EllenMaksoud
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Posts posted by EllenMaksoud
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I'm glad you're posting again Ellen, sounds like you're in a good place in your life, whatever it is. You come across as if you have some peace.
It looks like I am going to Wales for three months soon. Hopefully, it will seem better then. I have finally understood that I will never have acceptance in this life. When I return if I go to church it will be a new ward. I'll just stay for sacrament, and not give my full name or address. They limit me to 12 posts a day, that's fine. And I can not start any new posts. What am I doing?
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Hi, I am new here. I am sorry if I shouldn’t be posting on here, but I am lost on how to learn more about Mormons and the LDS without creating concerning issues in my personal life.
I am not sure what I should share about me so I will limit it. I am a Christian ( baptized 3 plus years ago ) and active in my local church. I find myself constantly feeling lost and missing something in my life. No where I look I seem to find what I am looking for. I came across the LDS and started researching it. That’s when I discovered what it was I am missing. Family. Never really had one that cared or valued as a part of one. Mormons seem to really have a strong sense of family structure and value that stands out. So I am just looking to learn more.
I can not just pick up a phone or meet with a Mormon. I live with others and there is a huge issue that will work out if I am known to be talking to Mormons. Not physically concerning, but enough to make it very not okay. So this is why I try to search on line and when I discovered this site, joined. I just want to know more about Mormons and the LSD ( and the whole family structure value thing ).
I apologize if I should not be here or if my post is wrong. Thx.
The Mormons are great. The Missionaries will meet with you away from home. There is a lot of disinformation about Mormons. They do not do orgies or blood sacrifices in their temples. Mormons believe in Jesus Christ, and a living prophet. And, NO, the last paragraph in the book of Revelation does not apply to the whole bible. Read it carefully. If you are a conventional heterosexual and want a family, this is the place for you. However, the whole culture is geared to a very conventional man/woman with children marriage. If you fall outside those limits, the church is not for you.
I came from Islam, and the church was great for me until they started trying to figure out what to do about my being intersexed. That is still up in the air and they violate their own doctrines in dithering about the issue. I was very hurt and have just returned to Islam. It was a very nice three years. I wish them the best.
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Can someone who is homosexual have a successful marriage with someone of the opposite sex?
It seems that one of the many reasons that people are advocating SSM is that they claim it is not possible to have a successful marriage and a meaningful relationship with someone of the opposite sex. Is this true?
Can there be a successful (opposite sex) marriage if one or both parties experiences same sex attraction?
I personally know two couples where the husband is homosexual. One couple did not make it, but years later the wife says they could have made a go of it if she had been more understanding. I do not know if that is only wishful thinking. They had five children that grew up with out a father in the home. As to his making any of his children homosexual, that is bad fiction.
The second couple have six children and then he decides that he is homosexual. I'm not feeling terribly sympathetic toward the couple. Wait, you have six children and then there is trouble? What! The chilren all less than 12 years old are wonderful, lovely, sweet children, one boy and five girls. They are still married but the struggle is painfully obvious. I hope they can stay together and get along until the youngest, who is two, gets married.
I think it would have been less painful for the two dads to not have been taught to repress their feelings and to have not gotten married. Now there are eleven innocent victims. How can that be Christ like? No, after this I am not open to the church position. They need to drag themselves, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century.
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A simple thought experiment:
What if there is no Second Coming of Jesus Christ or it is postponed indefinitely? For a Church like ours, founded and focused on a millennial mission, how long does the Church survive as an institution before a lack of a second coming cause serious fractures in our founding narrative?
A note on who I am and where I'm coming from:
I've been around these boards off-and-on, mostly as a lurker, for close to ten years. I'm a (mostly) faithful member of the Church, though I have struggled with my faith for close to six years now. I am at peace with the idea that I hope that it is all true, and that I can live my life in accordance with that hope. This board has been a great strength to me and can take a lot of credit for the fact that I've held on to my fragile faith for as long as I have.
At this time, I am trying to sort through what I can embrace as literal truth and what I can, for the time being, categorize as symbolic truth. One of these issues is the doctrine of the Second Coming.
I love the church as an institution, and hope that it will provide the same strength and sense of purpose to my children that it has provided to me. But what would happen to the Church as an institution if the Second coming is postponed indefinitely? Does it collapse? Does it slowly and subtly change its focus? Am I setting my children or grandchildren up for inevitable heart break?
Thanks (in advance) for taking this question seriously and (once again) providing me with valuable insight.
I have always felt that it is we who are holding the second coming up, not God. When we come to the place where we are truly obedient, then perhaps. Or, perhaps the second coming occurs in our risen souls?
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I don't disagree with what you say, but, in my opinion. the public perception was the it was a Mormon effort.
In a court of law, perhaps what you say is important, but in the court of public opinion, no one cared. The only people who bring up the difference are LDS.
Ask yourself this. Do you think that the average person is aware of where and how the Catholic's organized? I don't. The average person just knows that "the Catholic Church" was involved. For a Catholic to point out that it was a grassroots efforts by Catholics makes very little difference to everyone who isn't Catholic.
Here in Oregon, a stake counselor told me that no matter what anyone thought, the church would eventually go down to defeat in the Prop 8 issue to avoid litigation that will likely go clear to the Federal Supreme Court. I am so torn by this that I have no rational opinion.
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I was reading the Lectures on Faith and compared it with some of the notes made onThere it stated that, "For instance, in Lecture 5, paragraph 2, it defines the Fatheras a "personage of spirit, glory and power." Whereas in section 130 of the Doctrineand Covenants, verse 22 states that "the Father has a body of flesh and bones astangible as man's." In addition, the Father and Son are said to possess the same mind,"which mind is the Holy Spirit" (Lecture 5, paragraph 2). The Holy Spirit is not apersonage, as defined at the beginning of paragraph 2: "There are two personages whoconstitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things...Theyare the Father and Son."See attached pdf file.What inspired the Latter-day Saints to disbelieve the Holy Ghost was a personage inthe Godhead for some of their history? Was it some scripture, the teaching of JosephSmith, or another subsequent LDS president?What revelation (and time frame) led to the teaching that the Holy Spirit was actually thethird personage in the Godhead?Thanks,Jim
Practically speaking, the trinity was first mentioned in the 4th century as old documents show. I actually don't accept much of what the apostate said. And I am very comfortable with allowing inequalities to exist until such time that God decides to straighten it all out. We seem to think that only three personages exist but what about the Heavenly Host? Where do they fit in all this?
Now I am going to go listen to "Evanescence" loud enough to make my ears bleed.
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http://52weeks52churches.blogspot.com/2014/05/my-surreal-visit-to-apostolic-united.html?m=1
Just thought this might make for some interesting observations - a guy with no particular religious beliefs is visiting churches in his area at random. And he actually just randomly shows up at a polyamist group sacrament meeting. (I found this interesting because I live right near them too).
His observations are really interesting (although he gets quite a few of his facts wrong as people correct him in the comments below). I know it's an opinion blog but we all hate it when our beliefs are portrayed incorrectly.
Just randomly showing up and providing an outsiders view...crazy. Makes me wonder what the average investigator thinks the first time they attend a sacrament meeting in the Church. How do we appear to outsider eyes?
I wonder what his objective is? Is he intending to write an expose on the subject?
I don't think that LDS church functions are that different from my fundamentalist experiences. There are some refreshing differences, however. No Rock Music, respectful, faithful hyms are another. I had intended to drive down to Colorado City this summer to see them this summer, but that will not happen now.
I've seen evidence of their existence in Oregon, Washington and Idaho, and as far as I am concerned, as long as it is all voluntary and no abuse occurs then let them alone. There could be some brain washing that would cause the disillusioned to fear leaving. I was brain washed in my old denomination and did not know I could leave. It is not very important to me if the SLC leadership accepts them or not.
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There is some tension over dress codes which require "modesty"... I wonder how this tension would change if the church used a different word - instead of suggesting "modest" dress, they could instead suggest "professional" dress? No one is offended if they were asked to wear business casual, right? Dressing professionally is usually synonymous with dressing modestly.
Why is it offensive to some to be asked to dress modestly, but not offensive to be asked to dress professionally?
I'm getting so old that I try to please others a lot less. Pretty much I just do ME. And, perhaps most of my mores come from my Amish stepfather, and how the Muslims affected me. So, mostly I look like a Muslim woman, even in Sacrament, and no one has said anything about it more than once.
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On reflection, I want to say that my intent here isn't to accuse anyone but to let people know that this kind of thing happens, and it shouldn't. I very much appreciated Elder Holland's statement that he would never cut off any of his kids, no matter what. It just saddens me that such stuff happens.
Are some ex-Mormons unpleasant jerks? Of course. I can be a jerk sometimes. Do some Mormons cut off family and friends who leave the church? Yes, it happens sometimes, even when the person being shunned isn't behaving badly.
No matter our beliefs, we ought to treat each other with kindness and respect and not look for ways to build walls between us. That goes for all of us, in my view.
And, there is that chance as small as it may be, that the church or someone in the church has not acted correctly and rather than put up with it a person just might walk away. A few weeks ago we had a lesson about why people walk away, and the person who gave it painted the "leavers" in a very dark light as if it was always their failing. I sit in the back now, so just got up and left.
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Ken's post was a joke; his tongue was so firmly in his cheek that it's surprising anyone could make out a word he said.
That's why one of the board nannies promptly started scolding him about how "inthenthitive" he was being.
Regards,
Pahoran
LOL
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1. All the time (every week); in smaller wards and branches, it may happen once or twice a month (or less; the standards tend to be looser in smaller units, because the bishop or branch president cannot lord his authority over anyone if there's no one left to lord it over);
2. Everyone; to not do so would be to risk Church discipline;
3. In my ward, the Bishopric member conducting announces the names of people who are to be shunned. They are escorted to the front of the chapel, whereupon the rest of the congregation is instructed to stand and face away from the members being shunned, formally turning their backs on them. Shunned members then are escorted from the building through a side entrance, and the rest of the members in the congregation reassume their normal positions;
4. The Bishop presides over the formal shunning ceremony;
5. The remaining membership must maintain its unbesmirched purity somehow.
I have never seen such a practice anywhere I have been in the Mormon church. Now the Four Square did an informal shunning on me, and that propelled me out of Christianity like a man spitting out a huge chew.
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Matt. 6: 7
"But when ye pray use not vain repetitions as the heathen do: for they think they shall be heard for their much speaking."
Mark 11:24
"Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them."
Can't remember where it is right now but there is a scriptural qualifier to the above reference stating that "we must ask not amiss". In other words "don't pray for things you shouldn't", it's not a good thing. Worse yet you might actually GET them and the trouble that accompanies them.
I am living in Matt 6 right now and it is having such an impact on me. From past experience I know that a "Four Square" pastor would explain it away. The Muslim Imam would likely applaud some of it and then come up with some sermon from the Qur'an that would beat me down.
Often people have preached that we should pray specifically for what we need, but Matt 6:8 belies that saying, "your Father knoweth what things you have need of..."
If we examine closely, we find that there are many areas in modern Christianity, including Mormons, where we seem to do the exact opposite of what scripture calls for.
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Ellen, I am unfamiliar with the book of Nicodemus. Can you tell me how it influenced the New Testament view of Chist?
I have to go cook at the church, so I hope this quick answer is OK. If I have the right book, it forms the Muslim view of what happened to Jesus Christ. They say that the mob was deceived by God to believe that Judas was Jesus and they crucified Judas, and Jesus was taken up. It is a short book but it has been years since I last saw it. Hope this helps. We can talk more later if you like.
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I can understand your doubt when you were a Muslim (where Islam rejects the Christian view
of his Sonship because they think it means in a literal procreative way). But did these same
doubts exist in your mind when you were a Christian in the non-Mormon Church all those
years?
What about Christ's Sonship do you have difficulty accepting?
Thanks,
Jim
I think that the actions of a person or group speak more loudly than what they say. On the Jesus Christ issue, the Fundamentalist Evangelicals I experienced were very experience oriented. The thrill of speaking in tongues, the elation at singing a good song, the testimonies were all that seemed to matter. Their faith seemed centered on their blessings. The moment something bad happened, it was satan attacking and not the consequences of some unwise action. And when they got their revelations about me, why the Christian game was over, despite what Paul or anyone else had to say.
Things were not wonderful for me in Islam either and the Muslims have the "Book of Barnabas" (I think) that is the basis of the Muslim view on Jesus. It seems ludicrous to me that we would fail to canonize that book also but permit the "Book of Nicodemus" as part of the basis for the NT view of Jesus Christ. We say the church went apostate and then use an apostate church to form our opinion of Jesus Christ.
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So accoding to the traditional doctrine of the trinity, God is one being that manifests himself as three persons. The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God. However not three Gods but one God. The roles never cross.
Most fundamental Christians believe that the resurrection is literal, and that Christ has a body of flesh and bone. They also believe that God (the Father) is spirit. If Christ is the Father then God has a body and is not only spirit. Or Christ must lay down his body when acting as the Father, which scripture says cannot happen because that would be death.
Is it just me, or is the LDS doctrine of the Godhead the only one that makes sense? I get confused hearing other faiths talk about the Godhead.
If we realize and fully accept that inequalities can easily exist, then it is easy to see God, Jesus the Christ and the Holy Spirit as three entities, and we can see that they are united in the singularity of their purpose. The idea and subsequent dogma of the Trinity did not emerge until the 4th century, and it has always seemed ludicrous to me that we would take part of our doctrine from an apostate and hopelessly lost group of old men.
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I have a natural disinclination to to appreciate prayers that are memorized; it is foreign to my experience growing up. However, I have come to appreciate the meditative process of some forms of memorized prayer. Given that its practice is novel for we who have grown up without any familiarity with it, I must admit that for those who do experience it when young there is benefit.
Having said this I would also so that those churches that do use these prayers also encourage the prayer of the heart, which is seen as the ultimate form of prayer. This line of thinking also corresponds with our teachings. However, I remain open to there being a time and place for all things that lead us to our Father in Heaven.
I have visited many mosques while living in the Middle East and the prayer among Muslims is really quite remarkable and spiritual. These also are set prayers done in unison. Of course, it would drive our poor sisters who seek the priesthood nuts because men and women are separated completely. That equality thing would get in the way, but I digress.
For me the bending, the sitting on my knees and finally the prostration changes my attitude. At my age, it is difficult and painful to do this any more and I only do it once in a while. I am completely sure that the name of God, Yah-weh, Heavenly Father, Allah subhanna wa alla ta allah, or what ever we choose to call him is to be completely adored and utterly respected. In the quiet times, it becomes clear to me that it is less important how comfortable we are in this life, than our acceptance by God in the next.
However, I have seen increasing but casual evidence that such prostrate prayer may lead to throat Cancer.
These days I avoid people who say their way is the best way to worship God.
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If we are guest in their home or church, I haven't a problem listening or participating out of brotherly love; if we've asked them to pray in ours, I haven't a problem saying "Amen" to their prayer, also out of brotherly love. Personally, I wouldn't adopt the practice though it could be said we sometimes lapse into our own rote-type prayers.
It is relatively easy to investigate the substance of Islamic Prayer on You Tube. There are five of them each day; Fajr, Dhuhr, Asr, Maghrib, and Isha. There are positions for each part of each prayer. Parts of these prayers are repetitious, though in none of them is satan asked for help, nor are baby sacrifices mentioned. For the elderly and otherwise infirm, one can simply sit in a chair to do them. In my mind, these prayers are the most humble I have ever seen.
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How strange... from the background info you have posted, I thought your "roots" were in Christianity, and it was not until a number of years ago that you embraced Islam... therefore wouldn't your "roots" actually be Christian vs Islamic...
Christ sets the tone for our prayers when he says to pray like this: Our father which art in Heaven...
Also the scriptures tell us that we should not pray in "rote" but from our hearts...
GG
Well, you are right, I miss used the term, "roots", though I recently found out that Imam Sahab Webb is my Cousin, though I also have "Webb" relatives from the 1860's who were Mormon. What a funny, funny world we live in.
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I acknowledge that this topic has been addressed on multiple occasions, but the topic is one that has an infinite importance to disciples of Christ. On another thread there was a question on kneeling in the temple. How we pray as a group comes with standards and commonalities. When things don't follow the norm that our raise our heads...or not.
I had a young bishop I served with and at times he would, in the middle of a prayer, begin to address Jesus directly. After he did this several times and at an appropriate time in private conversation I asked him about it. At first, he seemed unaware of it and upon reflection he was perplexed that I asked about it. He was relatively new in the Church and a few decades younger than I was. I simply responded to him that "we" don't do that. We pray directly to the Father in the name of the Son.
Since that time I think my concept of prayer has widened. I have always had Catholic friends and they seem to find comfort with praying the "Our Father". My cousins are Protestants and they also like set, memorized prayers especially for meals.
I have read several books over the years on Easter Orthodoxy and Eastern mysticism. One book that I found excellent was "The Way of a Pilgrim" a Russian book about a mendicant monk/pilgrim that was committed to learn ceaseless, inner prayer through use of the Jesus Prayer.
I am curious how others think and feel about these other forms of prayer practiced by our other Christian brothers and sisters in the world. Is there a place for these prayers in the lives of Latter-day Saints?
I have been examining the so called Lord's Prayer, or more precisely Matt 6.
It seems we are to pray privately. According to the context of the chapter, we are not to ask for anything, because "God already knows our needs". We always end prayers with "in the name of Jesus Christ", and scripturally, I have no idea where that came from.
I am also questioning the idea of Jesus being the Son of God, though he does make several statements about that in the Gospels.
Twice in that chapter it talks about us forgiving our debtors, though it does not look like this forgiveness excuses us for any consequences for offenses. These days, my Islamic roots seem much more important to me.
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I frequently hear people say it is a slam dunk that Jesus used alcoholic wine in the New Testament. The arguments are usually that wine could not be preserved as grape juice and thus during Passover they had to be using an alcoholic wine at the Last Supper and that Jesus turned water into wine at the wedding at Cana.
Both of these things are in fact incorrect. The ancients did have a way of preserving grapes so they could have been squeezed as non-alcoholic grape juice at the Last Supper. It is also possible that when the New Testament speaks of Jesus creating new wine for the wedding that it could have been non-alcoholic since the Greek word for wine could have been used for both. The argument I have encountered against this is that the apostles were accused of being drunk with new wine at Pentecost so new wine had to be alcoholic. I have read an article stating the word used in the Acts of the Apostles is a word generally used for grape juice. The Apostles were being mocked sarcastically for being drunk on new wine just as if someone was saying in our modern terms they were drunk on soda.
I have been in arguments with some of my fellow Catholics who are defending the use of alcohol "in moderation". The trouble with defending the use of alcohol in moderation is that it is too easy to go from moderation to alcoholism. What some people see as moderate drinking is enough to cause real trouble with an automobile. I have been increasingly disturbed by the use of alcohol I see among Catholics even to promoting church festivals by advertising that beer and wine would be available for purchase.
Anyway a couple of links from an interesting book by a Seventh Day Adventist writer:
On the preservation of grape juice in ancient times: http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/3.html
Wine in the apostolic church: http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/5.html
People often mold reality to blend with their own. If you think about the situation a bit, probably one of the reasons that Pigs were unclean is the stuff their digestive systems get going by eating their own and other animal droppings. I have heard the term mulled wine many times and if you look at the wiki on the subject, to me it is clear that there was wine used. However mixing it with water and other spices was likely to kill the Giardia or other bugs in the water they mixed with it. After all that, the alcoholic content would be debatable.
Those who say it was water or grape juice, sigh ... At my age, I don't listen to that any more, I have enough idiots in my life.
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I forgot Gwen's last name.
Gwen Boucher
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I just found this article online, which may be informative...hope it helps a little...definitely hope it doesn't hurt anyone! It's my prayer that the power of God could be seen in this situation...somehow! It's a puzzling situation for me...this being my first time every hearing of a real case scenario...thinking that God has a perfectly good reason for everything, and works all things out for good to those who love Him...this has made me ponder things I've never thought about before! I thank you, Gwen/Ellen for sharing this deeply personal matter. I wouldn't have contemplated it so hard, or tried to understand it otherwise.
Question: "What does the Bible say about hermaphrodites?"
Answer:Babies that are born with both male and female sexual organs, or characteristics of both organs, are called hermaphrodites or intersex. A child who is in an intersexual state is classified in one of three categories: 1) true hermaphrodite – an infant born with both ovaries and testicles and has both male and female sex organs. 2) female pseudohermaphrodite – a genetic female with male external sex organs. 3) male pseudohermaphrodite – a genetic male with external sex organs that fail to develop properly, resulting in female or male/female physical characteristics.
In times past, doctors would perform surgeries without first testing the infant to find out its true sex, and the child would sometimes grow up very obviously a man, with female genitalia. Now, specialists can perform an ultrasound, blood test, chromosome analysis, and even do exploratory surgery to find out the baby's true sex. The treatment is still controversial, however.
Some believe that surgery and/or hormonal therapy should begin within the first 15 months of life, and others believe these things should be put off until the child is old enough to make his or her own decision about it. There are pros and cons for each side. Either way, any family with an intersexual infant should begin counseling, as should the child when he or she is old enough.
When babies are developing in the womb, they all begin with sex organs that look female. If the baby is male, he begins to produce testosterone, and if the hormone reaches the tissues correctly, the external genitals become a scrotum and penis. Chromosomal or sex hormone abnormalities can produce an infant in an intersexual state. It can also be caused by a condition called congenital adrenal hyperplasia, which is a disease the blocks the baby's metabolism. It is not as uncommon as we might think; about 1 in every 2,000 newborns is born in an intersexual state.
Babies are not born with physical disorders to punish their parents in any way. Although God created the earth perfectly, it soon brought destruction upon itself with the onset of human sin (Romans 5:12). Before the Flood in Genesis chapter 7 that wiped out almost all living things on the earth, people had the potential to live for several hundred years.
After the Flood, human life spans grew progressively shorter, indicating a change in the environment which resulted in damage to the human genetic structure. This also explains why incest was necessary for the population of the earth in Genesis, but was forbidden later in the laws of Leviticus (18:6-18). Now, thousands of years later as sin continues to permeate the world, the human race has been bombarded with every kind of sickness, disease, disorder and birth defect we can imagine.
It is very possible for a child born with both sex organs to grow up to have a healthy view of sexuality and successful relationships. From early on, the child should be taught how valuable, loved and accepted he is by his family and also by God. He or she is not a victim of divine judgment, but God has a plan for each one of us that will bring Him glory, as we can learn from a man who was healed by Jesus Christ:
“'Teacher,' his disciples asked him, 'why was this man born blind? Was it a result of his own sins or those of his parents?' 'It was not because of his sins or his parents' sins,' Jesus answered. 'He was born blind so the power of God could be seen in him'” (John 9:2-3).
Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/hermaphrodites.html#ixzz2wAXcbaE4
Just now saw this. Wow, and thank you.
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it will not be better everwho would want to 'get nasty' towards you for these things you are going through? certainly not me. we are all in the same boat trying to get back to our Father & we all have difficulties. it looks like you are on the right path.
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who would want to 'get nasty' towards you for these things you are going through? certainly not me. we are all in the same boat trying to get back to our Father & we all have difficulties. it looks like you are on the right path.
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I’M Not A Mormon
in Social Hall
Posted
I won't call myself a Bible scholar. I do a lot of reading and I simply do not want to risk a charge of heresy. I have found, readily available in books written between the 1st and 3rd century that tell two different stories about Jesus' fate. I believe, by chance they favored one story over the other without perhaps good cause. For me, this does not change the value of his actions, however. We are steeped in programing that originated with Constantine and the council of Nicea.
Considering the record of the early church, and the Judaizers, and those who later caused Celibacy, Transubstantiation, and so many other dubious practices, I am not as closed minded as I once was. Admittedly I am so paranoid that if the authorities were doing their job I would be in a lock up. Let me hasten to say that I have seen enough violence and death that I would never unleash that on any one. People like me have a dozen locks on their doors ... maybe that will come later.
I still think that Mormons are awful nice people, but the rest of it, I am not going to waste the key strokes on. I think that very soon I am going to Wales for 3 months. It will give me a chance to think