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Bill “Papa” Lee

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Posts posted by Bill “Papa” Lee

  1. 1 hour ago, katherine the great said:

    Hang in there Papa! 💜

    I will, I must, I have just never felt so cut off before. It is a burden that is difficult to bare, as I cannot yet go to the Temple to find some solace, for it is not open and operational yet. Not to mention, as with most all Temple’s, are usually staffed full time with the weakest among us, not “Spiritually weak”, but with the much older members among us all. 😪 

  2. 57 minutes ago, california boy said:

    So you think the Church policies have nothing to do with keeping people, especially the elderly safe???


    Instead you want to attack me for pointing this out?  No surprise there.

    I had, nor have no issue with keeping elderly safe, just noting half measures, of allowing 50-60% not to wear masks. This despite the clear leadership for our “Ward Leadership”. 

  3. 4 hours ago, california boy said:

    You seriously have no idea why members of your ward are trying to protect others in your ward from catching Covid?  You seriously have no idea why your ward members are being especially vigilant in protecting the seniors in your ward?  No idea at all????

    Even in a. Re-read, I don’t know how I gave that impression? It is all for our protection, so why is 50-60% not wearing masks at all? 

    • Upvote 1
  4. Our Ward here in my home State of Georgia, has returned to worship together; well not really. 

    Many of us are in the same building, where up to 150 can attend, however it is so “hands off”, approach that many have many discouraged. All members of leadership wear masks unless they are speaking, as do all of the Aaronic Priesthood, who administer the Sacrament. In addition, each of the, Deacons, Teachers and Priest, also wear gloves the entire time. Yet with all of these individuals setting examples, by employing such safety measures, members are not required to wear masks. Social distancing keeps almost anyone of speaking with one another, in addition those in my age bracket and above, are not only given “wide births”, but reminded, “we don’t have to be there”. As a result, after the first week, and the very large part of the members who don’t wear masks, have caused friends of mine, to not return. 

    I ask these questions here in the General Discussion Forum, in order to gage our actions here, with other parts of the world, or country? 

    I must admit, after our very long absence, I feel very “disconnected”, to my Ward and Church. It is very much an odd feeling, and is leaving me quite sad, and lacking the Spirit, that I once had or felt. 😪

  5. On 10/21/2020 at 3:13 PM, Jared Livesey said:

    Truth is eternal, and it is not based on what “we think it is”, or “understand it to be”. We were given the perfect example of Jesus Christ, as the the goal of what we should “strive to be”, and what we are “promised we can become”, only through his “Grace, and Sacrifice”. A goal that can only be obtained through our own “grace extended to others, and the sacrifice that such grace demands”, always keeping focus upon “Him”. It is true that our “understanding”, is required, but just as scripture teaches, we must learn as Jesus Christ learned, “line upon line”, and “precept upon precept”, thus growing in “favor among  God and man”. We learn (or understand)  just as Jesus Christ did, “through the things that (He) we suffer”, for this is how Jesus became, “the author of our salvation”, and how we secure our salvation. Yet no matter our struggles, and works of righteousness, we will still be, “unprofitable servants”, which is why we need, and how the “Grace of God” saves us all. Thus as the Apostles have taught us, “we are saved by grace, least any man boast”. 

    So when our Evangelical Christians friends say, “we are saved by Grace”, we should be quick to agree. Least in our effort to teach years of our understanding of the need for righteous living, we don’t send them away unwilling to listen to us proclaim our Christianity, and dismiss anything else we may have to say. I understand the teachings of the scriptures, and I know I will be an “unprofitable servant”, and that I am “saved by Grace alone”, and know why I need Jesus Christ, and to strive to be “perfect, even as my Father in Heaven is perfect”. Because I know that I can only be found perfect, in and through the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in no other way. 

  6. 19 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

    I'm glad that you've been able to help your family, Bro. Lee.  Best to you and yours.

    It is a very uneven trade, they give us “JOY”, and all we have to do is help them financially. So my wife and I, are getting the better part of the deal. We are only able to do this, by following the counsel of Church Leadership, and because we have followed the “Law of the Tithe”. We do soooooooooo little, and for that we get unconditional love, and grandchildren to boot, they might believe they get a lot, but what they give us, is 100 fold. 

    • Upvote 1
  7. 4 hours ago, Amulek said:

    That's wonderful to hear!

    My parents have just recently been able to return to church as well, and they shared similar feelings.


    It is, and was, a truly wonderful experience, even for an introvert such as myself. Also, even though I could only wave at many of my friends, I could see the joy in their eyes. a joy that I recognized, as I could see it in my own my own eyes while dressing for Church, for having been gone for so long. Early in this year, I was very, very ill, so this Sunday was only my third Sacrament meeting, during all of 2020. As a result, my joy was overflowing, or more correctly stated, “my cup overflowed”, such joy was moved to tears, as was I. 

    It was just a joyful day all around, as Sunday Dinner, with all of my 19 family who attended, only one was absent, but he was was prayed fo in earnest, and missed by all. 

  8. Yes, after many months of exile into a strange land, the seas parted, and we walked through on dry land. Well maybe not that dramatic, but it was so nice to gather with the Saints again. I missed my friends so much! There was some debate with my wife, as she feared I could get sick, but I convinced her, and my loving children, that I NEEDED worship in person; again! 

    It was a good day, a very good day.

    • Like 3
  9. In Malachi 3: 10-11, reads...

    “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he will not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.” (I hope I quoted this correctly, as I often make errors)

    In a couple of recent threads, smilingly out of nowhere, there were comments, that were very different than the thread title. A few that were not even addressing the comments of other poster’s. These comments were directed solely, or in part, at “Church Finances”, and were completely out of context. One was a generalized assessment of our (The Church’s) day to day output, although expressed via conjecture, since few really know the numbers, of both time and money spent, and distributed by Latter-day Saint Charities. The other post, seemed (or was) a very abrupt, and angry post, meant as a judgement,  concerning, both “our day to day finances”, and what the poster viewed as our, “vast, and unnecessary  wealth”. One that suggested that maybe the Church must feel, (or suppose) that the “The Church”, believes that maybe they could “somehow purchase their collective salvation”, (too paraphrase). Even though such comments appear here are rare, but even though rare, the angry comments, still “sing and wound deeply”. They always appear in, or on, both anti-Mormon websites, and most certainly following newspaper articles, in the comments section. When expressed here, still very angry comment, still hurts. This because we cannot answer questions about finances, and arguments are usually a harsh oversimplification. 

    My remaining comments will be single sentences, or short paragraphs, this way each poster can easily do edits, addressing only the line items that they wish to address. 

    During the Saturday afternoon session of General Conference, at approximately “ 11:00AM EST) “Elder W Christopher Waddell, 1st  Counselor in the Presiding Bishopric,  (probably his last sermon) .was placed on “Emeritus Status.  Knowing this would probably be his last General Conference address, I listened more closely. Throughout Secular and Scriptural history, most who believe, it is their last, before a large audience, pick the best if topics, and that which they view as the most important of all things. So Elder Waddell chose to speak, of being prepared. In his talk, he spoke of a meeting, where President Nelson (probably the entire First Counselor, along with the First Bishopric, they expressed concern, (the best would I can use) about the “Church Finances”,  and our ability to provided in these most difficult times. A time while there will be a much great demand, where ever fewer pay their tithes at all. The happy ending of this exchange can be defined in one simple phrase. “There is meat in mine Storehouse”. The reason for this answer, is because our Church, teaches what it preaches”. It is a wonderful story for the many who (as of late) are angry that this once “dirt poor”, Church and People”, are now able to provide for the “poorest” among us. Even th angry, we will feed! We are just silly like this, and we are able to do this, because of, “The Law f the Tithe”, also just because we are happy to give. 

    How is wealth accumulated? We are property owners, due to our teaching and our commandments. If I am not correct, every Church, and every Temple, is paid the day it is built. This way we do not carry a large debt. When the work is done, and properly finished, we give our contractors their money, “in full”. So much of our wealth, is counted in real estate. We also owned lots of commercial products, used for canning facilities, also for Bishop’s Storehouses. Parts of such buildings, have offices for professional “Marriages Counselors”. There have been 1,000’s+Stake Centers, with pavilions have been built, so members can plat, and have activities. Believe it r not, a simple search will allow members to see the homes of Latter-day Saints Leadership. As a result, unless any leader acquired wealth, or nice homes prior to their callings, it is very easy to see that the money we pay in tithes, does not, or is not used to make others rich. So angry outbursts, from other members is difficult to understand. 

    Having grown up in a small “one room Church”, where offerings each Sunday, while counted on the Altar, being the norm. It is comforting to know that our Church is able to pay for, and assist the life of any members in need. In fact, the entire time I attended Church, in that one room, if we had to go to the bathroom, it was an “outhouse”, and no running water. Early in my Military career, around early 1977, they finally got bathroom on the back of the building. We still had to go outside. As it relates to this thread, wealth is measured differently. I have debated many here and elsewhere, they are very angry at our Temples. I once asked a friend, who was very inactive, but he was also wealthy. He told me, “I will never give a dime to a Church, who spends so much money of their Temples, while there are starving people in the world”. His parents had gone inactive, so when I ask why in he know “ why Temples we built betters”? He did not much of anything, he had however worked as lead Electrical Engineer for building the Atlanta Temple, before his parents died and left him the money. So, his answer was, “any religion who would baptize someone after they we dead, is just crazy”! I tried to explain, but he told me, “I designed the lighting for the very room, for the baptismal font, for the dead is located”. 

    This is not even the end, the Church is planning, and always has for the real tribulations to come. This test right now, is just a trail run. much more difficulty is yet to come. As a result, the Church will continue to prepare, and continue to add to their wealth, as the live the law of the Gospel. Some will of course become bitter, while others will rejoice when they benefit from the preparation and diligence of our leadership. 

    During the 2020 year, I have been called up, and was able to assist all of my children. Last year and before, I have found out, and overheard my children, “mummer” among themselves, that “we” (there parents) have had more money than we have admitted. Even, as a result of their ‘mummering”, my wife has suggested that we help them, more of course that we already have. However, my wife and I, have felt the requests we too much, or the time not at hand where we should, or could help them with their needs. However this truly strange year of 2020, things have become extremely desperate. As a result, our many years of holding back, and not rushing it, each time we were called, has allowed us to step in. Thankfully, and happily we have been able to helped NOT with that which was, simply “desired”. but we were able to provide that which was truly “needed”. 

    This post is so much longer than most, so place forgive any and all errors. Also, for any who can add to this, thank you in advance. 

    Bill “Papa” Lee




    • Upvote 3
  10. 5 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

    Your existence is NOT evidence of God.

    “All things denote that there is a God”. I would beg to differ with your dismissal of all creation as evidence, and follow up with countless bullet points and reasons, but it would not matter. Simply put, I gave the greatest example to support that belief, but you rejected it. So it would be foolhardy to try and persuade you, or anyone else who could, or would, stare into the sun and deny that it shines, as it destroys your very ability to see it. 

  11. 11 hours ago, Jared Livesey said:

    We learn from Benjamin that:

    1. the rich are those who have more substance than required to meet their immediate needs,
    2. the poor are those who have only the substance required to meet their immediate needs,
    3. the beggars are those who lack the substance required to meet their immediate needs and petition us for it, and
    4. one covets a thing if one would not freely give it upon request.


    There is no middle-class in this schema: there are only the rich (those who have more than they immediately need), the poor (those who have only what they immediately need), and the needy (those who have less than they immediately need).


    Using these definitions, we ask a few preliminary questions.

    1. If you have a 3-month supply of money, are you poor?
    2. If you have a year's supply of food, are you poor?
    3. If you have a retirement fund, are you poor?


    Bonus: Are Benjamin's instructions binding upon us?  If so, how so?  If not, why not?

    Based upon the narrow definitions given here, I would suspect that anyone with a home, Internet, and the time to invest, would qualify as “rich”. I would, via my family alone. 

  12. 32 minutes ago, gav said:

    Is there any, and if so what in your minds would qualify?

    It is often claimed that there is no empirical evidence for God. I personally refute that claim but would love to hear others opinions.

    I am evidence, irrefutable evidence of his (their) existence, the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. 

  13. On 9/29/2020 at 1:35 PM, smac97 said:

    I think it might.  What was predominantly uncontroversial and beyond dispute in 1995 is hugely controversial and heavily disputed in 2020.

    Many of the points made in The Proclamation seemed, at the time, axiomatic.  And yet here were are, 25 years later, having big debates about them, with all sorts of real-world ramifications arising from them.  

    Hindsight being 20/20, the Proclamation now seems prescient.  It anticipated and addressed fundamental issues about family, gender, etc. that would end up becoming much more prominent in the future.  Whether that amounts to the Brethren being "prophetic" is, in the end, a question of faith.

    Yes, it does not "necessarily lead" to that conclusion.  

    But having The Proclamation as a benchmark has, for me, helped clarify fundamental issues that are, in the end, left to each individual to address.

    I have a lot of compassion and sympathy for people who have gender dysphoria.



    Indeed it was “Prophetic”, as it addressed much more than just marriage, for now, it is also addressing issues that are part of both the mainstream debate, and fringe arguments concerning “gender”, and the “Eternal Role”, it plays in “life“, and “life everlasting”. I think making clear and answering the questions, when all are raised in the “Eternities”, they will be raised into the gender to which they were born, eternally. This document is “Prophetic”, and is “Doctrine”, and should be made a part of our “Canon of Scriptures”. My 2 cents anyway.    

    • Like 1
  14. 3 hours ago, Calm said:

    You know me well. It sounds like you need to talk about it though, so risk probably is outweighed by need. Maybe if someone resonates with you, you can take it private and then ask that this gets deleted.

    I know the first several months on Covid we were having strong conflicts between myself and my husband with the same argument over and over again.  He saw myself and my daughter as overreacting while we saw him as ignoring our concerns about our high risk...seriously if things get much worse for me, it will be downhill the rest of my 30 years of life as it is harder and harder to just maintain and close to impossible to improve significantly enough that a minor setback doesn’t wipeout months of effort.  And I don’t see that downhill as offering enough value to continue the struggle. And I told him that several times as well as my daughter who faces 60 years of additional hardship if Covid creates chronic issues for her and we still had the argument whether he was going to a family get together  or just to visit friends just because he was bored.  I was hiding in my room to avoid any contact with him and resenting him for destroying the refuge that home is supposed to be.  He of course saw it differently.  He felt we unfairly didn’t trust him and were treating him like a child.

    Thankfully we have manage to achieve a balance of sorts, though some conversations need to be avoided. It taught me how love does not conquer all and how fragile relationships are at heart even after decades of what anyone would consider a loving and supportive relationship, though not perfect. 

    Men are just wired differently, I am sure he tries to understand, just as I do for my wife and children. I have had soooooooo many close calls in the Military, so many emergency landings, flying daily. Then I had 23 years in law-enforcement, so many close calls then, that I just never expected to be here, to be retired. I have also survived so many health scares already, and as a result I just don’t see this as she and my children, and even grandchildren do. They worry over me so much, it is just unbearable at times. It is not that I don’t want to share her views on the matter, I have survived so much, I just feel “bulletproof” (pardon the law-enforcement pun). As a result after 45 years together, I feel God has already blessed me with so much, I thought due to my service, I would have never have seen otherwise. So, if I may, let me at least identify with your husband, since I am unable to apologize for “every man’s behavior”, as it relates to COVID-19, and this truly odd year in total. A lot of marriages are really experiencing serious “stress or strengthening”, depending on many underlying issues. 

  15. Having a daughter who is also Gay, and married, I don’t think she would be better off dead. However, as parents we often must mourn the loss of what “we think our children should be”, and “accept them for whom they are”, and this is not easy. I think your wife will have to go through this at her pace, and at no other’s pace. Love will win out; and “Always prevail”. Just give it time, and you will all be in my prayers. 

    • Upvote 1
  16. Got word that as soon as our Bishop returns from Utah, that we will (as our other Ward, in our building has) begin meeting again. I was so excited, and was telling my grandchildren who are in YM and YW’s, how happy I was for them. When I saw the look on my oldest daughter’s face. I asked what was wrong? Sadly there will be no other meetings than Sacrament, and it will be short, and from what she has heard, and what has happened elsewhere, and as I expected; No one over 60 will be welcome, apparently we will get televised Sacrament Prayers, so we can partake of the Sacrament. 

    Early in the year I was very, very, sick...so unfortunately, I have been to a Church building only twice since last Christmas. I do sooooo the fellowship with the Saints, and I am curios at to, “how long”, it will be before I feel the joy and strength, that comes with the fellowship, of meeting with my fellow Saints.. There are many places I can go to Church, including the Church I grew up in, but not my own. Of course, I also can’t go to the Temple, none are open except out West, and I n other countries. 

    Forgive me, I have been through so much, so I am feeling really BLUE. 

  17. 14 hours ago, Garden Girl said:

    I don't know....


    Although not college, I ask because my grandchildren started back to school, only for it to stop within a couple of weeks. Now they attend school two days a week only. Even the two days a week is now in jeopardy, for a number of reasons. I am wondering if the same thing might happen with sports, start up and then shut down after only a game or two. We are living in a very odd year, something I fear (I say “I fear” as a turn of phrase, as I do not) that this year, may continue on into the next. If school is in constant fear of closing down due to “social distancing”, and the spread of COVID-19, sports (well most) have no ability to conform to “social distancing”. I wonder for the sake of the “student athlete”, those who depend on their scholarships, and what might happen with, start up’s and then sudden closures? This is a truly perplexing year, which I thing will soon come to be known as “The Lost Year”. 

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