EllenMaksoud
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Posts posted by EllenMaksoud
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Okay, I am lost again. What is a ‘meetinghouse’? And does LDS do any church or community involvements beyond Sundays? ( sorry ) I looked at my local ward and tried to contact others, but haven't gotten anywhere. Well, lost agaiin, but that is me daily so...
It depends, it all depends. In my Ward in Portland, Oregon, we do everything on Sunday, um mostly. You can go meet the Bish on Wednesday, and the young women meet then too.
Still there are Wards who split it all up into three weekly meetings. A Missionary from the UK told me his was that way. One I attended while I was in town on business in Indianapolis did it in three weekly meetings. So, the best way to find out is to go to the church when it is open on Sunday. You can get a lot of information about this on LDS.org. Otherwise, it depends.
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Rachel Lu is a writer at the Federalist and Crisis magazine who I really enjoy. Here is her take on Kate Kelly:
http://www.crisismagazine.com/2014/mormanism-theological-dissent
I was not sympathetic toward Kate Kelly. There are rules in the church and she defiantly broke them.
Therefore, I was greatly surprised at how many Mormons are sympathetic to her views. This is a much larger issue than many think. These same people have some very valid points, and despite what I or anyone else think, either women will have the Priesthood, or it will be redefined to recognize more fully the contribution of women.
At least some of it is a generational issue, and as leadership is replaced, owing to death, things will change. I think that we all know of things in the church that we view as injustices, and hope that eventually wrongs will be righted.
But in face of a foundational scripture like Genesis 3:16, my path is clear. "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." So, for me, there is no path open but obedience as long as the men who lead me act like men and not abusers. To the abusers, I am your worst nightmare. Even being unmarried does not totally relieve me of the need to be obedient to the leaders over me.
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I still believe in the Bible stories, but I am curious if we are descendants of Noah and the flood, where did Asians comes from, blacks, Hispanics, etc. How did we develop so many different races and nationalities? This has been used as a reason why some people don't believe in the Bible. I even had a friend ask me this same question and I didn't have the answer.
The same goes for Neanderthals who once lived on the earth. Did they live before Adam and Eve?
According to the founder of a certain faith, Earth is a prison planet and the different races here were criminals and dissenters from other worlds. Australia was a prison colony at first. America is where the English put the dissenters.
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I think this topic is appropriate for general discussion because the focus is on the Gospel and not the politics. This topic is about how the relation of Gospel teachings and discrimination.
Yesterday I heard a discussion about State wide non-discrimination law for the State of Utah. The person I heard was from the Sutherland institute, he made claims that "religious exemptions" should be included and also made the ill-informed and false claim that non-discrimination against gender identity or sexual orientation favored a small class of people.
In looking into the matter, I came across an article from 2013 about a non-discrimination bill in Utah (SB262) that failed. The LDS Church did not take a position on it; yet the Church took a position and officially endorsed the non-discrimination law in Salt Lake City.
The Church provided a statement for not supporting SB262:
“The Church did not take a position on the current bill, but is on the record supporting non-discrimination protections for gay and lesbian citizens related to housing and employment,” the statement said. “We believe any legislation should protect these rights while also preserving the rights of religious conscience — to act in accordance with deeply held religious beliefs — for individuals and organizations.”
I have to wonder, do we LDS have "deeply held religious beliefs" e.g. Official teachings or Doctrine, that direct us not to provide housing to persons whose lifestyle is not in accordance with the Gospel? And this is why I bring up Matthew 25:
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Is there a difference with to "take in" a stranger (to include a homosexual), than renting or selling to stranger (to include a homosexual) who needs housing?
In the minds of some people, I would be in the group that should be excluded. However the church has been uncommonly kind to me in several states. I think the issue you face can be remedied by making sure that "Your" actions comply with the wishes of God. You can't do anything about the actions of others.
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Hi all,
I posted a while back about struggling with my 16 year-old son. I had discovered that he had been involved in smoking pot. Things came to a head when I found evidence and confronted him. He finally admitted to everything, agreed to talk to the bishop and seemed to be back in course.
Last night, I found some videos on his phone of friends smoking. I confronted my son about it and asked him if he had anything to tell me - seeing as everytime I asked how it was going with his sobriety, he said he was doing well. He finally said "well if we are being honest, I smoked at least one time since then, and I don't think it is a big deal to smoke it." I am ashamed to admit that I yelled at him and told him that I was more angry about his deciet and attitude than having a pot relapse once or twice. I quickly calmed myself and apologized for loosing my cool, let him know I loved him no matter what and we continued. I told him I was hurt and dissapointed and asked why he did not see a problem with pot. He said that he has his own boundaries and does not need anyone elses including the church.
That led to a discussion where he outright said that he has no testimony and no desire to have one and is just biding his time until he is 18 and anything goes. We talked around many aspects of the gospel and the most he would concede is that he feels there is a God but that is all - not even the divinity of Christ or the imprtance of commandments. I told him his intergrity was important and that he needs to come clean to the bishop and, while we expect him to join us at church while a minor under our roof, we also expect him to not continue to bless and administer the sacrament as he has been doing.
He shed some tears when he talked about his friends that were a good influence on him (he has some good ones, and some less desireables) and said that he feels good around them. I ended by hugging him and assuring him I love him and that we will work togehter this year towards whatever may come. But, frankly - I am devestated and exhauseted and fearful. I don't know how to go forward proactively with a child who is 17 and shows no sign of opening his heart. He is a very good person with a good heart, yet I feel like a failure as a father and am having a hard time seeing past this and trusting that all will be well. His mother and I divorced 5 years ago due to infidelity on her part and she married that man so he is not my son's step dad (butI have custody) - they both have sent him a strong message that the curch is "controlling" and that God does not expect anytihng of us because he loves us - and my son has bought into this. He has so many immediate family influences that are apposed to religion and the gospel.
Whew... thanks for reading this far if you have and for letting me vent here. I have really valued all of the support and advice I have recieved on this board dating way back to when my own parents and siblings left the church and this board and the FAIR articles helped me navicate that devistation. I am gratful for this resource and community.
Cheers,
MP
I don't know a lot about Mormon parents culture, whether it is more Calvinistic or Armenian. You mustn't blame yourself. He is 16 you know and will be experimenting and exploring from now on. Hopefully, his parents guidance will not be entirely forgotten. If you are all not regular attenders and involved in church activities he will have missed certain things.
My own son spent a year being drunk after he left home, and my oldest daughter had young adult onset of BPD. Who is to blame for that, and what is the remedy? I can tell you that a bucket full of tears won't solve it. Pray for him that God will watch over him.
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Images of the survey from the Church regarding the activity around Ordain Women.
http://mormonstories.org/how-the-lds-church-does-marketing-research-around-progressive-issues/
It seems that the OW group is having some amount of impact and/or someone is paying attention.
I live in a Ward in weird Portland. Out of around 75 people attending every Sunday, I would say that there are around 12 openly critical of women's role in the church. I do not know how many women are critical but are not vocal about it. Frankly, I am a Genesis 3:16 woman and if the man is Godly and good, I'm good. If he acts like a power hungry jerk, I am his worst nightmare.
I am not familiar with the historical details of the church, but apparently when Joseph Smith was alive, women did many things, with his blessings, that are now restricted to men. This is not without presidence in other religions, and cultures where women periodically gain and lose power.
The woman I was speaking with last night is deeply critical of church leadership, and feels that no man can take away or give women that which God already gave us, and I am in her camp, but peaceably so.
The church likes to cultivate the image of a monolithic church, but I think it is deeply divided and this matter of the priesthood will be settled in the next 5 to 10 years, as will this ridiculous business with SSM.
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I know this subject has been address before, but I am revisiting it because someone in my personal life and all that they have created.
I have an older brother. We are not actually related. I was adopted into his family at a young age so I share no biological connection to him. He has major strange disturbing issues and behaviors that easily cause tons of problems for himself and others. My adopted mom and her kids all have banged their heads mad trying to get through to him and help him. Nothing has ever worked and now, no wants anything to do with him. He seems to be just plain old evil in his personality and behaviors. He seems to enjoy hurting people emotionally and causing them tons of stress, yet he has made is life out to be very dependent on these same people he messes with. He is unable to work or be healthy around people. Legally, he has nor done anything that the law allows anyone to step in and take corrective actions. The law is very limited and confining.
My question is this... Is he mentally ill needing care the law does not allow to be placed on him without him agreeing to it or is he just plain old evil and needs to be let go?
I suffer from depression, PTSD and a number of other issues, so know something about this. The use of the word evil in reference to another person makes me nervous because it can be used to just write someone off and not help them and I think there are relatively few really evil people in the world.
Maybe is is as simple as the parents not allowing him to experience the consequences of his own actions? Maybe some firm love needs to be applied? However, perhaps you are not the one to do it. Perhaps you do not need to be involved in his stuff enough to let it hurt you? You are the kid, not the parent.
It sounds to me like you are living at home in the middle of all this drama. We adopted a young child one time, but he was so mean and disruptive that he did not last in our house. How old are you? Maybe you will just have to suck it up and try to survive? Are you Mormon? Are your parents active Mormons? I know it is hard to share this sort of thing outside the home. Does he act out at church?
At least perhaps you get three squares and a flop and if you can not help him, perhaps you can isolate yourself from him and last long enough to grow up and leave?
I ran away to escape the drunkenness and beatings, and the police blamed me, and what happened after that was worse than the what I faced before. In the end, I went back and face illegal confinement for the next two years.
My heart goes out to you. If you wish to talk more, PM me.
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I feel like the biggest fool. Here I am, 51 years old. I am a managing attorney. I was an officer in the Army. I am used to making decisions and sticking with them. I do not waffle. Yet, here I am. I am pulled so much to the LDS Church, but so many issues keep me away. I love the present LDS Church, but have many issues with the past. I love what appears to be current doctrines (or most of them), but have problems with older doctrines (or what they appear to be).
All I want to do is be where God wants me. Some days it almost seems like it is tearing me apart.
Not sure why I posted this. I expect folks will mock me, but there it is
I know just lots of Mormons that engage the church to the limit of their comfort and stop. You do not have to buy into the whole thing and why should you. We are all humans and though we believe that the church is guided by the Prophet who is guided by God, I am sure that he would say that he makes mistakes.
You could do worse than joining the Mormon Church. And, even if you do not stay with it, you will learn much. Have you started seeing Missionaries yet? That will take some time, and answer your questions. And when you are Bapized, something "Old Testament" could happen to you like it did me.
If you are a heterosexual male or female, it will be much easier for you. For those who are not, there is still a path, though it if fraught with difficulties.
Give it a try.
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This hits so close to home I can't stop crying.
It is greatly heartening to me that I see so many gentle thoughtful comments about the event on this page. Other pages have such mean spirited comments. It is so sad. Thank you all.
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I was talking to the elders and sisters yestarday and they were saying there is a new program that says that if you are having too many emotional problems (but not too serious to warrant getting sent home) you can go home for a couple of months and then come back out. Has anyone heard of this being done elsewhere? This mission seems to be putting this in practice as in the last 6 weeks 7 or 8 went home, how many will come back I have no idea
It is not surprising. With the reduction of age, there is a large influx of those who are less mature into the field. Before, those who stuck it out and eventually went on a mission were by definition more mature, and committed. I don't see a thing wrong with these youngsters taking a break.
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My twin sister has been a lesbian for 23 years. In that time she has been in more realtionships than I can count. I have ALWAYS been there for her. She knows where I stand religiously and feels the need to push her Anti-Mormon views into most every conversation. When she ends each relationship, I have always been there to help her pick up the pieces. I am tired of the constant emotional drama that "being there for her" brings to me and my family. She is never there for me when I need it. She is always just too busy. I know what I have been taught. Seventy times Seven, and all that, but I really feel like a doormat. She has just started a new relationship and wants me to drop everything we are doing to go meet her. I am tired! I feel like I cannot go through all this again. If I ever say no, all heck breaks loose and all the Anti Mormon rants are horrible.
I just recently began to exclude people from my life that hurt me. This includes my son, and several other authors that are extremely disrespectful of my own religious views. I have drawn back from the church also until I get more peace about what to do. Stupidly, it took me two recent trips to a place where I was locked in to finally realize that I do have the freedom and responsibility to not be beat up. To do anything else is fundamentally Masochistic.
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I'm aware that this poster has a rather substantial following that includes some Church members.
While this is not the first time I have found her remarks unpalatable, it is the first occasion I've noticed when she has given direct, point-by-point criticism of a public address given by a member of the Quorum of the Twelve (there may have been other occasions; I don't follow her blog closely enough to know).
While acknowledging that she has every right to express and seek to persuade others to her views on this matter, I will say that if a writer came out in such direct and public opposition to a speech given by a member of the Twelve in his capacity as an apostle of Jesus Christ, it would more than give me pause, even if I liked and generally agreed with the writer.
The subject -- or shall I say the target? -- of her blog post is an Aug. 14 BYU Summer Commencement address reported here by my colleague Marianne Holman.
Objecting to Elder Nelson's casting of defending marriage within the context of discipleship, Riess wrote:
I suppose that here, as is so often the case, definitions make a great deal of difference.
To be a disciple of Christ means, of course, to follow Him. As taught in the Church of Jesus Christ, that entails receiving and striving to live by His word as imparted through His authorized servants in scripture, both ancient and modern, and through the inspired teachings and warnings of His servants who live today.
This holds true with regard to current affairs as much as anything else.
And it won't do to rationalize that Elder Nelson is merely going off on his own political opinions, as his words reflect what always has been consistently and unanimously taught by the apostles and prophets and, as noted above, has not changed nor will it change, despite current social and political pressure.
By implication, this unjustly accuses the Elder Nelson and his colleagues of not being compassionate. On the contrary, amidst the upheaval in recent times, the Brethren have been as compassionate as they could reasonably be expected to be while maintaining the boundaries of the Lord's laws and commandments and being true to their calling as watchmen on the tower. Among other things, the Church website on same-sex attraction abundantly demonstrates that compassion.
Here is an instance of equivocation. As Riess well knows, neither Elder Nelson nor the Church of Jesus Christ nor God recognize any form of same-gender sexual relationship as a marriage. As noted in the quote above, marriage was created by God and it cannot be redefined or altered by legislative edict or judicial fiat.
As much as it might make some people uncomfortable, it is the responsibility of apostles and prophets to teach, warn and admonish. Heaven help us if they ever cease to do that.
The sneering tone here is obnoxious.
Again, on this matter the prophets and apostles have been as compassionate as they can be under the circumstances.
See Elder Nelson quote above. Mortals cannot rightly alter what God has created.
Blessedly, it is not Jana Riess's church to alter as she desires. The Church belongs to Him Whose name it bears.
I'm disposed to repeat what I've said on this board before: Faced with the choice, I'll cast my lot with the prophets and apostles.
Jana Riess is not a Mormon, so why is she taken seriously? In spite of the fact that the church is rather stupid in assessing who I am, and see it as a great injustice, I still support almost everything in the church. I stay out of the SSM issue because I do not know how to resolve it. I am neither married nor is it likely that I will get married.
It is clear that she should not join the church as she can not support the doctrines.
And though I support the church, it is too painful to hear about certain issues all the time, so I left to either return to Islam or study Buddhisim
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Thank you. Had a long discussion with another woman this afternoon and have decided that the important thing is to hang onto Heavenly Father and his will for me. The rest, though painful does not compare with the cross. The most important issue is: can I do what Heavenly Father wants me to do? The answer is yes.
Ellen you have been asked repeatedly to stop hijacking threads. I have hidden multiple personal off-topic posts. If this continues, our only recourse will be to ban you.
No, let's be truthful here. This is the FIRST time anyone has said anything to me about hijacking threads. It is clear that you have been intending to ban me for a while, but needed time to trump something up. Ban me !
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I'm still stumped as to how you have God show you the way to the church but you're not sticking around. And I get absolutely nothing but stick around. Where is my sign?
Each thing we encounter in life is colored by our past experiences. Some may see it as prayerfully deliberating. Others may see it as more abuse. You would have had to been there.
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I realize that church membership is only like 15 million out of 7 billion but if you are a member of the Church would your life be any different if you didn't have your Patriarchal blessing? I don't get why we are assigned Tribes and if one tribe is different then any other. I know a guy who is from the Tribe of Dan and he's a great guy and stuff but he's no better nor worse then anyone else, I don't see the distinction of being Ephraim as opposed to some other tribe. Honestly me knowing what tribe I come from doesn't do anything for me, I don't have visions and extra blessings that others don't seem to have.What is the added advantage of all this?
I don't have a Patriarchal Blessing, and yes it has affected my commitment to the church. On the one hand, I can not ignore what happened to me in Kirtland and on Baptism. They were such life changing events. On the other hand, feeling very stiffed on a couple issues makes me realize it is an invitation only party. God brought me to the church for his purpose and it is obvious that he did that. That some things would be withheld ... Yeah, what ever.
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So do you think each world has it's own tempter/Satan or does Lucifer just go from world to world and that's his eternal job for each of Gods earths? I believe that each has it's own. Here's why.
--W/out quoting the temple there are some hints in there that Satan is not the only one up to no good!
--Question: A third of what? We know that a third of the hosts of heaven left and followed Lucifer. Ok...up to what point in time? God is always going to be creating worlds from now through eternity. So eventually all of the 2/3rds that were left in that war in heaven will have come to this earth or another one and will have moved on to resurrection. Then what? Will God's future spirits have another war in heaven? Or will he just say...."Well you can follow my proven plan or you can follow that idiot that rebelled a long time ago but who isn't here now to influence you one way or the other".
--Nah...I don't think so. I think God creates billions of spirits for one particular earth. He teaches them the plan of salvation and then WHEN and only WHEN one of them decides to rise up and become a devil, that's what triggers the creation of a new world and now the system is in place and can move forward. Maybe statistically it always happens sooner or later.
--Paradoxes....Satan still has agency. What if he just decided to stop being Satan? Not tempt anyone anymore. Not provide any opposition. Wouldn't that in and of itself thwart the plan? Of course to pull that off he'd have to convince all of the other devils to do the same thing. Maybe he won't ever do that though because the only little bit of pleasure he gets out of life is to cause pain in others (which is just what God needs for the opposition so it all works). Or...if he knows that this is his only chance to cause havoc and that he won't be moving onto another world that creates a sense of urgency to cause as much destruction as possible. It's now or never. That would ensure that he won't give up and quit. He's taking down as many as he can in the short time he has.
--Makes you wonder what Satan was thinking. Did he really believe he could take down God? Did he know what other Satan's had done before him and that they failed? Maybe he full well did know and just didn't care. His pride was so bad that he'd rather lose it all in as big of a fashion as possible VS humbling himself and doing what God wanted. He obviously was a very good salesman and had a lot of followers. That in and of itself must provide him with some pleasure, feelings of success, etc. He didn't want to give that up to conform to the system.
Who the heck knows. Brother Brigham seems to think that each earth has it's own though...
JD 14:70--He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Is it so on any other earth? On every earth. How many earths are there? I observed this morning that you may take the particles of matter composing this earth, and if they could be enumerated they would only be a beginning to the number of the creations of God; and they are continually coming into existence, and undergoing changes and passing through the same experience that we are passing through. Sin is upon every earth that ever was created, and if it was not so, I would like some philosophers to let us know how people can be exalted to become sons of God, and enjoy a fullness of glory with the Redeemer. Consequently every earth has its redeemer, and every earth has its tempter; and every earth, and the people thereof, in their turn and time, receive all that we receive, and pass through all the ordeals that we are passing through.
Go to the Bible and look at the accounts of the war in Heaven. I believe it says that 1/3 of the Angels fell in that time. There may be only one Lucifer but he has his minions. I don't think about these characters because I also believe that they can do nothing to me lest Heavenly Father allow it for my testing and instruction. ( Rev 12:7, Isaiah 14, Luke 10:18, Rev 9:1, Hebrews 12:22)
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This is part of Dr. Peterson's specialty. You may be interested in looking up some of his efforts in this.
I have read some of his work. He understands better than many people I know. Living both as Christian and later as Muslim and finally as Mormon has given me much to reconcile, and it has been most rewarding. It is now clear that only people who have not had the experience insist that there can only be one belief.
Yesterday, I listened to a video on Youtube, "Draw My Life by Amenakin". She is the sort of Muslim woman I wish to be, though the age difference can not be resolved in this life. In this video, quite a charming one, she mentions having "fallen in love with God". When she said that, it resonated quite strongly with me because that is what I have always tried to do.
Where shall I go? What shall I do? I don't know because there is no one in flesh and bone to guide me. I do not mean God, but someone who can touch me physically and we can share our lives together. So many women I know are in the same situation. There must be a purpose in this.
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I'm confused. You no longer consider yourself Mormon, but are now Muslim. Why would you be waiting for first presidency approval?
I'm not optimistic that the GA's will approve this, but there are those who insist they will. It is not a question of suddenly not believing in the church, just that they will want me. I never actually stopped being Muslim and often wear my Hijab, still attend Muslim events, and have Muslim friends. And, with all the study I have done it is not much of a reach to practice both should it come to that. I didn't stop being Muslim partially because I did not trust the Mormons.
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Good evening.
I have recently been invited to a Church of Jesus Christ by a person I used to work with.
I'm in the process of trying to find a church where I feel comfortable.
Can someone please help me?
Maybe with some background, service informations (customs/whatnot.)
What the church believes.
Attire.
Anything? I don't want to look like a complete idiot!
Thanks in advance!
Relax. The first time I entered a Mormon church I was Muslim and wore Abaya and Hijab (Head Scarf). No one said a thing.
Then later, two elders asked me to help them with a practical joke. We went out to the Portland Visitor's Center. They were going to interpret for me and I wore complete Niqab with Abaya. Only eyes showed. We walked in there and for several minutes I pretended not to speak English and the Elders pretended to um translate. We had not foreseen that the Mission President would be there, and when he walked into the room I was so shocked that I started giggling, spoiling the whole prank. I did not get in trouble but we did agree that I would not do that again.
Oh, if you are woman, then no pants.
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This is making the media wonks' heads explode today:
A new comprehensive study by the CDC with over 33,000 participants has confirmed earlier estimates; less than 3 percent of the U.S. population self-identifies as gay, lesbian or bisexual. Earlier, much smaller-scale surveys have put that number at 4 percent.
The National Health Interview Survey (NHIS), published July 15 by the CDC, was the first large-scale study of it’s kind. Data was collected from the Census Bureau, as The Washington Post reported, and 33,557 adults between the ages of 18 and 64 participated in the study, which included in-person interviews as well as follow-up phone questions.
The NHIS study found that, while 96.6 percent of adults identified as “straight”, 1.6 percent identified as gay or lesbian, and 0.7 percent called themselves bisexual. 1.1 percent responded “I don’t know” or said they were “something else” not listed.
That sure doesn’t sound like society according to Hollywood, or the news media, which have young Americans convinced 30 percent of the population is gay.
We've known for years that the 10% figure touted for so very long was, at best, wishful thinking. Prior studies that at least pretended to scientific rigor put the number at anywhere from 1-3%. 1.6% seems about right, and I've yet to see any serious challenge to the CDC numbers.
What I have seen is headlines inflating the homosexuality numbers up to 2.3% . . . once again the media fudges by including those who self-identify as bisexual among homosexuals because it suits their purposes to have a much larger number than is justified by the data.
The most interesting and troubling aspect of this is the propaganda-induced delusion endemic in, especially, youth, that the 30% figure is somehow justified.
I had heard that homosexuality was around 10%, and considering our hedonistic culture, perhaps those who experiment and move on could total up to 30%. I seriously doubt the 1.6% figure is doubtful. I am not sure why we would give the CDC number more credence than other organizations.
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The "Africa bit" is actually the most important part of the article. Just as the church holds meetings in Qatar on Fridays (Jerusalem on Saturdays). the accommodation in Hong Kong is to meet an extraordinary circumstance. But in countries where husband and wife raising a family as equal partners goes against the entrenched culture, the gospel message on family and gender roles is truly revolutionary.
Just wait until the gospel is preached in the Muslim world. Gonna be some fireworks there!
Maybe no fireworks. I am tutoring a Saudi man in English right now, and he is telling me that in the last 5 years, the culture is moderating significantly. The absolute rule that woman must wear Niqab has eased and in some places, women do not even wear Hijab. In 10 years maximum, we will see Christianity openly discussed in Saudi Arabia. I speak to him as a Muslim woman who has been Evangelical and Mormon, and he surprises me when he says I should not give up all Mormon thought.
We had a lengthy discussion about Allah SWT, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Muhammad PBUH, the angels, and other Prophets two weeks ago, and it is amazing to me how close Mormon thought is to Islam. And, were I to remain Mormon, I would want it to remain somewhat patriarchal as Islam is. I have no issue with men being in charge in the church but do not wish for men to demean women in word and deed.
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And you think that's how it works? G-d gives His prophets revelations, but only if enough people gripe about the Church and its members, accuse them of contributing to nay causing suicides?
This is a developing situation. Perhaps it should be worded as science gets new revelation? And maybe the future will show that the whole GBLT issue can easily be cured at birth, or not. I can't remember the details but there is a condition that happens with some infants that is easily treated at birth with some drops in the eyes. I remember getting a sugar cube that prevented my getting polio. All these sorts of things when kept in perspective aren't as serious as we think they are.
Remember, they used to moralize about Hansen's Disease.
The pain for me in the Mormon church is my fault. I should never have said a thing, and could have sailed right through membership, and the temple recommend with no questions. And, you will not find my name on any protesters lists. There are enough weird people in the church, I would have fit right in.
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First Presidency approval for exceptions.
Another way of looking at it, as in the case of those born with either ambiguous genitalia, or both where the wrong one is removed, some of us choose to put back what was wrongfully removed. I may not live long enough to see justice done. There is a growing body of evidence that will eventually change policy. It is just a question of time. I am waiting for that First Presidency approval. I have written no resignation letters, or done any lurid YouTube videos.
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Or the priesthood until sometime after 2014 ...
History has a strange way of playing its self out. The most unforeseen things happen.
Interestingly, Muhammad PBUH was the first man in recorded history to put rights for women in writing in "The Constitution of Medina". Now days thanks to the Media, the religion he founded is seen by many as the worst abuser of women. I spent many years in Christian denominations that promoted guilt in women for ruining it for mankind with the Apple incident. And in the penalty phase of the trial to follow, women were further stripped of their rights in Genesis 3:16. Of course modern Mormonism preaches against the idea that the whole debacle was sin. I can't debate that scripture because I know what is in my heart.
So, to me, JS probably just did what he felt God was instructing him to do. I can't speak against polygamy because I come from a culture that openly uses it, and curiously the US government does not prosecute it, but they don't allow Mormons to do it. Abuse is the issue with polygamy for me. If it is all voluntary and there is no abuse or anything forced, what can anyone say? Of course, the issue of inbreeding would likely raise it's head rather soon, and today it could be identified fairly quickly. I think inbreeding is likely a minor issue in the church due to people marrying within the population.
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I Am So Torn
in Social Hall
Posted
I don't believe they will actually hurt you. The present church is very nice. The past is in the past, so leave it there and move on. Sure, the church made some mistakes, or "needed further revelation" (). I wish I could say I never made any mistakes.
The Missionaries met me, taught me, and got me baptized in defiance of all logic. In the interim, they stopped a suicide, convinced Heavenly Father to heal me on so many fronts, and when I was baptized, healed me of life long rage and hatred from extreme abuse and molestation. After Baptisim, it was gone and has stayed gone since January of 2012.
You don't have anything to worry about. You are male and heterosexual, right? You have nothing to worry about. Who knows you might be a Bishop or in the Stake Presidency in a few years.
They have issues with me, though I have done nothing wrong, so I do not have a future like you do. Go forth and conquer!