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Everything posted by Chum
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Church Files Lawsuit Against Cody, Wyoming (Zoning/Planning Bd)
Chum replied to smac97's topic in General Discussions
These all seem like valid concerns. I would hope that as we build temples in new areas that we could be seen as the best of neighbors. While some change is unavoidable with new construction, if a temple was being built in my neighborhood I would be concerned about all of the above as well. The housing crisis seems to have defused any auto-triggering I might have had (excepting maybe light pollution). I find I'm more accepting of many types of construction now. -
and are kinda different things. I'm not even sure they overlap.
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I think that's one factor. Another is if leadership prefers support that is more flavored by agreement or helpful challenge.
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My own experiences are fairly unanimous; they evidence that your kind criticism of @Sara H's position may be the thing that is off base. US Christianity may not have an absolute homogeneity regarding original sin but I assert there is an effective homogeneity. When Sara says... ...this absolutely and consistently aligns with what I was taught. It is what I heard from Sister Philip Michael in Catholic school and Reverend Fraley in Methodist VBS. I heard it at Jack Van Impe crusades, at Dranesville bible camp, at Fishnet and at my Baptist church. It was a particularly consistent doctrine and prior to my initiation into LDS doctrine, I hadn't heard the Christian origin story taught otherwise. To better qualify this discussion I will clarify that I am offering wholly anecdotal experiences and presenting them against what is - objectively & importantly - a well qualified position. That said, it is not your broad attestation about variety within Christian origin teaching that I am debating. I am contending that what Sara presented is especially pervasive in US Christianity. I am fairly certain that if we were to visit 100 churches of the top US Christian denominations, we would hear Sara's original sin story taught in ~all of them.
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@Navidad has the biggest brain I've ever seen. He should leave it to Science. Because leaving it to Religion would be weird.
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This thought nudges me in a potentially better direction. What responsibility do we have to our *eren who are lost in the wilderness of extremism and nationalist thinking?
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Historically, I think you're overwhelmingly right. However, I see an increase of nuanced instruction. It hints that better thinking youth will eventually replace polarized members.
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Compare how the Savior spent his Earthly time with the goals advanced in Christian-themed political agendas. There's little-to-no similarity. The Savior's teachings don't promise a lot of power over others. They seem to get forgotten in the face of goals that do.
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I really don't think the Church either seeds or nurtures the extremest mindset. In most of the rural US, the Church is at most a tiny presence and extremist nationalism abounds. Besides, Church leaders have spoken out against nationalism, knowing where it can lead. They just don't seem to be making much headway. I imagine they find that distressing.
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I don't think this is jump folks are making. I think the jump goes this way: He's showcasing his arsenal along with his intense desire to see head shots in people he doesn't like.
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In case this wasn't addressed, the General Handbook clearly prohibits carry inside the building, excepting on-duty LEO. My memory is that it qualifies the latter bit with a recognition that employment may mandate carry. The vibe I get is is that guns aren't welcome in worship places but the Church understands that a brief, temporary allowance may sometimes be needed.
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Chunks of my life were lived with some fairly dodgy conclusions in play. Certainly, some of my potential didn't merit nurturing. And yet I have had a variety of callings. Should I have had? Weighing everything before, it truly isn't clear. The rules and principles we use to evaluate people for positions, they mostly suck at their job. I think a better picture comes in retrospect. Realizing that the price of growth gets paid by everyone around: On balance, I think I was a good investment. What I learned made me a better member of pretty much everything. Past that and independently... I think that having people (consistently) in rotating positions of responsibility/leadership is not only valuable; I resolutely believe it is critical to society. I think young people absolutely need these experiences. I think that not-young people had better have them. I strongly suspect some societal challenges we're facing can be better addressed, if this was everyone's typical norm. When I ask myself should Deznat guy have had a calling of responsibility, the above is what I factor into the equation. The NO bar is super high. Even assuming the worst for him, I'm not inclined to say he shouldn't have had a calling.
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Over and over again I keep coming to the conclusion that the Church handles complex issues in the wisest way possible. That is: Where I've been able to consider something all the way thru* - after I factor in all the realities, I can't really improve on how the Church handled it. Where the Church falls short, it often does so because going past that point won't bring the good that appears to be there. This is important because this is where other orgs go off the rails, particularly religious orgs. I'll clarify that I'm not diminishing the past but I am talking about the Church of this moment. Nor do I think the Church is mistake-free today. And I desperately, passionately wish the Church would seize more opportunities to do temporal good. But from a secular standpoint, I can't come up with of another org of this size+scope that is as competent. * which isn't overly many things
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Analytically, this whole event works for me. It raises questions and highlights issues in a useful way. One neighbor notes the violence of this LEO event has disrupted their family's sense of safety. Family and sympathetic neighbors portray Deznat guy as frustrated and harmless. His online game was amplifying bad intent right up to the edges of the sandbox. Assuming he ultimately got what he wanted, what was that? His platform put him on FBI's radar. Diggy news orgs introduce details of his Church life into his public portfolio. ...which raised a Q from me "Accepting the negative picture, it seems inappropriate for him to have a calling. Was that a bad call?" (complex answer = no)
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I came nosing around here to see how this Darwin nominee would play out.
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Ugh. I don't know what natural process is supposed to discourage this but I suspect it needs a kick.
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I could never upvote this enough. Stuff that isn't easily explained is interesting. It begs in-depth conversation and has all the potential to lift a lesson.
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I’ve been vindicated, church caught with hands in cookie jar
Chum replied to Craig Speechly's topic in General Discussions
I imagine the closest anyone gets to honoring the spirit of tax law is to not, as best as they possibly can. -
I’ve been vindicated, church caught with hands in cookie jar
Chum replied to Craig Speechly's topic in General Discussions
I don't know anyone who wants every government service they pay for. Maybe there's an angle in that. -
How does God's omniscience negate an individual's agency / free will?
Chum replied to smac97's topic in General Discussions
I'm not sure I can agree with this. These are such different things. Reason is the bridge between what is known and what is about to be known. Experience is a vehicle but reason is the road. Belief is a map of where reason and experience have taken us. We consult it to better understand where and how we've traveled. -
How does God's omniscience negate an individual's agency / free will?
Chum replied to smac97's topic in General Discussions
I appreciate that. Maybe I should clarify that I'm somewhat baffled and not particularly upset. Ultimately, God is God; He doesn't owe me. If I don't grok what He's doing then I don't. In this context (therefore somewhat non-optimally), my personal feelings for the Church are overwhelmingly positive - a state it earns from me. Better than despair, yes but still frustrating. My best perspective might be: better this on me than my loved ones. Untouchable suffering is hard. No, not when we misuse it. There are *a few* things I wish my younger self knew. -
How does God's omniscience negate an individual's agency / free will?
Chum replied to smac97's topic in General Discussions
My mortal life. I have my hands full with that, this millennium. -
How does God's omniscience negate an individual's agency / free will?
Chum replied to smac97's topic in General Discussions
I trust He's a lot smarter than I am, that His goals are benevolent and it is wisdom for me to follow what we're taught. But his plan for me personally? I can't take any set of experiences and suss out a plan. Long term, reinforcement consistently seems to be counter what is should be. Over decades, the more observant I am the worse life gets. As I gave up of churchy things, corresponding life things finally turn around. -
How does God's omniscience negate an individual's agency / free will?
Chum replied to smac97's topic in General Discussions
I think our Faith plants an assumption. It's that God eventually shares enough of his plan (for each of us) to earn our trust in that plan. For all other Saints, I will accept that is true. For me personally, I am long past needing that info and no longer expect I'll get it in this life. It could still arrive one day I just don't know what I'd do with it. -
How does God's omniscience negate an individual's agency / free will?
Chum replied to smac97's topic in General Discussions
I really like this observation, that moralism is a tool to be wielded with wisdom. It helps me remember that we were always the goal.