EllenMaksoud

Well as my Mission President told us when there was a rash of evil spirit activity in the mission (mostly due to upcoming temple I suspect) make sure when you do an exorcism that there is more then one evil spirit in there. Sometimes the first occupant is just evil and casting them out will only kill them if God lets it work.

 

I joke.......

  LOL

Well as my Mission President told us when there was a rash of evil spirit activity in the mission (mostly due to upcoming temple I suspect) make sure when you do an exorcism that there is more then one evil spirit in there. Sometimes the first occupant is just evil and casting them out will only kill them if God lets it work.

 

I joke.......

  LOL

Having been on the board for a couple of years, I like to invite people to share ghost stories in October. I thought I would make it more specific and ask if anyone on the board has had a paranormal experience where they confronted and defeated evil. I ask not to sensationalize, but because for me talking about this is actually an uplifting experience for me.

I could start with a story a coworker told me a while ago. It wasn't too detailed but he said they were visiting a family on his mission. Apparently the son was acting agitated, and all of a sudden his eyes began glowing red. Somehow they were able to calm him down and he was given a blessing. He immediately changed, and said during the blessing he felt something leave his body. That's my story, I'd love to hear some others.

Exorcism was used on me a couple times. I didn't feel a thing.

....and you reap the whirlwind.  This will not be the last we hear of such actions.  I cannot really see anyone being surprised that this tactic.  I have my popcorn and will enjoy the show from Qatar while I listen to my Muslim friends keep asking me to explain what freedom is and how it applies to this kind of effort by the US government and want to know how anything done in the Middle East is different except they think they stand for morality and civil society. 

Well the Muslims I have known are very respectful and protective of me. Some of their cultural ideas are very un-Western. The Shia have a "Temporary Marriage" practice. Some insist that clipped finger nails must be flushed and not thrown in the trash can as the evil Jenn eat them. One insisted that the bathroom door be shut because that is where those Jenn live.

Though I agree with their prohibition of Pork, and the Hijab does a lot to conceal an old woman's age as long as I can resist waddling.

As I read through the many threads here wherein, on one hand, we LDS are defending ourselves as Christians while on the other hand we are defining others, even those claiming to be LDS, as "Anti-Mormon", I get a sense that some of us want it both ways. Why should we be able to claim the right to define ourselves as Christians and at the same time insist that those who do not agree with our personal definition of what constitutes a Mormon are "Anti-Mormon"?

 

I believe that if we insist on the right to includes ourselves as Christians (rightly so IMO) we should also allow our fellow LDS members the right to define themselves as Mormons even though we do not agree with them as to what defines Mormonism. Furthermore I believe the term "Anti-Mormon does not merely apply to anyone who disagrees with someone else personal definition of Mormonism, but should only be used when it is clear that those so labeled are only interested in the total destruction of the LDS Church.

I have sort of seen what you are talking about, and I think it has moderated somewhat in the time that I have been with the Mormons. It is surprising to me that with the number of our children that we send abroad every year, that American mormons do not seem to have broader cultural ideas. Though I have been bapized, I don't know if I "feel" Mormon. International expression of compassion is more important to me. After the ruction with the Temple Recommend, I have moved on rather than be hurt and bitter.

No there will be no angry, blasphemous Anti-Mormon Videos, because Mormons are rather nice people, so I go to church with them. Some of it goes round the bend for me, but since I will never be part of it, it does not matter.

God is the only one I seek approval from, and denominational boundaries just seem foolish to me now. Volunteering at Bishops Warehouse, Tutoring Saudi students in English, Volunteering to build Computers out of scrap parts to give to the poor, and anything else that there is the strength for are more important.

Perhaps some of us try to keep too fine an eye on things. The nerve of Jesus Christ eating with the wicked tax collectors, and the wine bibers  (Just don't start with me on the water/wine thing).

Neither do mine. Most of mine are manuals, press releases, and training material though so I don't expect a lot of waves. No one sits down with a manual and compares it to Shakespeare. They are usually angry about the one thing they need to know that is not in there and it is probably not in there because the engineers did not tell me in time.

I planned to self publish a Feminist Science Fiction Anthology and life has made that slip. To top that off, I'm working through a major genre epiphany shift. There has always been a bit of my belief system in my stories. Now there seems to be less religon in my stories and less rebel rouser too. No more edgy diversity subject matter and now I wonder if what I write will be worth reading?

If you are exalted questions like this are unnecessary. If you want wings you can have them. If you want more dimensions why not create them. If you want a dragon make one. If you want to stare down Leviathan why not?

 

I don't think you need to go to a vault. You just praise God while you are doing whatever else you are doing.

 

 

I do not know about their conclusion here. I took it to mean the Spirit World and not the final kingdoms. I know there are times I have longed for death. Maybe overcoming my fear of death (beyond the animal fear I am sure I would experience if dying or being killed) is not such a good thing.

 

 

I had a conservative friend who I discussed heaven with and shared that I thought there would be no money or jobs in heaven. He looked stymied and then asked, "Then how will we get people to work?" I worry about that kid. It seems he thought the threat of starvation and homelessness was the only reason we are all not idle.

 

Not only will you not be punching a clock but if you need catharsis you can probably call down fire and consume said clock.

 

 

There will be things to do but work....I don't know. Drudgery and repetitive labor will fade away. I will also no longer need approvals from half the company before I publish anything as there will be no error. I think work and play will be united.

 

A mission companion and I developed several games we plan to play that would require godlike power. Hopefully we can work those out.

As to getting approvals, nothing I publish seems to make many waves.

There are 2 billion people in China and about 1.2 billion in India alone and they worship Hinduism and Buddhism or whatever it is Chinese are allowed to worship. Why hasn't Jesus visited these billions of people yet? I know we have missions in Taiwan, Japan, and South Korea, but we're not allowed in China or India which make up about half the world's population. Imagine the numbers of church membership if we can reach there.

Actually, his message did. Thomas the Apostle went to Mylapore, India and now there is a tomb which is said to bear his body.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_the_Apostle. I have not heard that the message got to China or Mongolia. Although, according to PBS, perhaps he did. I have not viewed this link.  http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/china_705/video/video_index.html

I was told I had to come down from the stand and couldn't bless the sacrament one time because I was wearing a white with blue stripes shirt. It had to be white.

I have not heard discussion of this issue in my Ward, and I think that perhaps we permit some leeway on it.

When I first attended Sacrament I was wearing Salwar Kameez ( Long dress with loose leggings), and was told that pants were not permissible. Though, now I have seen women wear pants at times now. I think the church is moving toward recognition what Western culture is a minority culture in the church now.

I'm wondering if heaven is the best feelings that the mind and physical body can experience. I've been thinking about what the best feelings we can feel in this earthly life such as love, a high from a drug, achieving sexual satisfaction, pain going away and feeling relief and I wonder if we'll have these feelings 24/7 in heaven and how good we'll actually feel. I've been told heaven is 10 times greater than anything we can imagine, so I can only imagine how we'll mentally and physically feel while there. What are your thoughts?

Well, lets see. Theoretical Physicists have postulated the existence of 16 dimensions, I wonder if we'll be allowed in there to play? Will there be Dragons? Will I have wings? How about Leviathan? What about, "what is loosed on earth will be loosed in Heaven"?

How much of the day will be in the great vault of Heaven praising God?

We strive for the “ideal” in all things.  Following the counsel of the 13^th Article of Faith teaches us that we should look for the best in all things. It also guides us to expect the best not only in ourselves, but also in others.  When we find that the ideal is consistently confronted with the weaknesses and frailties of humanity we are often confused and bewildered – particularly when it is so easy to judge others whether they are leaders of the Church, its membership, and specifically those outside the Church.  This confrontation with reality causes almost everyone to question and to challenge the status quo of the Church.

 

A significant minority of our people raised LDS in the USA have ceased to attend Church or to worship as LDS?  In many ways our young people and those who have become mired in the unyielding quicksand of doubt no longer find The Church of Jesus Christ as a credible voice of truth.  Does the fault rest on the shoulders of those that question and with the secular culture that appears so toxic to people of faith or does the fault also rest on our shoulders?

 

On another thread I alluded to the belief that Latter-day Saints are called to seek the truth and to follow their well-formed consciences and their Holy Spirit inspired deductions.  We need not simply to surrender our minds to either the Church or secular society’s teachings.  The Church has changed its process of teaching truths – its emphasis or priorities of fundamental truths previously.  My question now is there may be a need for a change in process, in culture, to meet the needs of those who struggle whether it is with Church history, marriage, sexual morality or morality in general.   

 

I have faith that this dialogue must occur with the Brethren first and foremost.  We are a Church that believes completely, fully in revelation and that revelation for the Body must come from them unilaterally.  I strongly reject the methods used by others who demand change by using the secular media to change the Church to meet their own image and desires.  However, I am not against entering into respectful dialogue about pertinent issues.  It may be that our own LDS culture should change rather than us blaming the sinful nature of secular culture and those who struggle.

We represent, as members, the restored Church of Jesus Christ.  Our Church culture is created by our own thoughts and actions.  Our invitation to the world, the Great Commission, to repent and be baptized – to come unto Christ is real and vital.  The sins of each child of God are irrelevant to us and should remain so.  However, there is great room for improvement in how we treat those who have fallen by the wayside, those who question, and those who have yet to engage in the active life of discipleship.  How can we change our own culture to reflect the ideals that we cherish so much?

In my own Ward, I think that some of this conversation is going on now. As to the Stake, with their other Wards, I can not say. I will say that I went to church with friends while visiting Provo, and later this summer in Southern Idaho, and will say that I think that church in "The Mormon Belt" feels different than my experiences in Kirtland, Perry, Indianapolis, and other places. And, some people who have come here have expressed happiness in the open atmosphere here.

There are certain conversations I stay out of because frankly I do not know what to do. I pointedly follow the church leadership in regards to the whole diversity issue. The Media is educating Americans and has become the state religion for a substantial portion of Americans. There is a good reason that I do not have a television, and it saddens me that many Mormons seem to embrace the views of some very radical, self righteous, news agencies.

Racism is rampant in America, however in Indianapolis I attended a Ward where half those attending were Black, so in certain areas Mormons get a B.  With a couple people in my Ward, I have told them not to talk to me about God if they are going to say hateful political things. Some might assume that I am liberal but that is not correct. I just believe in loving cooperation.

Some have thought that becoming Mormon means the abandonment of their culture. The "Meet The Mormons" movie made it clear to me that at least in other countries people blend church values with cultural expression. I've returned to Hijab for various reasons and so far, that has not been an issue.

Even in the short, nearly 5 years of my exposure to the church, I have seen some change. May God watch over that change.

I recently heard someone else express this theory and it makes a lot of sense.  In fact, I welcome such a message of inclusiveness in the Church.  In some areas, I think we tend to confuse traditional Mormon protocol (e.g., Eagle Scout before driver's license, Disney movie date nights, etc.) with strict Gospel commandments.  And for those who don't fit the mold, there can be a feeling of not fitting in.  Although I've found that this is separation is more imagined than real as most members are either too compassionate (or busy) to be judgmental about the little things.  Needless to say, another reminder never hurts.

 

However, if the point was to simply preach to the converted, then why use a theatrical release to do so.  Isn't that the point of General Conference, The Ensign, the Twilight series of books, etc.?  Seriously, with all of the forms of messaging available, it would be odd for the Church to use motion pictures to communicate with the saints.  But hey, I'm always hearing that things are supposed to get weird in these latter-days, so why not?

If your picture is correct, you are Black. I spent 8 years in Muslim culture where a white girl like me was odd. They included Arabs, Africans, Persians and I don't know who. So, when I came to the Mormons, it felt like, real or not, that I had come back to the white club. This film helped me to remember that North European White people are in a minority in the world. The film also was pretty clear about not abandoning our cultural differences. It has been terribly hard to abandon Hijab. I felt naked. I returned to it a while back but am Mormon as much as any one.

I understand this was recently released to a few theaters here in the U.S. I wonder if anyone has seen it and what they thought of it. I also would like to know if anyone was able to bring along non-member friends and what their reaction was.

 

Are there any reviews out yet?

I just got home from seeing it. I am not sure if this was the church's intention but if they are serious, then this portends some changes in the church. If I remember right, there were six families in the movie and only one of them was from SLC, and they had a 1/2 white child that was hers. The rest were not white and that meant a lot to me.  They seemed to be saying that the church is for everyone, even if you do not fit the profile. There were several other messages in the movie, and if the church follows through, it will have a positive effect. Perhaps this movie was more for Mormons than Non- Mormons?

It had a big impact on me because they seemed to say very strongly that the church is very strongly cross cultural. I even saw a woman in church with a head covering, something that I felt really emotional about.

I only brought it up for ideas to show my son how very wrong it was, the documentary. No way Bush is behind it. Just gave a possibility of it coming from an inside job from evildoers, but don't really believe it. This was all new stuff, I hadn't heard about. Stargazer, did you read my post? Anyhow, moving on.

Well, the precident in Bush knowing about it ahead of time is that the President knew that the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor. He knew the fleet was just garbage, so they let the Japanese attack, knowing that this would put the American People in the mood to go to war.

One of the things that podcast said that too many Mormons believe that when person questions, it is because they have sinned.....that is simply not true.

 

One can doubt or have a faith crisis for many other reasons than sin.  

We need to ask ourselves, "How does my personal psychology influence my belief"? As Westerners, most of us are not aware of valid views in the rest of the world, especially the Middle East. I would be interested to hear from a Jewish scholar how it is that they manage to ignore the heritage of Ishmael, and what they think of him? In my past, the Jews were spoken of as "Gods chosen people", so how is it that they ignore their own brother?

I don't have any snotty answers about the BoM. It is as plausible as the Bible. There are also many so called un-cannonized works, some in Mormon theology. Do they have value in a scholarly study? Maybe the most important thing is less how JS lived but how we are inspired to live?  Some of us love to blame our ancestors for our own weaknesses. I rather doubt that God will see that as a serious defense.

I can definitely see something so wrong to posit the theory. But is there any chance some evil Americans were in on some of this? Some that were in the military? It mentioned there were practices held in case of the possibility of terrorists flying into buildings, maybe they were performing these practices, and the evil doers made it happen for real. Of course there would have to be several in on it. But certainly not who the documentary is pointing fingers at. And really, they couldn't get someone better than Charlie Sheen to narrate? But told my son, the producers of the documentary can and do lie.

I may have already said some of this, so some think I am just nuts.

Here are some factoids that I am pretty sure of, and they have precedence:

"They" knew the attack was coming. They did not try to stop it because Bush and his oil buddies wanted to gain control of the oil in Iraq. Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the world, perhaps the largest.

There were no WMD's. Saddam had Mustard gas that America gave him.

Any building over 10 stories gets demolition charges during construction. And we thought that the only reason for that sprayed on stuff in steel framed buildings was for fire protection?  During a fire, steel quickly loses strength, so insulating it will prolong structural strength. The sprayed on stuff also conceals the Demolition charges and associated wiring.  So, yes, once the buildings started down, they were demolished to make them fall straight down, not fall to the side.

There is more, but even talking about all this makes me start over the edge.

I am really hoping for the day that the Mormons "Save the Constitution", it is almost too late.

Mormon drug addiction:

I just watched a CNN "News" segment on drugs and the Mormon Church and it left me really riled up !

In my experience, I have not seen drug addiction, sex addiction, alcoholism, or any of the other "isms" just swept under the carpet like in my old Evangelical Denomination. When I was with them, it was handled with guilt, condemnation and punishement to include shunning.

I do not know how Muslims handle that sort of thing but do know, from a Saudi Citizen, that Saudi Arabia has a huge Alcoholism problem. I do not know if there are treatment protocols or what?

I know a few families that are struggling with various issues, and all I see from the Ward is support and compassion.

The news story left me Mad, really Mad !

I was listening to a podcast called "Mormon Discussions".  The specific Podcast is called "15 Ways to Help".

 

One of the points was that it is not important to "know".  "Belief" is good enough.

 

Another point was that believing in the B of M as history is not critical, nor is believing that Joseph was a prophet.

 

Another point was that when people have a faith crisis, do not belittle them and cause them pain.

 

All 15 points were really good.  Had members acted like he suggests, I might have never left the Church way back when.

 

Anyway...my question...do y'all agree with him?  I think the guy who does the podcast is named Bill Reel.

It is not important to know if it is true, though I assume it is. It is just as wrong as questioning the Bible. It is fruitless. When you question are you trying to find a way to get off the hook for your sin? What is your objective?  The more important question is to ask ourselves is: how can I use the lessons taught in both books to more fully please God?

Have you found anything cool in your family history research? I found out that I'm a descendant of Joseph Smith's grandfather.

I met a woman with the last name of Skinner, who I am related to from the 1860's era, and I never see her without asking myself, what went wrong? My Mother, a Webb was born in 1918, so perhaps her parents were born around 1900? Potentially, it would be only another two generations back to that earlier ancestor. Why did we not go to Utah? It is obvious that settlers were building Utah in the years 1860 to 1900. Polygamy was practiced, though I do not know if it was a general occurrence. Mother and I never spoke of her past ancestors save to say her dad was a "Church of Christer" and they had lay ministry. I did learn that there was an off shoot of Mormonism that was briefly called "Church of Christ", though it is doubtful that it bears any resemblance to present day Church of Christ.

It seems everyone back in the early Bible days lived hundreds and hundreds of years and were still able to have children. How was this possible and why do people now die out at 90 or 100? Tell me if I've made this thread before because my mind is drawing a blank.

After the fall, it was normal for people to live hundreds of years. Later in the Bible God reduced life expectancy to 120 years. I anticipate a CFR, so I will start hunting for it. Oh, here it is, Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

While we are on the subject, the front of the Book of Mormon says, "Another Testament of Jesus Christ". The BoM does not replace the Bible, and having read the list of changes that were instituted by Mormons in the KJV, they were not major. In fact, I am told that Mormons use the unaltered KJV now days.

I know people who have great facility with the BoM, something I envy, but know almost nothing about the KJV Bible. Hmmmm

The Brown family and others that still practice polygamy and other NON mainline Mormons that still practice polygamy.  I have also seen (unnamed sources) that 'some' Islamic groups etc that also practice polygamy according to their religious traditions also have a vested interest in the decisions of the courts in Utah.  I am NOT saying that all Muslims practice polygamy or wish it to be so...just that many people other than stubborn state officials are assisting in the push for the bans to be dissolved so that they are not being arrested for practicing and living a polygamous lifestyle among consenting adults...  It is not just about the LDS church mainstream, although you can see where many are following the cases closely.

I'll never face polygamy. I can say with certainty, still having ties with Muslims, that they practice it when they wish to because they simply ignore US laws. I was close friends with a woman in Ohio that had experienced it, and was asked to be second wife one time. I would have too, but when I asked first wife, she threw a fit.

No judgment from me for those who do it.

I am with you. I wish to do so bad. It as you know is a process of ebb and flow

I had bitterness and anger against a man for over 40 years. The Lords prayer was absolutely condemning. "Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors". It was so bad that I would catch myself thinking of it, and find my heart to be pounding and sweat on my forehead.The realization was guilt personified. Guilt piled on top of guilt until it seemed that no matter what, I would go straight to hell, the only comfort being was that I knew in my heart that I tried as hard as I could. Yet, somehow I had faith that nothing would happen to me but what God allowed. You can't imagine the tears over all this.

So, I got baptized to get the Missionaries to leave me alone. It was in the two weeks following that the bitterness and anger were suddenly gone. I will speak of it until I die. It was a complete miracle and I have no idea why God granted me the mercy at that time.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58505719-78/utah-wives-appeals-attorney.html.csp

 

Apparently the state of Utah is just not going to let this one go.  We thought they might, then they didn't.

 

The original lawsuit ruling - where the cohabitation clause was declared unconstitutional - was December 24, 2013.

On August 27, 2014 the judge issued the final ruling (not sure what the difference is).

Now they are appealing this decision to the 10th circuit court of appeals, but in light of the SCOTUS action this past week, I think they're going to have a hard time winning that appeal.

 

 

Oh, and while I was reading up on this I came across an interesting bit of trivia - guess what year one of the last prominent mainstream Church polygamous family that were members in good standing died out?

Would you believe 1954 - 64 years after the manifesto and only 60 years ago?

Much closer than we realize.  There are probably members on this board who were members when polygamous families still existed in the Church.

Please tell me who is advocating Polygamy? I know of some Polygamists but they are pretty much quiet and do not wish attention.

The scholarly argument that Mormons aren't Christians is that Christianity has been defined by Nicaea for millennia (so they claim).

 

Then there's the trashier "different Jesus" argument advanced by pastors. Also the shock-valuable "Mormons believe Jesus is Lucifer's brother" argument. Because, of course, "Mormons aren't Christians because they don't believe Father/Son/Holy Ghost are homoousios" isn't going to get Billy riled up.

 

But the vast majority of Christendom does not understand the Trinity. They inadvertently explain modalism whenever they employe analogies. This goes for Catholics and Evangelicals (liberal Protestants don't care).

 

The Eastern Orthodox Church, I've been told, have a much simpler model of homoousios (there are two levels of homoousious, and they buy level one only, something like that). They don't subscribe to the Athanasian Creed and God's being "incomprehensible."

 

So Christianity is defined by a principle the vast majority of Christendom misunderstands. So how in hades is God going to judge someone for not believing in it? Well you can argue that they take it by faith even though they don't completely understand it. Well OK, what I believe about the Godhead as  a Mormon is the Trinity then, even though my understanding is lacking.

Well, the ilk of Evangelical Christianity that I was thrown out of is definitely "trashy". They eschew any sort of real scholarship. If something bad you say about them is the truth is it slanderous? And, one pastor in that can of worms actually told me that he did not believe certain goofy theology, but to keep his preaching certificate, he had to remain silent.

The truth is that none of us actually know if the Trinity is a good model. Some time if God whacks me on the side of the head and says, "Look dummy, the trinity is good", then I'll buy it. At best so many doctrines are simply guesses we make to explain things we do not understand.

The "did the Bible happen?" discussion will make me get up and walk out immediately, not because I necessarily think it is true, but if we have to pick at the Bible then I just think that is non productive and faithless, and a waste of time. I would rather talk about what was God's intent with the flood story, or with the Job story?

When we finally meet God (Allah, Subhanna Wa Allah ta Allah to me)  face to face We are going to see so many things.  So for example, when Jesus the Christ returns, does it matter if he just pops out of a dimensional rift, or if he arrives in a planet sized space ship? If you want to stick with the "Savior on a big white horse with a two edged sword sticking out of his mouth" model, I am good with that.

Mean while, since we have been expending lots of energy on sophisticated, high level theology, there is just doing what Jesus told us to do. Love God, Love each other.

My experience in the Church since I joined 17 years ago has been awesome.  But One person who was leadership did some things on several occasions that undermined my trust and faith.

Yes, well he was a slacker perhaps? I'm an expert in knowledge of the consequences of brooding on old hurts. We should both just move on?

As to trust and faith? Two inexplicable things happened to bring me to the church and in times of faltering faith, they are either my anchor or a shackle. It is my choice to choose which.