MustardSeed

My opinion on this is just mine. But if the church is having a hard time retaining folks, that’s the church’s fault. It’s my opinion that a pure gospel based church experience would be beautiful and people would be flocking to be a part of it and remain.  
But, humans.

29 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Yes, there are difficulties no matter which way we go.

 

Indeed.  Thank you for stating this .  No one wins here. 

Good. 

1 hour ago, mbh26 said:

Thank you and Nehor both for your kind words.  I certainly agree that the Lord has different paths for all of us, since we're individuals and one size does not fit all.  But I have found more and more truth in the sermon on the mount at 50 years old.  When I was 16 and read, "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, and pray for those who despitefully use you," I could never make sense of how God could love us and then ask us to do that.  But I can say now that the Lord is right and it works.  

Ok best to you - 

5 minutes ago, mbh26 said:

I think it's more common than we care to admit.  I just wanted to share how I overcame it.  Jesus Christ is always the answer.

Sometimes because of Jesus we put our  foot down and  insist on being treated respectfully and humanely.  
I’m not telling YOU to do things differently.  I’m speaking for anyone reading, thinking they need to do things like you. 
best wishes, you’ve been through it.

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I believe God allows flawed human beings to run the Church because if they were more effective, fewer would feel the need to seek out the Spirit for themselves.  It is so much easier to look outside at another person for direction from God than it is to look inside and try to connect to the Spirit oneself….if only because we seem to be more willing to trust that the other isn’t struggling while we often know we are.

I don’t think God has a choice 😅

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

I don't know how he is when speaking personally to someone, but when Pres. Oaks is speaking in his calling he does have a reputation for being very business-like, precise, and without much emotion.  He reminds me of Smac in his speaking style and I'm assuming it has something to do with being trained as a lawyer.  For some members that will be his strength and for others it will be his weakness.

I'm not comparing the 12 to Jesus because there is no comparison, but Christianity has a history of 'speaking cagily' sometimes. Christ did it on purpose and for a reason but I think with our leaders most of the time it's because they are flawed humans talking to millions of people with very different baggage, experiences, and levels of spiritual maturity.   It's a recipe for misunderstanding in a religion that believes in teaching correct principles and then letting the members govern themselves in all but the most serious of things. 

When we are guided by the spirit and staying close to Christ I think we do ok, even when we get it wrong sometimes.  I think that's why God is ok with us with all of us very messed up people out here trying to do His work.  If we are distant from the spirit then yeah, it sucks.

(I sometimes wish they were more strident in their teachings and forceful in declaring truth as well.  But in the moments that they are, those always seem to be the times when the members freak out the most because they don't like what they are saying.  I don't know if we really want them to be more vocal in general as much as we want them to be more vocal when they agree with us).

I certainly don’t want more directives from human beings.. There’s too much personal opinion in such directives and we are all different.  I’m not critical of them so much as I am critical of folks who hang on every word and expect everybody to do the same

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

see apostles complaining about people not listening to the things they teach but a lot of the time it is because they don’t acknowledge changes they have subtly made without telling anyone.

Exactly.  I’m not one to hang on every word of the 12.  I listen and consult with God, and make my path.  It would be confusing otherwise. 

11 hours ago, longview said:

RFK jr is a scion in the Democrat party. You should trust him and his many years of research.

I’m surprised by this comment.  I’m more D leading than R but even I have instincts to ignore his opinions. By the way I’m a great granddaughter to the Snelgrove ice cream founder- AND a life long member of the Church of a Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints - what can you trust about me? (Nothing.  I dislike ice cream) 

I wonder if he’d finance health care for someone who is overweight. 

57 minutes ago, longview said:

But rather, something that both the recipient and giver enjoy or appreciate.

A real gift is knowing what the other wants and offering when it’s not my cup of tea. imo  

On 4/9/2026 at 9:44 PM, JAHS said:

Personally I don't think one should talk about issues with their spouse on a public discussion group, unless it is to praise and express love for them. 
It should be handled between the two of you.

I purchase ice cream for my husband but I don’t eat it because it’s unhealthy.  It feels fine to me to do so.  

It’s interesting. I had a dinner guest Monday who announced at dinner that he did not believe in the moon landing. I asked him if he was a flat earther (brilliant minds thinking alike here lol ) and he said no.

My reply was, I do believe we landed on the moon, but if it came to the point of proof it didn’t happen, I’d be so unsurprised. 

My cheap 2cents- 

The emotional reaction that doesn’t seem to fit the situation indicates that there’s something deeper going on for her. There’s only one way to find out and that’s by having a conversation with her. If she was previously partnered with an alcoholic, my wild guess would be there’s something there. She may perceive that now the floodgates have opened with the decision to pay for alcohol for your kids meals and she may fear where that is going. She may have been simply triggered by seeing the alcohol on the counter. To me, without any information, discovering by surprise  out that my husband purchased alcohol would be jarring to me, and that I have always felt safe in our sobriety.

2 hours ago, smac97 said:

2 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Quote

As long as I obey the Law of Chastity, I don't need to fear.  Otherwise, I do.  The same goes for all of us.

We all should follow the chastity rule whether we are gay or straight or otherwise.  Zero sex outside of marriage.  I don’t think anyone needs to debate this on an LDS forum.

And yet, here we are.

I don’t see anyone arguing against you on this point. I’m glad we agree on this as well. 

2 hours ago, smac97 said:

law.

2 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

So your life experience, and mine, is irrelevant and should not be held up as an example of righteousness against someone who is designed differently.  IMO.  

Expand  

I don't know what you are referencing here.  I have not presented by "life experience ... as an example of righteousness against" anyone

Then I’m glad we agree.  

15 minutes ago, smac97 said:

As long as I obey the Law of Chastity, I don't need to fear.  Otherwise, I do.  The same goes for all of us.

We all should follow the chastity rule whether we are gay or straight or otherwise.  Zero sex outside of marriage.  I don’t think anyone needs to debate this on an LDS forum.  
 

The rule to never marry a same -gender -as -you person does not carry the same weight for you a hetero as it does someone who is gay.  So your life experience, and mine, is irrelevant and should not be held up as an example of righteousness against someone who is designed differently.  IMO.  

We attach ourselves so tightly to traditions that even when our traditions are pried from cold dead hands we refuse to speak to what is happening. 
 

why are we like this? Is it because we are highly defensive due to generational abuse from the outside? I imagine so. 
 

so many testimonies I’ve heard are in part based on this very tradition.  My guess is if it was changed it would rattle a lot of older generations cages for a few reasons- older people don’t appreciate getting put out to pasture or watching it be done to others simply due to a number.  Then there’s the lifelong belief that God will not steer his prophets wrong, and since all prophets had been put in place decades previously, we can trust that what is meant to be is meant to be. 
My brain doesn’t need that reassurance these days- but what it does need is accountability. ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I strongly believed that it was a choice when I was a teen. It made perfect sense. I had good attractions and I had bad attractions and I was supposed to choose the right (i.e. the girl). I assumed all “straight” guys like me secretly had crushes on other guys and we were all just politely pretending we weren’t and the homophobic banter was a way to let off steam.

When I found out that straight people didn’t feel that way my mind was blown. I have a private theory that the whole ‘being gay is a choice’ thing was created by closeted bi/pan people who viewed the conflict as a kind of internal spiritual warfare the way I did. Now I am just baffled as to why so many straight people believed it.

Not directly. It does allow therapists to try to correct sexual orientation through therapy though it will probably not be a practice that is endorsed by agencies that license therapists. I am betting some members will use this for themselves or for their children if they feel desperate or scared or angry or whatever.

LDS bishops refer to LDS therapists .  Private practice providers licensed or not will have freedom to try to push their own agendas .  There are PLENTY of LDS or other Christian’s who believe homosexual orientation is a choice and is a sin.  And there is a lot of unethical and yes twisted therapy out there . 

I personally know so many parents who, unlike you are legitimately homophobic. They are cruel.  If these type of parents have children who confess to “ same-sex attraction” , what has happened in the past is that these parents will search out conversion therapists.   Conversion therapists will try to therapize (not a word) the gay out of the child.  
We understand now, and the church acknowledges, that the gay cannot be analyzed away. Rather, the shame is drilled in through the therapeutic process.  It does significant damage to the individual, obviously. 

Twisted parents will see this as an opportunity. Good luck kids!  

I’m shocked.  As GD teacher, this will be very interesting- enough time to teach a single concept and then we out. Hmmmm- 

well now that women can ring the bell, we return to the need for it 😂