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Everything posted by InCognitus

  1. In my post I never mentioned what you are doing other than the reference to this thread. But since you brought it up, based on your prior posts it does seem like you are out trying to "find" these things:
  2. My wife teaches a Primary class (Valiant 9-10), and she was preparing her lesson last night and was looking for a good way to illustrate the purpose of a keystone, to teach the principle that the Book of Mormon is the "keystone of our religion". I found this Youtube video for her, and she used it in her lesson and the kids loved it. It demonstrates the importance of the keystone quite well: It was a perfect video for the purpose and the kids loved it.
  3. Goals for 2024: Read the Book of Mormon Go to the Temple regularly Find old videos containing references to the "Mormon Church" and declare them to be Satanic influences Claim that all articles and media content where the church is referred to as "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" instead of the "Mormon Church" as attempts by the Church to make themselves seem like other "Christian" groups After seeing this thread, my goal list for 2024 got a lot shorter. I also have a lot more time on my hands.
  4. Given that the Come Follow Me manuals were completely redesigned this year to accommodate all age groups into one manual, there should be no surprise that there are massive changes. This should be a fun year to identify what's been left out from prior teaching materials and to try to imply a sinister reason for the removal. It will keep some people busy, I'm sure. Or instead, we could just learn from the lesson materials, and find that the same principles of "the great plan of happiness" are found all through the Book of Mormon and in the lesson materials.
  5. Of course it’s not a "rest" provided by or in Joseph Smith. Nobody is saying that except you. “His rest” (in Isaiah 11:10) refers to the "rest" that the person spoken of in the verse will receive as provided by Christ. “His rest” will be “glorious” in Christ. Yes, the "rest" is provided by Christ, and for some (like those described in Doctrine and Covenants 101:31 as quoted in my last post) that "rest" in Christ will be “glorious”. That manual says essentially the same thing as the manual link I posted in my prior post. So I'm not sure what your point is. Doctrine and Covenants 113:1-2 also says that Christ is identified in Isaiah 11, and the lesson material points that out too. And the lesson I posted also acknowledges that Christ is the root and offspring of David (Revelation 22:16), so none of what you bring up above changes anything really. I'm sure you do. But, it seems to me that Joseph Smith endured to the end well, even being willing to die as a martyr by returning to Carthage and submitting himself to the authorities, fully knowing he would die there. He was faithful to his prophetic calling by the Lord unto the end. Actually, Joseph Smith taught that God is from everlasting to everlasting (we believe that too): “By these things we know that there is a God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God, the framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them” (Doctrine and Covenants 20:17) “Behold, and hearken unto the voice of him who has all power, who is from everlasting to everlasting, even Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.” (Doctrine and Covenants 61:1) “O Lord God Almighty, hear us in these our petitions, and answer us from heaven, thy holy habitation, where thou sittest enthroned, with glory, honor, power, majesty, might, dominion, truth, justice, judgment, mercy, and an infinity of fulness, from everlasting to everlasting.” (Doctrine and Covenants 109:77) We also discussed what the Bible means by "from everlasting to everlasting" several times previously (here 07/09/2022, here 07/25/2022, here 08/10/2022, here 10/30/2022, here 11/12/2022, here 11/16/2022, here 11/21/2022, here 11/27/2022, here 12/24/2022), and here 07/10/2023. You simply interpret the Bible differently now than how that phrase was understood in Bible times. As for your belief that Joseph Smith led his followers to worship a “different God”, I suppose you mean it is different than what modern Christians believe about God now, since beliefs about the biblical God have changed over time. The modern belief in absolute monotheism is a recent development, and the relationship of God to his creation has been changed through the years. So I understand why you might see it as “different” from your point of view.
  6. I hadn't read George Potter on this, but when I searched for it, I came across the "Book of Mormon Online" resource here: https://bookofmormon.online/home I had bookmarked that site before, but I had forgotten about it! (I think it was @caspianrex that made me aware of that link previously). Thanks for bringing that up. That site links multiple commentaries to the text:
  7. This board needs a new topic badly, so here it goes . I love reading and studying the Bible. I love the history and the sheer volume of articles available written about it, both secular and spiritual, written about the people and its history, and the study of the manuscripts, as well as the various commentaries and interpretations of the Bible. So as I ended my reading (and re-reading) of the book of Revelation this last week, I have to admit that I was a little bit sad to see us finish up this year's course of study and change our focus away from that book of scripture for another two years. But this afternoon I was rereading the last Come Follow Me lesson for individuals and families on the last chapters of Revelation, and I decided to check out some of the recommended sources. I thought it was interesting that the lesson material dives into the following question, since it is a common claim made against the teachings of the church: I have heard the Revelation 22:18-19 argument used to support the idea that the Bible is "all of Gods word" probably thousands of times, and I know why the argument is flawed. So the first couple of times I read over the lesson material I just glanced over that section and moved on. But today I decided to listen to Elder Holland's talk that is linked to the lesson, "My Words... Never Cease". (I know I've heard it and read it before, but it's been a long time since the talk was given). I'm glad I did, because it reminded me of how important the Book of Mormon is to us. I think the question posed in the lesson (quoted above) and the powerful testimony that Elder Holland bore about the Book of Mormon and ongoing revelation in his talk is a fitting segue to our study of the Book of Mormon this coming year. Now I'm excited to read the Book of Mormon again. I recall this same transition in prior years, and I remember remarking to myself, "Wow, the Book of Mormon is so plain and clear", and I think that is especially noticeable when putting it in contrast to the Bible. To make this into a topic of discussion, do any of you have any favorite study tips or resources for the Book of Mormon? What have you found helpful in your Book of Mormon studies?
  8. No. The tribes of Israel were scattered all over. We don't have the full context for the prophecy of Zenos which was quoted by Nephi, but Nephi was recognizing the parts of the prophecy that he knew applied to his people. The verses seem self explanatory to me. Do you have a specific question about the verses? Is your question about the Gentiles not being subject to kings in the land where Lehi and his family were led? Or something else? I see the verses teaching that the Gentiles are to play a big part in the gathering of Israel, and this is very much the same as what Isaiah says about the Gentiles in Isaiah 49:22–23: "Thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders. And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the Lord: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me." Nephi was well aware of this prophecy, as he quoted Isaiah 49 in 1 Nephi 21.
  9. Not answering the CFR and doing this... Even after being made aware of the board guidelines.... ... is going to get him banned from the board, unfortunately. I don't think he cares.
  10. Just providing a linked reference to the above just in case @NRnowlinMA isn't aware that this is actually an early Christian teaching: Clementine Recognitions 3:34, also on the New Advent site: Recognitions, Book III, Chapter 34. And lets not forget: "And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able." (1 Corinthians 3:1–2) "Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec. Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." (Hebrews 5:10–14)
  11. I think you are mistaken. Many of the references in the Topical Guide point to the “rest” that comes to true believers and followers of Christ. Such as: “Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28) “For we which have believed do enter into rest” (Hebrews 4:3) “Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.” (Hebrews 4:11) And also this, from Doctrine and Covenants, which is talking about the “rest” that will come to righteous individuals during the Millennium: “In that day an infant shall not die until he is old; and his life shall be as the age of a tree; And when he dies he shall not sleep, that is to say in the earth, but shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye, and shall be caught up, and his rest shall be glorious.” So Joseph Smith would easily be included in this category of “rest”. The Doctrine and Covenants doesn’t specifically identify the person. Rather, the Doctrine and Covenants student manual interprets the passage in section 113:3-6 as most likely referring to Joseph Smith. Doctrine and Covenants 113 identifies Christ as the stem of Jesse in Isaiah 11. Or, the Lord revealed that to him instead of Joseph putting himself into scripture. The important point to remember is that these events precede the gathering of Israel, whether it be the two tablets that come "together to form one tablet" in the hand of a prophet as Ezekiel says, or whether it be the ensign that is set up as Isaiah says. These are signs to indicate the beginning of the gathering of Israel.
  12. Well, that would explain why it's translated into Early Modern English. But I'm not sure how that would work for other aspects of the book.
  13. The fact that you missed king Jacob in the Book of Mormon has already been pointed out by teddyaware (see 3 Nephi 7:9-10, 12, and especially 3 Nephi 9:9). But the main problem is your hyper literal interpretation of the verse especially for the meaning of the word "kings". Often the word translated as "kings" in the scriptures refers to the government leaders generally, and not only to countries that have a leader with the actual title of "king". For example, we see verses like Revelation 19:19, where John says that upon the return of Jesus, "I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse". According to your reasoning if this were to be fulfilled today, we'd only see King Charles, III, and the kings of Bahrain, Belgium, Cambodia, Eswatini, Jordan, Lesotho, Morocco, Netherlands, Norway, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Sweden, Thailand, and Tonga out gathered against Jesus, while the United Arab Emirates, the United States, Russia, China, and other countries that have presidents or some other title for their leader (instead of kings) get to sit out. (You'd think the countries that use the title of "king" should have considered this way out of the problem).
  14. The "some" applies to those of the house of Israel that are on the Isles of the sea (i.e. other continents). Not all of the house of Israel were scattered to other continents. In other words, the three days of darkness are a sign unto his death unto those who should inhabit the isles of the sea, specifically to those (who inhabit the isles of the sea) who are of the house of Israel. Could one explain the 3 days of darkness in the Book of Mormon without one or more volcanoes for those Nephites? The clues that indicate that the three days of darkness were related to one or more volcanoes goes way beyond the darkness. Volcanoes would also explain the "thunderings and the lightnings of his power, by tempest, by fire, and by smoke, and vapor of darkness, and by the opening of the earth, and by mountains which shall be carried up" (1 Nephi 19:11)
  15. Next Sunday is the one hour Christmas sacrament meeting (no second hour meeting), so it's short and relevant to the holiday. You should at least to go to that, and then maybe again at Easter. (Except then someone might call you a Chreaster - so maybe you could attend on some other Sunday in addition to Easter ).
  16. I'm not sure that they are de-emphasized, but perhaps we don't recognize them for what they are when we encounter them. As taken from our article of faith, "We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth". I know we regularly talk about (and many have had experiences with) prophecy, revelation, visions, healing. We get talks on revelation on a regular basis, and many of us have experiences with receiving revelation for our callings and families. We don't talk about the gift of tongues and interpretation of tongues that much (except perhaps on missionary experiences). So I agree with you on that one.
  17. How the Word was made flesh has more to do with Jesus being born in the flesh on earth. But I think the opening post is more concerned with the other sense that Jesus was 'begotten" of the Father, as it says in Hebrews, "when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him" (Heb 1:6). How is it that Jesus is the "firstbegotten" (prōtótokon)? The early Christians had some interesting things to say on this topic. Ignatius even goes so far as to classify those who "introduce God as a Being unknown" and "suppose Christ to be unbegotten" in the category of "not Christians, but Christ-betrayers". (Fun times )
  18. Joseph (of Arimathea) was definitely there. (Matt 27:57, Mark 15:43, Luke 23:51, John 19:38)
  19. I think it may be higher than that. I've heard that average sacrament meeting attendance is about 40 to 45%. Demographics can change over time in a ward boundary area as well. In my last ward we had a lot of members that moved to other parts of the city where housing was cheaper and there were other younger families. That caused our ward membership to change in ways that had nothing to do with the person's activity in the church.
  20. I'm not making any distinction. I'm just quoting what the scripture says. I explained that in my last post. If, some of the literal tribes of Israel are found to be in Australia, Japan, or China, then they would be "gathered" and "assembled" there according to steps #1 and #2 of Ezekiel's prophesy, prior to them being returned to their own soil (wherever that may be) in steps #3 and #4 which comes later on. In your prior post you claimed this is "not speaking of gathering Israel into stakes of Zion in countries like Australia, Japan, or China". What evidence do you have that they are not gathered or assembled in one or more of those places prior to them returning to their own lands later on? How does this gathering work in your view? Does one of these scattered people just wake up one morning in China and say to themselves, "Hey, I think I'm of the tribe of Issachar. I feel like migrating, so I'm going to catch a plane to Israel today". Or how do they become recognized for who they are so they can be "gathered" and return to their own lands? Who do you believe this is a reference to? See: DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS STUDENT MANUALSECTION 113, ISAIAH INTERPRETED.
  21. I have not been following any of the details of this whole story other than a brief reading of a few of the posts made here from time to time, and reading a few of the news stories on KSL. But having learned a few interesting tricks on Youtube in the last few months, I thought I'd try to help. In Youtube recently, when you click on the "...more" link to expand a video's description, all the way at the bottom they now have a "Transcript" link, and it opens up an auto-generated transcript at the side of the video. You can search the transcript there, but I selected the whole transcript and pasted it into Notepad, and then searched for the word "psychic". (I prefer to do it in Notepad so that I can see a broader range of context). There are two places where the word "psychic" is used in the entire two hour discussion (assuming the auto-generated transcript spells the words correctly - it often gets things wrong and sometimes in a humorous way). The first time is when the woman is being introduced at the 3:10 mark, where the host says, "they call her the psychic but calls herself the sidekick, and I think others have given you that name". The second time is at the 1:43:10 mark, but you need to back up before that point to get the context of what she's saying, but I think that is the part that you may be looking for. She talks about the origin of the claim where "tens of thousands of dollars were spent on a psychic speaking to the deceased Prophet Nephi". She says that story came from Troy Rollins, and that he wrongfully got into some of her emails through a "Google portal"(??), and both the host and the woman make Rollins out to be a liar. But I don't think she describes the actual contents of her emails that I noticed. I don't claim to have any understanding or interpretation of any of this, I'm just reporting what I found
  22. Or, some of the apostles that were there to witnesses the events took good notes and reported it after the fact.
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