nuclearfuels

Curious as to if this is something the Church and FamilySearch allow: Sources on Cain's descendants: Biblical Sources: Genesis 4:17-24 (King James Version) Genesis 4:17-24 (New International Version) Non-Biblical Sources: The Book of Jubilees ( Jewish apocrypha, 2nd century BCE) The Book of Enoch ( Jewish apocrypha, 3rd century BCE) The Apocalypse of Pseudo-Methodius ( Christian apocrypha, 7th century CE) The Cave of Treasures ( Syriac Christian text, 6th century CE) The History of the Patriarchs ( Islamic text, 9th century CE) Other Sources: The Complete Works of Josephus ( Jewish historian, 1st century CE) The Ante-Nicene Fathers ( Christian texts, 2nd-4th century CE) The Gnostic Scriptures ( Gnostic Christian texts, 2nd-4th century CE) Please note that some of these sources may have varying degrees of reliability, and interpretations may differ. Additionally, there may be other sources that explore Cain's descendants beyond these listed here.

1. Perhaps - in order to facilitate God's children to multiply and replenish the earth, the Church leaders are planning on reducing pesticides and other components that reduce health and fertility? 2. As we approach the Second Coming, economies will become more and more unstable so food storage and distribution at an institutional level are warranted.

Thanks CV! Seems more likely than all of us learning lessons - not walking by sight - and then returning to God's presence, no? Otherwise it seems like out premortal lessons were basically like the experiences from the book titled The Giver

An Ogden UT Temple worker told me a while back: 1. Between 50 and 100 Temples will be announced 2. We might be encouraged to add water to our food storage, like having enough incase water becomes less available 3. I've heard the missionaries should be full time teachers and the members should be full time finders; might be emphasized?

Seeking your thoughts on the possibility and probability of all of us progressing to the point of being born into a human mortal body with a human, mortal-shaped / faceted spirit body, after successfully completing these previous periods of growth and progression: First Day: Creation of light (Genesis 1:3-5; Moses 2:3-5; Abraham 4:3-5). This would be when we came from God's presence and according to the degree of our ability, shined, separated light from darkness, etc. Second Day: Separation of the firmament (Genesis 1:6-8; Moses 2:6-8; Abraham 4:6-8) This would be when we came from God's presence and according to the degree of our ability, connected with other Intelligences - some of us helped form the firmament (I've definitely been rock-like in more than one Sacrament meeting ), some of us were clouds, some of us returned promising to shine even brighter than we did last time, etc. Third Day: Creation of land, seas, and vegetation (Genesis 1:9-13; Moses 2:9-13; Abraham 4:9-13) This would be when we came from God's presence and according to the degree of our ability, we connected with other intelligences and became part of the land, seas, or vegetation - fulfilling the measure of our creation. Fourth Day: Creation of sun, moon, and stars (Genesis 1:14-19; Moses 2:14-19; Abraham 4:14-19) This would be when we came from God's presence and according to the degree of our ability, shined - as part of the sun, moon, stars, continued to separate light from darkness, etc. Fifth Day: Creation of fish, fowl, and other aquatic animals (Genesis 1:20-23; Moses 2:20-23; Abraham 4:20-23) This would be when we came from God's presence having achieved a spirit body that correlated to our form of that day (fish, fowl, other aquatic animals, etc.) and according to the degree of our ability, fulfilled the measure of our creation. Sixth Day: Creation of land animals and humanity (Genesis 1:24-31; Moses 2:24-31; Abraham 4:24-31) This would be when we came from God's presence and according to the degree of our ability, took our form of the day - animal or human, or animal and later, human. Seventh Day: Rest and sanctification (Genesis 2:1-3; Moses 3:1-3; Abraham 5:1-3) We live, die, are judged, resurrected, continue to progress eternally - overtime giving pre-mortal lessons to other intelligences, some of whom will progress and grow to the point of obtaining a mortal body. After each Day, we'd return and report on what we did and how we did the best we could and can not progress further without the Savior's grace. The Savior or His servants there (Apostles, GA's, Stake leaders, ward leaders, ministering brothers and sisters, etc.) would share with us how proud God is of the progress we made, how it's ok if we need another try, a slower paced lesson, etc. and how God and Jesus know we'll make it in time back home to them in a resurrcted immortal perfect body. * * * President Boyd K. Packer remembers being in the temple with President McKay just before President McKay’s death. After finishing an Endowment ceremony, President McKay exclaimed, “I think I am beginning to understand it.”[3] Even after sixty-five years of being an Apostle, he was still a student. (Note: 65 years serving as an Apostle where I think the Quorum attends the Temple once per week, = 3,380 times of completing the Endowment (if we assume he never completed that ordinance prior to being ordained an apostle.)) https://rsc.byu.edu/vol-4-no-2-2003/recollections-david-o-mckays-educational-practices https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-david-o-mckay/the-life-and-ministry-of-david-o-mckay?lang=eng

THank you! Are you writing or copying from a book you wrote? You're like Nibley-level, bruh

100% agreed. That's really my question here - FamilySearch states: Vital records for people born prior to A.D. 200 are generally considered unreliable, except for some Asian countries. As such, Family Tree does not qualify people who lived before A.D. 200 for temple ordinances unless they are from China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Malaysia, or Singapore. There are billions of deceased people whose work can not be done, if FS' claim is correct.

WOW! Thank you, Pyreaux! Any chance you could share sources on the part of your response I quoted? THe three kings have alwasy fascinated me and I recall vaguely someone saying they had the Melchezidek Priesthood, maybe James E. Talmage but I wasnt able to find the reference

The Melchizedek priesthood was held by prophets of God between the time that Israel broke the covenant on Mount Sinai (and the Melchizedek priesthood was taken from among them and they were left with the Aaronic or Levitical priesthood), and the time of Christ. As it says here in Duties and Blessings of the Priesthood: Basic Manual for Priesthood Holders, Part A, Lesson 2: The Priesthood from Adam to the Restoration: So I suspect that the prophets that were around during Solomon's time and David's time (Nathan) would have held the Melchizedek priesthood.

Seems like they may have been performed by prophets who held the MP but the ordinance was completed outside the Temple, eh @InCognitus?

So - Melchizedek had the highest priesthood and gave it to Abraham or blessed Abraham via the MP. The Savior gave Peter, James and John the MP. What happened between? An apostasy before the Apostasy, I believe? If so, marriages and other MP-requiring ordinances performed in Temples prior to the Savior's life (and after - up until the Restoration) were perfomred via the Aaronic and Levitical priesthoods, no? Therefore, Temple Work needs to be done for those who lived after Abraham and before the Savior, no? Part of this would include me serving as proxy for Solomon being sealed to his 700 wives and 300 concubines (w/ the acknowledged caveat that most of his marriages were political and that concubines were not wives but doing Temple work / showing devotion "not for the weeds" is also a net positive thing to do), no? I'd be disappointed to learn we cant do this Temple work until the Millennium, when all those who passed away will do their own Temple work. Bruh.

True - the tradition starting generally after St Patrick's life

Agreed. So - likely the Mt of Transfiguration then.

So true! I used Meta.ai to help w/ the research. Meta suggested the Da Vinci Code but IMHO, the Savior being married and having kids doesn't lessen His Divine nature, it strengthens it. Also, I've been researching the Catholic Church's policy on clerical celibacy - some Gen AI tools suggest it wasn't officially announced until roughly 400 - 500 AD. Is that correct?

Agreed, 100% Just curious - who was the Sealer at His wedding? Moses, Elias, Elijah I suppose are candidates if it occurred at the Mt of Transfiguration

I'm sure you are correct. Just curious as to who the Sealer was at his wedding(s)

Bruh - that's me. 100%

Some sources suggest the Savior was married [1] with some suggesting He was polygamous,[1] with the reception being held at Cana where He turned water into wine.[2] If He was married, is it likely He would have been married in Solomon’s Temple? If He and His fiancée would have been allowed into the Temple by the Jews, wouldn’t His marriage ordinance have been completed via the Levitical priesthood not the Melchizedek priesthood and not with the key of the sealing power? We know the Savior was baptized (we know where, when and by whom). We have theories if not doctrine suggesting the Mount of Transfiguration being a place where the Savior received some if not all of the Temple ordinances.[3] I’m not sure He would have been married at that location though I understand why that wouldn’t have been written about. 3. Therefore, should we not serve as proxy for a sealing ordinance in a current Temple by someone who holds the Melchizedek priesthood and the key of the sealing power, for the Savior’s possible wife? And children? 4. If the sources cited are insufficient, could we not serve as proxy in the Temple “not for the weeds”[4] but to show devotion – even if the ordinance is not needed? Being a savior on Mount Zion [see Obadiah 1:21] for THE Savior, as it were. It’s not as though we believe every person for whom we do proxy ordinances immediately accepts of that work. We know some will reject the work - which to me suggests we do at least occasionally attend the Temple "not for the weeds." Note: Friends of mine have told me this suggestion is both heretical (which I don't mind) and blasphemous (which I'd like to avoid, if that is actually what this is). 1. [1] The Journal of Discourses (not considered doctrine of the Church) (a collection of sermons): Volume 4, page 259, mentions Jesus being married; 2. The Apocryphon of John (a Gnostic text): This text mentions Jesus' relationship with Mary Magdalene and implies a possible intimate connection; 3. The Pistis Sophia (a Gnostic text): This text also mentions Jesus' close relationship with Mary Magdalene. 4. The Gospel of Jesus' Wife (a fragmentary papyrus): This 2012 discovery sparked debate about Jesus' possible marriage, but its authenticity is disputed. 5. "Jesus and the Lost Goddess" by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy: This book explores the idea of Jesus and Mary Magdalene as a divine couple. 6. "The Jesus Mysteries" by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy: Another book by the same authors, examining the possibility of Jesus being married. 7. "The Sacred Marriage" by Jeffrey F. Toney: This book explores the concept of sacred marriage in ancient cultures and its possible connection to Jesus. 8. The Gospel of Philip (a Gnostic text): This text mentions Jesus' relationship with Mary Magdalene, describing her as his "companion" and "partner". 9. The Gospel of Mary (a Gnostic text): This text also mentions Jesus' close relationship with Mary Magdalene, implying a possible intimate connection. 10. The Holy Blood, Holy Grail (a book by Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, and Henry Lincoln): This book proposes a theory that Jesus and Mary Magdalene had a child together and that their descendants became the Merovingian dynasty of France 11. The Journal of Discourses: Volume 11, page 269, mentions Jesus having multiple wives 12. "Jesus and the Lost Goddess" by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy: This book explores the idea of Jesus and Mary Magdalene as a divine couple and suggests polygamy. 1. [2] The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus Christ by Levi Dowling (1908): This book claims Jesus' marriage to Mary Magdalene and suggests that the wedding at Cana was His own. 2. The Gospel of Philip (a Gnostic text): This text mentions Jesus' relationship with Mary Magdalene and implies a possible intimate connection, but does not explicitly state that the wedding at Cana was His own. 3. The Gospel of Mary (a Gnostic text): Similar to The Gospel of Philip, this text mentions Jesus' close relationship with Mary Magdalene but does not explicitly state that the wedding at Cana was His own. 4. "Jesus and the Lost Goddess" by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy (2001): This book explores the idea of Jesus and Mary Magdalene as a divine couple and suggests that the wedding at Cana might have been their own. 5. "The Jesus Mysteries" by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy (1999): Another book by the same authors, examining the possibility of Jesus being married and the wedding at Cana being His own. 1. [3] Doctrine and Covenants 138:11-13: This section describes a vision of the afterlife, where Jesus appears and teaches about the "ordinances of the house of the Lord." Some interpret this as a reference to the Endowment ordinance. 2. The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 535: The former President suggests that Jesus may have received "all the ordinances of the temple" during His transfiguration. 3. The Life and Teachings of Jesus and His Apostles, p. 434: This manual states that Jesus "received the fulness of the Father" during the transfiguration, which some interpret as including Temple ordinances like the Endowment. 4. The Guide to the Scriptures, "Transfiguration": This online resource mentions that Jesus "received the fulness of the Father" and that this experience "may have included Temple ordinances." [4] See Elder Henry B. Eyring, “Waiting upon the Lord,” Brigham Young University 1990–91 Devotional and Fireside Speeches, 22. https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/henry-b-eyring/waiting-upon-lord/

Thanks Smac. I think you nailed it

I’m having trouble reconciling the following philosophies / teachings: 1. The Church is politically neutral[1] and encourages people to vote however they feel. I agree. At the same time, America is a "choice land, "the land of promise," etc. and the US[2] and the Constitution are inspired[3], as was Columbus[4], but nationalism (; loyalty and devotion to a nation especially as expressed in a glorifying of one nation above all others and a stressing of the promotion of its culture and interests; an ideology that emphasizes loyalty, devotion, or allegiance to a nation or nation-state and holds that such obligations outweigh other individual or group interests) is bad[5]/not preferred/discouraged/unholy? 2. Everywhere the GA’s travel, they see wonderful people and cultures they love[6]. That’s great and all. I’m just not sure travelling on a private plane or in first class or in coach on someone else’s dime for over 40 years - to events where your attendance is celebrated, revered, etc. is the average person’s experience; some of us and our family members have lost jobs, been unable to compete with cheap labor, not been able to receive social services due to US demographics. To state, understand these things and prepare and responding accordingly is…bad/misguided/unholy? Note to mods: Please help me reconcile a couple things. Thank you in advance for your patience. [1] https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/official-statement/political-neutrality and https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/topics/political-neutrality?lang=eng [2] https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1979/10/a-witness-and-a-warning?lang=eng#p17 [3] Defending Our Divinely Inspired Constitution (churchofjesuschrist.org) [4] Columbus: Fulfillment of Book of Mormon Prophecy | Religious Studies Center (byu.edu) and Chapter 4: 1 Nephi 12–15 (churchofjesuschrist.org) [5] The Trek Continues! (churchofjesuschrist.org) and Choices for Eternity (churchofjesuschrist.org) [6] Choices for Eternity (churchofjesuschrist.org)

Thank you @Mfbnew Is there a handbook section which captures this?

I've heard from a family history specialist that: 1. Ancestors who lived prior to 1400 AD are likely in lines of royalty and their work has already been done. (Why is that not recorded in FamilySearch, bruh?) 2. Ancestor who lived prior to 1400 AD - the records are sketchy, unreliable, not validated, etc. so doing their Temple work is not a current expectation. Are either of these claims in the Church Handbook(s)? I ask because some of my pioneer heritage lines date back to Adam and Eve. Also, doing research I discovered a famous person (circa 400 AD) was married and I'd like to help him get sealed or married to his wife for time and all eternity. 3. Some people anciently falsified their ancestry claiming they were connected to royalty so one needs to verify that such is not the case with one's ancestral lines that date back to Jehoiakim and thus back to Adam and Eve. (Happy to verify - not sure exactly how though) 4. In a few years AI will populate all of our ancestor lines and all we'll need to do is verify the accuracy and do their Temple work. (This I can see happening.)

Speaking of dodges, it's always fascinating when people who don't yet have children have such strong opinions on what people with children should do.

Yes - why would parents know anything about their children?

Thanks in advance for your responses, as I'm seeking understanding. 1. Who has viewing access to the amount of tithing members pay? Bishops, branch presidencies, stake presidencies? 2. Who has viewing access to Temple attendance of members? Bishops, branch presidencies, stake presidencies? 3. I have a suggestion for a potential policy for the Church handbook (basically local members would provide food (from the store / bishop's storehouse where possible / or homemade food so tourists could keep the Sabbath Day holy instead of eating out; it would include a signed disclosure (similar to the waivers used for youth outings, camp outs, etc.) from both the tourists and local members releasing the church from liability for any adverse health outcomes from eating the food or interacting (all interactions would be at the local chapels only - though not taking a taxi / uber / lyft to church seems to be related and helpful in Sabbath observance - the driver (local members) would be compensated at the rate Seminary teachers are compensated for driving to the chapel for each lesson ($0.07/mile I believe)). I don't find it difficult and actually enjoy the "challenge" of eating in the hotel room or buying food before hand, to eat on Sunday and some good friends of ours who are active eat out on Sundays while on vacation without reservation. Who may I share this suggested rough draft policy (after I write it up with handbook references and scripture references)? 4. Why is it considered bad / apostate / presumptuous for me to submit such a suggestion? My testimony isn't struggling. I would understand if there was a proecss for submitting such suggestions through local priesthood leadership, and as directed by the Spirit they woudl edit, update, reject, or submit up the chian of comamnd suhc a suggested policy update. Other rounds of review would lead to a much better final product if it wasn't simply not employed. I get that. What I dont get is why we're not supposed to submit suggestions, or doing so is seen as bad / unruly / etc. 5. Similar question for missionary applications - where do parents submit their suggestions, views, etc. with the acknowledgement that parents are not First Presidency members. Surely the parents' experience and opinion is "good info" which can / may/ does / might, etc. lead to good inspiration.