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Meadowchik

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Everything posted by Meadowchik

  1. What's the righteous way to try to help that unborn person? Even if the thing you're trying to stop is wicked, the way you treat others in their choices can compound or mitigate the evil. Good intentions aren't enough, right?
  2. No, but good on her for not being afraid of revealing her anger especially if it's reasoned and righteous. Lots of righteous people are correct to be angry now, especially if that anger flows out of empathy for the oppressed (women) and for the unborn...the "pro-life" platform makes very little noise about the well-being of the unborn outside of its political agenda to ban abortion.
  3. It gets better all the time, on an individual/communal basis, but it can also get worse for some people. I think that empathy would go a long way.
  4. You attacked my motives, going beyond accusing me of "spreading false information" --which btw you did not reply with references when issued a CFR. It's easy to throw out derogatory garbage instead of really getting into the issue which is what something like this requires if we're really going to help.
  5. Advocacy for the unborn without advocacy for the mother is impossible.
  6. There's no perfect comparison or analogy for the relationship between mother and unborn. Of course their interest is intertwined, and it is inseparable in ways more literal than anything else in human life. On the other hand, flip the point: her pregnancy impacts no one more than her and the unborn. Conflict of interest is meant to protect involved parties from making decisions that--due to their own personal investment --will interfere with the best interest of the principle parties. In pregnancy, the principle parties are the mother and born. The most principle of the two of them is the mother.
  7. That goes without saying. Who can speak for them the best? The ones who carry them. If you want to advocate for the unborn, you must advocate for their mothers.
  8. This is true, but I speak for myself, you speak for yourself, etc...
  9. Don't speak for me. I was very pro life for ages and spoke up a lot. Then women responded. Eventually I really listened. And I know what it's like to have an unplanned pregnancy. Mine was twins and they're 11 years old. I also know what it's like to have a life disrupted and ability to care for my kids compromised. I work sixty hours, seven days a week currently--trying to get out of the rent cycle that will only give me a life of poverty. Fortunately for me, though, I don't have to worry about an unplanned pregnancy because I have adequate healthcare. And fortunately I also have support. In the next few weeks I'll know if my mortgage has been approved which will change our lives for the better. I've been sick during this time but have been able to keep working and hopefully the underwriter is getting a good reference from my employer. But--to use my own experiences as an example--they are precarious enough that a pregnancy could turn it all sideways. And I am fortunate in lots of ways. Other women not so much. By the way, poverty and scarcity can affect people cognitively. It can have the intellectual effect if sleep deprivation or the equivalence of losing 14 IQ points. In short, I have never felt desperate enough to have an abortion. I have seven kids who I couldn't imagine life without. But I know I have access to more than the majority of women in the US. I understand that my situation could be horribly different through no fault or virtue of my own.
  10. Why do you assume a person must be forcing her? Circumstances can force.
  11. Here's another example of delay: a woman lives in a state that bans abortion after 6 weeks. She doesn't even know she's pregnant till after that. Then she can't afford to travel out of state, and finally when she's saved enough, she's considered late-term.
  12. Instead of that, imagine a world where abortions were accessible, safe, but rarely used. Where instead of trying to force women, society helps them or removes obstacles that prevent them from having safe pregnancies and outcomes.
  13. Lol the implication of my statement is that she's being treated like a mere object only.
  14. Yes, she is. That's why the state should stay out of it, in stead of deciding how she should be responsible or accountable. IOW she is accountable *to herself*. The responsibility starts and stops with her. I think this is probably the core issue many people might have--the idea that a woman or even any person can be accountable to themselves (and maybe God, directly) and themselves alone is difficult to comprehend. But for women and pregnancy, that how we're made. It's a universe within us.
  15. Nope. Nope, they are removing her consent to have or not have that person inside her. Without consent, she is treated as less than. Those facilities depend on the hospital and provider. Women have waited in agony for hospital boards to review the legal requirements. How do you think that works in real life? Any number of situations can delay the decision to continue or not continue a pregnancy. I'll give you a realistic scenario. The woman experience relationship breakdown and become a one income household instead of two. Now she cannot take time off work to continue being pregnant safely, or to stay home with her baby once the baby is born. She has other children so she has to think about them, too.
  16. Doesn't sound like that's happening with abortion bans. They are making it the stewardship of the state instead.
  17. In your view, sure, but you don't know everyone's situations do you?
  18. They do so by treating them as objects carrying the unborn rather than a person with another person inside them. The law is interference inherently, it requires more legal rigor and time of the healthcare provider needed for them to be assured they're complying with the law. This can mean important time for the patient that can be lost and impacting her health negatively. It's not always a matter of choosing to delay, it is often a matter of being forced to delay.
  19. I do, and could think of several ways it could. Deadlines increase the sense of urgency and shorten the time a person has to make a decision.
  20. Yup, the plan God created uses (spontaneous) abortion regularly as part of the process giving life.
  21. Is God morally justified in allowing people to die, including innocents? Is God justified in creating a life process wherein half or almost half of all fertilized eggs/embryos/fetuses die in the womb or are spontaneously aborted by the body? Either God needs no justification or God is justified. Likewise the woman. The universe is God's, and the body of the woman is hers or at the very least is her stewardship given her by God.
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