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Everything posted by OGHoosier

  1. So, then, we know that Joseph Smith was aware of and involved with the production of the Alphabets, but his "creative input" (so to speak) and general responsibility for the project is undefined?
  2. How much was in Smith's handwriting? A scattered word here and there? A signature? Or was he doing full entries and/or paragraph-length text?
  3. I hear that and I think it is a valid approach. My thought is that the content of the Book of Abraham was given as a temple primer, preparing and instructing Joseph and the Saints in things they would need for temple purposes. The contents of the papyri served effectively the same purpose as temple ordinances for Egyptians, ie liturgical access to the presence of Deity. That and Pyle's notes about Facsimile 1 make me think that the story of the papyri as presently told is too simple. However, I do think you are right, his revelations can be legitimate even if it was the goshdarn wallpaper in t
  4. @Robert F. Smith has it pretty much in the right. My thinking is that we don't know enough to authoritatively declare a relationship between glyphs and texts. Did the English text make it to paper first, or the glyphs? Was it a glossalalia as Manu Padro suggests, a fraud, a cipher-key, or some other production? In my experience the field of possibilities is artificially narrowed by commentators in the name of almighty "parsimony", when the circumstances at hand do not justify such absolute conclusions.
  5. I don't believe in a missing scroll containing the Book of Abraham. Andrew Cook and Christopher Smith reported that, per their calculations, the Scroll of Hor is missing ~2 feet on the interior end. Here's the famous Dialogue article, the very same that serves as the gravestone for Gee's theory in the minds of many: https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V43N04_413.pdf On page 36: I think it's possible that the Book of Abraham is an expansion of non-extant material from that section or mnemonic material through the scroll. I don't believe that th
  6. Oh, certainly. Jettisoning the Book of Abraham is not a live option for me, nor does it appear to be so for the Church. I still think it's ultimately related to the papyri; the rise of Gee's missing-papyrus theory prompted John Tvedtenes to abandon a investigation into the possibility of papyri-as-mnemonic-device which could have been fruitful and ought to be revisited. The BoA could also be an expansion of the anomalous Facsimile 1 or non-extant elements on the ~2 feet of missing scroll. Furthermore, since both the BoA and Book of Breathings serve as soteriological instruction manuals, a subs
  7. I could do "Deep Weirdness with OGHoosier", but I'm not fond of podcasts or Youtube videos as informative media, so I'll have to refrain from making one myself I didn't mean "deep weirdness" in a derogatory sense, far from it. The papyri don't give a straightforward Book of Abraham text, obviously, but the vignette that became Facsimile 1 also appears to defy conventional expectations coming from the other direction. It's anomalous and that beckons to me.
  8. I dunno. I find it compelling. That said, I also think there's more to the papyri that we have than meets the eye. I'm not sure about Pyle's length conclusions - he disagrees with both Gee and Cook/Smith and doesn't provide his methodology here. I've asked about that, we'll see what he says. But I think his notes about Facsimile 1 are interesting and betray some deeper weirdness that conventional explanations of the vignette don't include.
  9. My take is somewhat rough and unschooled, but we know that the Prophet and President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the Presiding High Priest of the Melchizedek Priesthood on Earth, and thus presides over it's extension, the Aaronic Priesthood. These are the priesthoods through which covenants with God are made, covenants which determine our standing with and obligations towards God and His kingdom on the Earth. All covenants made in the Church are made on the basis of delegated authority from God, which passes through the Presiding High Priest. It seems to me that
  10. I'd say the hearts of the children of men are definitely waxing cold.
  11. Indeed, such a day is likely near at hand. I'll be interested to see what affect that has on BYU's size and/or prestige. Small Christian/Western traditionalist schools such as Saint Andrew's and Hillsdale College already reject government funding, but they are very small operations. More prominent religiously-affiliated schools, like BYU, Boston College, Catholic University of America, and Liberty University, still by and large take federal aid, and it's hard to imagine any of them retaining their stature without it.
  12. I've had the same experience. It shook me pretty much to the core, but the advice worked. I very much look forward to hearing the voice of God - the leitmotif of Creation.
  13. I admit I can't observe the world on a basic level without sense experiences. I can't observe the world save through my human consciousness. I agree that we must trust our own consciousness, as such trust is necessary as a prerequisite for any form of inquiry or observation. The thing is, I feel like there is a reality beyond my own consciousness which grounds it, which my consciousness observes and latches onto. For example, I don't dream much, but when I do there's usually things in it that are wrong, that are strange. I wake up and realize that what I dreamed didn't make sense, wasn't
  14. In which case that belief would be false and those benefits nothing more than happy accidents. No eternal life would or could come of it. I see how Pragmatism might justify that, since its a useful belief, but I'm still attached to the theory that truth does correspond to the external world.
  15. @Benjamin Seeker has it right. Jesus Christ needed to be literally resurrected. You are right, we must have faith in historicity. I suppose we don't need historical proof of it to have faith, obviously. But there needs to be room for it to be historical or else it doesn't work. What I'm more interested in right now, though, is how Pragmatism justifies spiritual testimony.
  16. Sure, I'll bite. This is interesting to me and I'm eager to be taught. I have dropped a rock down the shaft of Pragmatism and I haven't heard it hit bottom yet, so why not? How does Pragmatism (with Alma 42, which I just read and I kind of see the connection but not really) justify testimony as evidence? I do believe in testimony as evidence already, but I would like to see it from this angle. I'll confess to not understanding the functional theology of the Atonement very well, but the centrality of Christ's sacrifice seems to preclude a "fictional crucifixion and Resurrection" if it is
  17. A stirring round of applause for your deep, profound, insightful, and completely original commentary
  18. This is a recurring difficulty throughout any holistic study of the scriptures. The same mechanism is in play with the so-called "dark sayings of Jesus", those times when the Savior calls for impossible standards of perfection, asks us to be willing to leave father and mothers and brothers and sisters, and declares that He came not to bring peace but a sword. I can only conclude that such statements as Alma's refer to a yet future, perfected condition, which the Savior bids us attain progressively, with His help. After all, all of these must eventually be met in order for us to partake o
  19. Funny. That's exactly what Benjamin Franklin thought. He said the East India Company should be recompensed for the tea by the state. George Washington wrote that the Bostonians had gone crazy. Some Tories they were, huh? I'm gonna push back further on the whole Boston Tea Party analogy. There is only a general parallel here, not strong enough to justify the violence that we see. The Boston Tea Party was organized and focused to a point. The perpetrators, a group called the Sons of Liberty, organized themselves in order to effect a strike on the East India Tea Company, the state-level
  20. @The Nehor, that was beautiful. Seeing as I am one such fan, you have shown me myself.
  21. I second this. I would love to learn more about that. In general, @Kevin Christensen, that was a wonderful response. I have struggled with the universality of the "somehow" by which Joseph concocted all these things. It's an effortless handwave that that permits faith in that position but which does not actually explain anything. It's boundary maintenance and nothing more. Regarding Kuhn: "Particularly persuasive arguments can be developed if the new paradigm permits the prediction of phenomena that had been entirely unsuspected while the old one prevailed." I find that Moron
  22. Interesting point! That actually makes some sense. The Nephite wickedness is introduced in Jacob 1:15 as occurring under the reign of the second king, which could be a coincidence or simple time-stamp but could also signal a connection between that king and and the outbreak of the Nephite iniquity. It helps that Jacob 2 correlates with Deuteronomy 17:17, one of the commandments for kings in the Mosaic code, and half of Jacob's sermon focuses on the wanton acquisition of wealth and pride. Jacob might be speaking to King Nephi II here.
  23. @stemelbow, so be it. I thank you for the challenge, it has actually helped me dig into and understand the text more. I offer Jacob 1:15: Wanton fornication and adultery are not highlighted as the example of "wicked practices", desiring many wives and concubines is. It can't be much clearer.
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