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Mike Drop

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Posts posted by Mike Drop

  1. 5 hours ago, Alexi Nakatology said:

    Hey there, thought I’d ask a good question…

    Anyone have a word or two to say about the experience of the surety of Telestial to Terrestrial to Celestial Kingdoms?

     

    Thank you 😌

    The real question is, are the kingdoms actual physical places in heaven you can walk around in, or are the kingdoms a state of mind. I’m starting to think they’re more of a state of mind and not an actual place.

  2. 1 hour ago, strappinglad said:

    yes. He had creative power and admin power.

    And that’s where everything gets a little tricky when discussing the Godhead with Christians. If Jesus is a separate God from Heavenly Father even before receiving a body, then his brother Lucifer was probably a god. Was Lucifer part of the Godhead before the war in heaven? And if you think about, the way he’s portrayed in certain LDS videos, is he part of the Godhead now? Heavenly Father has given our brother Satan a lot of power to influence us with! He seems to play a very important an essential role influencing us while here on earth.

  3. 36 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

    I suppose, if you can provide the correct definition. It is suggested that he is the " god of this world " Mind you , it seems he will be ruled by the SOP because they have a body and he doesn't. 

    I’m confused, do you believe Jesus was god (a god) before his mortal ministry here in earth? 

  4. 20 hours ago, strappinglad said:

    Apparently , having a body is not an absolute requirement for being a part of the Godhead. ( see Holy Spirit )

    You could also say (see the devil) because if Jesus was a god before his mortal life here on earth, before he had a body, that means Satan was also a god and still is possibly. No?

  5. 3 hours ago, Becky Anderson said:

    I really need help on this topic so I appreciate your help. 

    How was Jesus God in heaven if he had not yet obtained a body?

     

    He was a little g God not a Big G God before he came to earth an obtained his body. Upon his return to his father, he received his big G status. That’s exactly what happened.

  6. 1 hour ago, mbh26 said:

    It's estimated that there are 107 billion people who have ever lived on this planet thus far.  Our Heavenly Father's spirit children probably number far more than that.  If each of us were to get 5 minutes of personal time with Him, our individual turn would only come around every 1.1 million years, assuming all Heavenly Father did was have one on one meetings with his children.  So clearly one on one time with Heavenly Father would be impossible based on the physical laws of the universe that we experience here on earth.  My question is will we or have we ever had a personal relationship with Heavenly Father or is that relationship similar to say our relationship with the prophet or perhaps our relationship with the Holy Ghost?  

    Of course he can! My question is, do you not have personal time now with Heavenly Father? Everything you need to have a personal relationship with God was given to you before you were born.

  7. 17 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

    I would agree they were not lies.  A lie is when someone knows the truth of something but says something different than what they know to be true.  To be in error is not a lie.  If one believes a false view, it is not a lie even if the view is false.  It simply means to be wrong.  Being wrong is a human condition that we all are guilty of from time to time.

    Here’s the problem for me. I was born in the 70s and for almost a half century now I haven’t seen an actual prophet do any prophety stuff. We read about mighty miracles in the scriptures all the time. Joseph saw extraterrestrial beings, numerous extraterrestrials visited him up to 28 times. Not only did he restore the gospel of Christ, he restored the priesthood, the system that is going to govern this earth for 1000 years upon his return. 
     

    You said “being wrong is a human condition that we are all guilty of time to time”, you’re are correct, 100%. But I was raised to believe these men are in direct contact with God. And it hurts my heart to see my religion 20 years behind the rest of the world on almost every single major decision. I’m yearning for leadership! When will the rest of the world look at our church and say, yep!! The Mormons are on the right track?

  8. 19 minutes ago, Teancum said:

    I just would like explanations when I am booted from a thread.

    By the way!! Welcome to the club😂. I get banned all the time. I don’t know why either!!!  Because I’m like the perfect Mormon, right Scott? 🤣

  9. 16 minutes ago, Teancum said:

    I cannot. I am restricted from the thread.  So enlighten me.  I do not think anything I posted there warranted getting kicked out of the thread.

    Trust me!! It all depends on who reported your post. I read what you wrote, and you’re correct, nothing wrong with what you said. You do realize if you piss the wrong poster off you’ll be thread banned fairly quickly. Probably just like me after I post this 😂

  10. 28 minutes ago, Teancum said:

    I am honestly puzzled as to why I was booted off that thread.

    I’m not puzzled why you got kicked off. Just go read what you wrote. Then you’ll understand. 

  11. 10 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

    Science is value neutral, and that is why we need religion. Yes atheists are moral but don't typically know what a conscience is.

    Really? There’s lots of good people out there that don’t need religion and they use their conscience everyday just like we do! 
     

    10 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

    You have to go to God for that 

    No you don’t. And if you believe we do, when do you actually receive a conscience from God?  Because I believe a conscience is built in. 

  12. 1 minute ago, Paloma said:

    I see that you're different from most Mormons.  Thanks for giving lots of examples of ways you are different, as well as things you have in common with most (such as avoiding coffee, alcohol, etc.)  And I expect that what you have in common extends far beyond those Word of Wisdom observances to agreeing with distinctive LDS beliefs like Plan of Salvation, etc.

    The LDS friends I have that are "different" (now that I think about it, and therefore I know some people in real life who live out "lots of ways to be different") are ones who pick and choose how  closely they align themselves with LDS teachings. 

    I think the orthodox LDS teaching would be that full salvation is "only" found in the "one true church" and that LDS authority and observances are necessary for ultimate salvation and living in the Celestial kingdom.  I have at least one LDS friend who believes there are other paths to full salvation and living eternally with God without the need of LDS authority.  Though a member of the church and finding it a good home for himself and his family, he does not believe it's the "one true church".  I tend to think that's a rare position  -  but wonder if it's more common than I'd imagined.

    In the younger generations it’s becoming more common, definitely!

  13. 25 minutes ago, Paloma said:

    I'm interested in your saying "lots of ways to be Mormon" as I haven't really seen that view in other members of your church, though my experience is quite limited.

    I like your approach to encouraging your kids to find their own "best way" to live their lives.  You sound like a great Dad!

    It sounds like your idea of having a relationship with Christ is very "real" (like you!!).

    That it's "real", and needing to be nourished, and that it draws people to you - completely resonates with me!

    “Lots of ways to be Mormon” means just that. Let me explain. It’s human nature to find comfort in conformity, but I reject that notion entirely. Im not a conformist and don’t think Christ was either. I think he got his point across by being a nonconformist actually. He could of came to earth and dined with the rich, the elites, but he chose to grow his mortal ministry by befriending a bunch of ragamuffins. Not only did he come here to save us from our sins, he came here to get his point across. To make sure he wouldn’t be forgotten, and it worked! 

    My wife and I are blessed with all girls. And I’ve always had a problem with them going to see the bishop, alone, confessing their sins. I understand why we are commanded to repent, I just don’t agree with having a bishop involved. Like I said before, my relationship with Christ is a real relationship and I have conversations with him all the time. I don’t need a bishop. My kids don’t either! If I can talk to Christ throughout the day almost as if he’s right there beside me, what’s the bishop going to do? That just makes the whole repentance process more complicated. So our little family goes directly to Christ! We don’t need a middleman. So that’s one way we mormon different than most Mormons.

    Growing up in any religion you’ll judge people that don’t believe as you do. I find us Mormons are right up there at the top of the list when it comes to judging people. Probably because we have so many rules. To this day, I still walk into a 7/11 and a small part of me judges the people making coffee. I’ve worked on my Judge mental tendencies, but I just can’t get them 100% under control. In a restaurant a small part of me still sees the person drinking alcohol as a sinner. I cuss like a drunkin sailor but I’ll still judge someone if they cuss🤯. And growing up all my Mormon friends did. So early on my wife and I exposed  our kids to different opinions, different experiences my wife and I didn’t have as two people raised in the church from birth. It was our way to prepare our kids for the real world. We wanted our kids to understand the people they meet throughout their life are just as passionate about their religion as we are about ours. 

    So that’s a couple of the things we do that might be a little different than your average Mormon family. We have fun with it. Life’s short! 
     


     

     

  14. 23 minutes ago, Paloma said:

    Mike, you come across as really honest and raw - my very favourite kind of people!

    Which is interesting, because I know I come across as very thoughtful and composed, etc.  And that's not phony - that's who I am.  But I'm also committed to being brutally honest and completely transparent.  

    I realized how much I appreciated "raw" people when I was a high school teacher many moons ago.  In my first year of teaching, I had two classes in particular that are really memorable.  One was full of kids that were really studious and polite.  I couldn't believe my luck!  The other was a super challenging class.  The kids were a mixture of sullen, hostile, and non-hostile but extremely open with their thoughts and emotions.  Right from the beginning, I knew where I stood with those kids.  I got everything from "I hate you -  you're the worst teacher in the school!" to "You're young like us (I was 21) so can you help us with our boyfriend problems?"

    About two-thirds through the school year, I had a really bad car accident that kept me out of school for two week's recuperation.  I dreaded going back to school because I was somewhat disfigured from the accident, my ability to talk was affected,  and I could imagine how cruel the kids might be.  Just before I was due to go back, a fellow teacher brought me a home made card from this 'challenging' class that showed a comical character saying in air quotes - Duh!  You come back y'hear!!  It was signed by each of the kids in that class.

    When I did return, my 'super good' class was quietly polite.  My 'challenging' class looked at me with the most compassionate eyes imaginable.  They wanted to know, "How are you?"  "What happened?"  " We want to know all about it!"  They had endless patience with my speech difficulties.

    That's my story of how I learned to really appreciate "raw" people.  It wasn't the beginning of my liking such overtly "real and honest" people - but it cemented it for me!

    Thank you, I think😂! And yes, you’re correct, I’m very raw, I tell you exactly where I stand and what I think. I always have, even in business. Infact, that’s why most people hire me, because I tell them exactly what I think and once we have the contract signed, I get it done. No fluffy crap in between. Probably not the best personality for discussion boards though! 
     

    Honestly though, I really do love Christians and I love their passion! I could talk all day to a Christian about churchy stuff and go out to eat dinner with them no problem, no hard feelings. But if I talk doctrine or history with a Mormon, all it usually takes is one wrong word or phrase and the conversation can go sideways really quick. I see church history different than most Mormons. I don’t care about our history. Mormonisms greatest strength is found in its ability to help people find happiness and live a life more fully, without regret. Lot’s of ways to be Mormon and I think people forget that and become to rigid. I live my version of Mormonism and I help my kids live their version. In my opinion, the worst thing I could do as a father is make my kids live what I think is best. To me, that’s a great way to handicap kids right out of the gate. A true relationship with Christ is lived and built upon between the ears. If a person can learn to nurture their relationship with Christ, other people will be able physically see the relationship by just looking at you. A honest and meaningful relationship with Christ draws people to you. Nothing has to be said. 

  15. 23 minutes ago, Paloma said:

    Mike, again you asked Navidad this question directly.  Like you, I'm very interested in his answer.

    While waiting for Navidad, I'll mention what I've answered a person in real life who asked me this question.

    Someone (let's call him Steve) said to me very directly: "Tell me in one word whether I can be 'saved' without baptism."  I took Steve at his word, and said "Yes". 

    But I added "If you're willing, now let me tell you all the reasons it's absolutely important that you be baptized."  My reasons included that baptism is - a testament of one's faith in Jesus Christ; a sign of acknowledging and confessing one's sin and being symbolically cleansed through the water of baptism; a sign and seal of one's commitment to living an obedient faith-filled life; a sign of entering into God's church (also known as the "household of faith", or "body of believers', etc.); a sign of identifying with and following Jesus Himself whose own baptism by John showed its importance.

    The reason my one word answer to Steve was "Yes" (and you can see why I wanted to follow that up with explaining the importance of baptism) is my own conviction that Jesus' atonement is all-sufficient for eternal salvation (living in the presence of God).  But that doesn't mean we don't understand and commit to following His example of baptism, and to "remembering Him" through taking part in Communion.  

     

    Thank you for answering! In my experience with Christians, baptism isn’t needed to have a meaningful relationship with Christ nor is it needed to return to his presence after death. I think this is very comforting to   many of God’s children. As I understand it, salvation is the ultimate goal for Christians, and salvation is all that’s needed to live with God for eternity. Salvation is a free gift! 
     

    I hope I don’t screw this up. Most of the Christians I’ve talked to don’t think baptism is necessary for salvation. Basically, anything in addition to faith is seen as a work based faith to Christians. Am I close? This is why I think Mormonism is better off going it alone. Our ultimate goal is exaltation. Exaltation is work based. There are certain steps that have to be taken to reach exaltation, many steps. If those steps aren’t taken, we settle for salvation which takes us to a lower kingdom of glory and we don’t live with God. I’ve never understood how someone thinks our faith isn’t based on works. 
     

     

  16. 8 hours ago, Navidad said:

    Sorry for the delay in responding. I had to go to the states today and that is a four hour drive each way plus the time there. If you have a personal relationship with Christ, then I am quite confident He will usher you into the presence of His Father for eternity!

    Do I need to be baptized, or, is the relationship enough?

  17. 3 hours ago, longview said:

    You can make all kinds of rationalizations but you still are not addressing the point of my previous post.  Your comment on salvation is bizarre considering that Jesus Himself explained to Nicodemus that baptism is necessary for entrance into the kingdom of God.  The vast majority of mankind throughout history have not attained this privilege.

    Billions of people are living today that have been baptized into the body of Christ but not through priesthood authority found only in our church, at least that’s what we teach. Christians such as Baptist, Methodist, presbyterians, Catholics and many more. Christians don’t wake up wishing they could be Mormons! Far from it. As Mormons, we need to make our mind up. We can’t  preach and teach that their baptism ceremony is worthless, not accepted by God, and at the same time try to sneak into the Christian tent that has a very old and rich history. I love Christians! Probably one of the reasons I didn’t go on a mission was because I personally couldn’t knock on a Christians door and with a straight face tell them our gospel is more complete than the one they follow. Call it a character flaw, I couldn’t do it! Plus I liked girls to much!
     

    Personally, I think we should make our church and its activities so enjoyable and fulfilling, people will flock to the church. I think we should start with ditching the suits, even the Apostles, they could wear normal everyday clothes, pound some nails, sand some Sheetrock volunteer, volunteer volunteer. If being a carpenter was good enough for Jesus, our lord and savior, don’t tell me we need to be clean shaven and wearing a white shirt every Sunday. Work with our hands, get dirty. Be less corporate. Throw the teleprompters away, speak from the heart, let the spirit guide us. And last but not least, open the temple to all. Let them partake in the goodness our heavenly parents have bestowed upon their children. We could still require a temple recommend. But let’s start using the temples!! It’s like having a Lamborghini and parking it in the garage just so you can walk out there and stare at it. Let’s put some miles on that sucker!!!

  18. 27 minutes ago, longview said:

    Depends on whether you support His Purposes in making this Creation, the reasons for the Fall, and the Plan of Happiness.

    The way I understand the gospel, we believe salvation is a free gift bestowed upon all of God’s children.  That gift saves us from the grave, correct? But the only way to live with God again is to accept the restored gospel, the gospel LDS members follow. Any gospel outside of the restored gospel the LDS gospel, is incomplete, correct? So the way I grew up, I was taught Christians are no different then a Muslim, Jew or atheist. The best examples I can give are, we don’t and neither does God accept any baptism performed by any other religion. Elder Oaks explains that point in the video I provided. Out of all the Christian denominations, we believe we are the only followers of Christ that have the ability to practice and use his priesthood authority. If the two examples I provided are true, fitting in under the tent of Christianity is going to be a tuff sale. The church will slowly fade away. 
     

    Personally, I think Christians should be left alone and let them find and build a personal relationship with God. They don’t need our help! We shouldn’t be knocking on their front door trying to save their souls. It makes no sense. If we believe they’re Christians, we need to start acting like it. And knocking on the door of a fellow brother/sister in Christ and saying, hey!!, we follow the real restored gospel, not yours, the one that was corrupted over a period of 1700 years while our gospel was in heaven being protected by God. Am I wrong?

  19. 19 hours ago, Olmec Donald said:

     

     

     

     

    Mike, it sounds to me like you have a lot of grievances against various Christian individuals or groups, and also against the LDS church.   I hope you don't mind if I ask a couple of questions:

    Does treasuring your grievances offer you anything of real value?

    What would your world look like if you chose to forgive them all?  

    No no no! I love Christians and get along better with my Christian family than my Mormon family. I’m just pointing out why I have no desire to be considered a “Christian”. You do realize everything you think I complained about, us Mormons do the exact, and I mean exact same thing! Just like my uncle coming to my parents house and preaching Christianity, we go to Christian households and preach Mormonism. That’s what doesn’t make sense to me! If we’re “Christians” will someone please tell me why missionaries don’t turn around and walk away after finding out the person behind the door they just knocked on is Christian?? We preach Christianity isn’t enough to get us back to our heavenly parents. We also preach believing in Christ isn’t enough to get us back to our heavenly parents. It’s enough to get us into a lower degree of heaven, but not to our heavenly parents. To us, christianity is an end to eternal progress, no? 
     

    To me, trying to find shelter in Christianity is a huuuuge mistake! Christians are wonderful people, wonderful! But if we’re going to redefine what Mormonism is, lets do it without trying to look like just another Christian denomination. You guys see that as a negative, I see it as a positive, 100% positive! Me saying we don’t need to find shelter inside the tent of Christianity isn’t a negative, even though most of you are taking it that way, it’s a positive. The difference between me and most of the Mormons reading what I write is I don’t let fear guide my heart. I believe Mormonism can be a force for good all by itself! We don’t need Christianity, that’s not a diss to Christianity or Christians. 

  20. 28 minutes ago, Paloma said:

    Mike, for myself as a non-LDS Christian, I've experienced different self-identifiers of what it means to be LDS in relation to Christianity.  In the early 1970's, I spent time with some LDS missionaries who made it clear that they were Mormon not Christian and that Mormonism was not part of Christianity.  Subsequently I've seen much more of an emphasis on Mormonism falling within the broad picture of Christianity and claims that Latter Day Saints are definitely Christian - a claim that I've accepted at face value and also seen for myself in the professed and lived-out faith of individuals within the LDS church.  I've also been told (about twenty years ago) that I am not a 'true' Christian because I do not belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  (That was only one LDS missionary, and I've always seen that as an outlier and not a mainstream LDS view.  In fact, that missionary was taken to task by his senior companion for speaking to me that way.)

    When you say "why be Mormon when you could be a Christian in a faith that's not so strict?", I think about these verses of a Christian hymn, and I see what's expressed in these verses as part of my own 'connectedness' with my LDS friends.  As you can see in these verses, there is absolute commitment beyond the LDS church.  The question about whether we can accept and respect each other as Christians with a shared heritage remains for each individual believer.

    When I survey the wondrous cross
    On which the Prince of glory died
    My richest gain I count but loss
    And pour contempt on all my pride.
     
    Were every realm of nature mine
    My gift would still be far too small
    Love so amazing, so divine
    Demands my soul, my life, my all.

    I went through a faith crisis just over a year ago and I’ve pretty much narrowed it down to two or three reasons why. The main reason would probably be being told not to use the word Mormon anymore. I think when Pres. Nelson said that, something changed inside of me. 
     

       Most my life I’ve been criticized by Christians. When I was young I took my quad (Mormon scriptures) into a baptist church and the youth minister took my scriptures and placed them outside the door because he thought they were a tool of the devil. I’ve had uncles sit in my parents house when I was young and preach for hours that we were wolves in sheep’s  clothing. I had neighbors that volunteered for Pat  Robertson at CBN that wouldn’t let me swim in their pool because they I would infect their kids with Mormonism. One of my best friends who was Christian loved the WWE and we would wrestle all the time until his mother found out I was Mormon. I personally have no desire to be considered a Christian. I’ve payed hundreds of thousands of dollars in tithing to the church willingly and it upsets me more than you can imagine that Mormonism is shrinking. Pageants  are gone, roadshows, Boy Scouts, 1 hour of church disappear, everything I loved is gone! It’s as if the church is throwing everything overboard to survive. Me!! If I was in charge I would be doing the exact opposite. 

  21. 1 minute ago, Olmec Donald said:

    Thank you very much for clarifying, I had misunderstood you.  I thought you were trying to make the Mormon church look bad by using its own words, in particular quotes which seem to preclude the kind of brotherhood and kinship that @Paloma perceives.

     

     

    Nope!! I think the best way for the Mormon church to move forward is to embrace its “weirdness”, not try to be another Christian church. I’m a Mormon, I’m a saint, I don’t consider myself to be a Christian in the traditional sense. Half my family are Mormons and the other half are Christians (baptist, Methodist). They think we Mormons are being deceived by the devil and we’ll end up in hell after we die. I don’t want to be under the Christian tent. We’re the richest church maybe 2nd richest in the world. We don’t need to sneak our way  into the Christian tent. I think we erect our own damn tent and let the people come and find shelter under our tent. Is Mormonism weird? Yes! So what! 

  22. 2 minutes ago, Olmec Donald said:

     

    It sounds to me like you are no longer comfortable with that paradigm.  

    Have you considered becoming a seeker instead of a mike-dropper?  

    I’m not comfortable with my Mormon faith turning into just another Christian denomination. I grew up with President GBH saying MORMON meant more good! Now I’m being told not to use the word Mormon to describe my faith. I’m sorry, it doesn’t make any sense to me. In my opinion, Mormonism will slowly fade away while trying to find a home under the Christian tent. If Mormonism is just another Christian denomination, why be Mormon when you could be a Christian in a faith that’s not so strict?  

  23. 13 minutes ago, Olmec Donald said:

    "Blessed are the peacemakers".   Thank you for choosing to be one.

    "Seek and ye shall find."  I thank you for seeking common ground and kinship and mutual respect and brotherhood and shared discipleship, instead of its opposite.  Either can be found, as you have seen in this thread.  In my opinion when we choose what we seek, we pretty much simultaneously choose what we will find.  

    "Ye are the light of the world."  Christ placed no constraints on who that declaration applies to.  

    If you listen to Elder Oaks in this video,  he point blank says there’s not another church on earth that can get you back to God. Here’s what he says in the video about other Christian denominations “”repent and be baptized and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and the ordinances of the temple, and endure to the end, those who do so can be exalted in the celestial kingdom instead of being damned in a lesser status or kingdom. No one else can do this, other churches cannot do it, good Christian living cannot do it, good faith, good desires and good reasoning cannot do it.”” This is what I grew up believing. Is it wrong?

    go to the 13:30 mark

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