. We have the means to know.

The most obvious, but least recognize Mormonish theme in the show is all about the pre-mortal life. The shirtless Clark Kent is completely based on what I looked like in the pre-mortal life. Well, that was before I was terribly wounded and disfigured in the war in heaven.

Man boobs!!!!

Welcome to California. I'm just down the coast in San Diego, America's Finest City. Have a friend who teaches sailing at Dana Point. Have fun in Idaho, it's a great place to visit.

If you found car keys they aren't mine.

http://www.whatthebi...troduction.html

This indepth website discusses what the bible actually says and doesn't say. It's not as cut and dry as I thought, especially when I read about marriage in heaven. I wonder who's behind it, maybe some on here can figure out where it came from, or it could be an answer to prayer. It will take awhile to get through it all but very interesting! ETA: Here's the newer version of the website. http://whatthebibles...iage-in-heaven/

Tacenda,

I have watched, or rather read about, your crisis from a distance. We all have our paths to walk. For myself I gained a testimony at an early age. I have struggled with actually living the gospel, afraid of what I would miss by devoting my life to Christ. Worldly things. I came to a point where all of those worldly things were just so hollow. They don't provide happiness. The eventually fall apart and are of no worth. As does everything on this earth, except us.

True joy comes from serving in His Kingdom. Whether it is my Wife or children. Or members of The Ward.

The reason I quoted your post is because I have a question for you.

whose interpretation of The Bible is correct? Is it the people who put together the website referenced in your post? Is it the baptist preacher down the street?

Correct Interpretation can only come through The Holy Ghost. Even The Bible says as much. We don't have the orginal Bible, it doesn't exist. It is comprised of manuscripts that date from hundreds of years after Christ. How can it be correct without the wisperings of The Holy Ghost? It is translated from one language to another and in the process of doing so the interpreter has to choose which words will be used to convey the correct meaning. What it boils down to is that we get the interpreters view of what it means. I am not the smartest person in the world, but I can reason out how this process could lead to unintended deviations from what God wants to say to us through the scriptures. That is why we need to listen to the wisperings of the spirit so that what God wants us to know from the scriptures we get. Regardless of who interpreted them.

I am sorry for my writing style it comes across as preachy. I am working on that. I hope that you can come to a place where you are happy and serving in the kingdom.

What's a Peter Priesthood?