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Everything posted by OGHoosier

  1. The Nephites and Lamanites experienced "a great division among the people" in 231, almost a hundred years before your date, per 4 Nephi 1:35. In 322 a war began which the Nephites won. A series of wars followed which the Lamanites won, and the land was divided between the Nephites and Lamanites in 350. At AD 385 the Nephites were extinguished. In contrast, in AD 330, Constantine moved the capital to Constantinople in the East. The Empire was not divided until 395, ten years after the destruction of the Nephites, upon the death of Emperor Theodosius I. The Western and Eastern Roman Empire
  2. Here are the relevant points: Brown argues that the KEP could well be an example of glossalalia on the part of Joseph Smith and his associates, just written down. Joseph taught that to speak in an unknown tongue was fine so long as somebody had the gift of interpretation of tongues and could therefore explain the meaning. I find this to be a very interesting way of viewing the KEP and related excerpts such as the Appeal: glossalalic revelation of the primeval language crystallized, captured in a moment in time on fading paper. Where in there am I saying that Joseph Smit
  3. The rhetoric of "see where it logically takes them" is so misplaced when it comes to archaeology. A pottery fragment does not self-identify or self-authenticate and its provenance is not self-evident. What we claim to know about it is in essence what we assume about it based on prior information. Archaeology can only built on prior assumptions about an area and correspondence with texts, which we don't have for sure from Mesoamerica but might in the Book of Mormon. When dealing with a text of unknown origin it is prudent to examine one's expectations and then see if the evidence compares profi
  4. Speaking of Ritner and Rhodes, is this the first time Rhodes has been accused of plagiarizing Ritner, or has that popped up before?
  5. Again, this covereth a multitude of sins. Based on this, if Gadianton had been named Gadionah, Gadoran, Gadidonah, Gadinihah, Gadorum, or with any other name ending common to the Book of Mormon, it wouldn't make a difference. You're eliding the whole back half of the name in order to make your point.
  6. Sam Brown has notes on each of them in the footnotes of The Translator and the Ghostwriter. Most of them are kind of unorthodox when it comes to spelling but they work.
  7. Well, you've always got people like Ed Goble, who disagree with the so-called "apologetic positions" on some things but are not critics of the Church per se. Edit: Actually, my original statement was a misrepresentation of Ed Goble. He defends the Church, but he disagrees with the theories of lots of apologists and advances his own. His opinion of many apologists is not high.
  8. No, honestly. You approach these sorts of questions in a different way from me, I think, but I wouldn't categorize you as an inveterate critic. But you've got to admit that "Who do we believe? Joseph Smith or the Apologists?" is something of a challenge which, like I said, keeps me on my toes.
  9. So the narrow passage is the spit of land between the Pacific and Lake Nicaragua? And the "narrow neck" is a passage in Panama per your other thread? I would be interested in a more comprehensive explanation of your geographical proposal.
  10. Maybe, but given Hauglid's recent actions I don't think he'd exactly be sheepish about putting his name on that opinion. No point in being anonymous now.
  11. These are fair questions for a theoretical exercise, I suppose.
  12. After encountering this question yesterday I spent a few hours in research and, I must say, it was a gift. I learned a lot. I appreciate this question for the same reason that Hugh Nibley appreciated the critics of his day: “they keep us on our toes.” I’m going to draw a lot from three insightful papers by Samuel Morris Brown, which I encourage everyone to peruse: The Language of Heaven: Prolegomenon to the Study of Smithian Translation (to be referenced as LoH) Joseph (Smith) in Egypt: Babel, Hieroglyphs, and the Pure Language of Eden (to be referenced as JSE) The Transla
  13. Mayan or Izapan or some other regional culture group, yes. I'd think so. Which raises the intriguing possibility that the small plates record of Nephi had a few more links in the chain of transmission than we have previously thought.
  14. It's unlikely. "The Hebrew hath been changed by us also" leads me to think that the Reformed Egyptian also evolved, though it retained enough continuity for Mormon to understand what was on the small plates. The point is that it would be unlikely for us to find extant Reformed Egyptian, since it seems to primarily have been a priestly language and, in all likelihood, was only a dominant script during the early period of Nephite residence in the New World, when they were still very Judaic in their worship. Like I said, I don't think Hebrew temples have much writing on them, if the biblical desc
  15. There's also little reason to believe that Reformed Egyptian would really have persisted as a public language. Benjamin makes a point of ensuring that his sons know it, which indicates that it had passed from normal circulation by his day. That's probably also connected to the fact that Benjamin was the first to receive the plates from the Jacobean line of record-keepers. From then on, the record passes in the line of Alma from keeper to keeper, with each one being specifically trained for the purpose. When the plates leave the Almaic line, they go to Mormon, who was already becoming "learned
  16. Hence "Even though the hieroglyphics have been translated to say "Anubis" (though in page 61, he points out that there are some possible problems with that translation), the hieroglyphics don't always relate to the character next to it."
  17. I know. Tiemeyer challenges the geography but not the chronology of Deutero-Isaiah. I still think her data might be good to know.
  18. On the contrary, historical matters such as the Book of Abraham are subject to a great deal more ambiguity than observable things like the curvature of the earth or the absence of Santa Claus on Christmas Eve night.
  19. How did they know that? Was a record kept of it or is it deduction based on the woodcut? Thanks for the link to what amounts to a suggestive and thoroughly irreverent graphic novel. In all seriousness, I looked through his arguments and I have some reservations about both arguments and conclusions. Permit me to raise my objections. Quotes will be from Mr. Osborne's page. Is Mr. Osborne such a craftsman? If not, why hasn't he produced one who testifies to that effect? In any case, we see the same sorts of bevels, scrapes, and marks all throughout the low-relief area of t
  20. I'll be honest, I'm still putting in my due diligence on Deutero-Isaiah and Trito-Isaiah. I wouldn't call myself knowledgeable enough to weigh in yet with anything substantial. I will say this, though: Bokovoy and Townsend speak from within a scholarly community of which they are representative. The Deutero- and Trito-Isaiah model is the beneficiary of a broad consensus among historical-critical scholars of the Bible, and Bokovoy and Townsend elevate that consensus, in their discourse which I have seen, to established fact. There are diverging opinions however, which I do believe deserve consi
  21. What's not true? That he served in these positions? That Ritner was removed from the doctoral committee? Or that you slavishly accept everything Ritner says as falling from the mouth of God?
  22. John Gee is not only well-regarded in Mormon circles. This opinion you hold is simply wrong. Let's look at his accomplishments, shall we? From his bio on FairMormon: He has since served as the editor of the Journal of the Society for the Study of Egyptian Antiquities. He has also participated in the International Association for Coptic Studies,] the Society of Biblical Literature, the American Research Center in Egypt, and BYU's David M. Kennedy Center for International Studies. You could find this out with a simple Google Search, man. The only reason people think Gee i
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