EllenMaksoud

My big sky was the first time I drove across Wyoming...just wow! One day we drove for 7 hours, see a storm develop, rage and die, and we never reached it.

Yes, some of these storms should convince an athiest that there is a God. In 2010 we drove Portland, Or to Painesville, OHIO. I am getting pretty old so limited our travel to 500 miles a day. The US is big, really big. In 1968, we drove Fairbanks to Portland (5 days) and then Portland to Lawton, OK. I barely remember any of it.

I read one of Orson Card's books.  That was enough for me.  I have no desire to see the movie.

Apparently he has written several Mormon books, on being "Saints", about a woman who converted at 8 and later married Joseph Smith.

Gwen, I recommend the sand dunes of Moses Lake Washington as the place to go for the experience you describe.  (There are lots of places around there where you can get the big sky experience.)

Thank you. I will have a look. I am planning on two weeks, so have time.  I just found a place North of Enterprise, Oregon, 43 miles from there called Red Hill Lookout. Still checking to see if camping is permitted, but I do not think there will be an issue, especially with no camp fire.  Now I have to find a nice wide field telescope.

Let's see, today my dog got me up an hour early. I fed him and took him out. He came back in with a bunch of poop stuck to his backside so I got to clean him. Lovely work. Then I get a call that there needs to be a ramp fixed that was made 90 degrees out from where I said to. That fix took 3 hours and several cuss sessions. I still have to build some more stuff in a hurry because another person changed his mind about what he needed even though the plans were clear when first described. On top of it all I ran out of energy because ,with all the turmoil I forgot to have any breakfast.

Frustration, get used to it. That is life and it doesn't get better with age. Oh, and I don't recall anyone putting his/her arm around me to comfort me in my time of need. That ' be a man ' stuff is so harmful to my sensitive spirit.

Sorry about the rant. I will now go soak my head.

Well, sumpin ya gots to unnerstan bout us women folk. It's us wut gets to wear the white dress at wedding. Like ta see youuns try that. An we hafta smile all the time, even when we aren't inside. Ever see a Mormon Woman not smiling? I want to see that picture.

I can't keep this up. Hope your day goes better.

Just looking for clarity, no offense taken and I know no offense meant.

A couple people's emotions are inflamed at me, and I am completely clueless as to what I have done.   In person, people understand that I am rarely very serious, though in life at times we either laugh or crack.   So, perhaps at times humor is a thinly veiled self defense mechanism.

There are some Mormon cultural issues that either drive you starkers bonkers or you laugh about. And, I agree with Tacenda that at times Mormons exhibit a sort of defensiveness. As for me, the truth of the church is completely unassailable, else the statements and accusations of certain EV acquaintances would bother me a lot.

The only way I deal with the scriptures anymore is to know that they are written by men, who some do get true revelation but many think they are, but aren't.  My compass lets me know which are the right and the wrong ones.   

Through no fault of Mormon men, in the past my relationships with men, beginning in early childhood, have not had good outcomes. I never expected to even like men, AT ALL. So feeling some affection toward them comes as a great surprise, though it is carefully concealed behind a "Burqua" of thinly veiled deception.

It could be a form of persecution complex syndrome.  LDS are so tied into their faith that it is an attack on them personally and the church.  Anything said that hints at anti Mormonism, for example, but could run the gamut.  LDS will need to develop an even thicker skin, and more solid faith than ever, even since the JS days.  And search the truth to a deeper faith they get themselves, rather than lean on others.  Often I feel like I'm watching people act like I use to, in different atmospheres.  If I hadn't had a crisis in belief of Mormonism, I'd be right there with them.      

I'm actually very firmly Mormon, and unapologetic too.

I get attacked by EV, and Muslim folk at times, but having been both, I know their games, so they do not threaten me at all. Most of the time, I just laugh at them. As to Mormons and Mormonism, it is not perfect and as a Mormon will confront things I see. It is not an attack on Mormonism but on imperfection. People are welcome to disagree with me, though it would be nice if they were not offended and angry.  

For some reason, I seem to be offending people today. I am not sure what they are reacting to. Sorry.

Sometimes the biggest obstacle to being a Mormon are Mormons.

Gwen

Is this what you mean or do you mean don't recall hearing "women are not equal"?

Gosh, I feel like a trubble magnet today.   Personally, we are equal, or more so.   And in talking with other women privately, we are the glue that holds the church together, doing most of the hard work. As I have said before, there is a single passage in the Bible that gives me pause and that is in Genesis 3:16, "and he shall rule over thee".  I do not like this scripture and do not wish to obey it, though as long as a man in authority over me is reasonable, I will eventually comply after venting my frustrations.

All us Hippies are now called Grandma and Grandpa.   It has morphed into the Military/Intelligence/Industrial/Political Complex. MIIP see for short. All lead by a bunch of sociopaths.

Though what you say is partially in jest, I am frightened of them. I was working for the City of Hillsboro when 9/11 happened and in the normal discharge of my duties had lots of contact with City, County, State and Federal employees. We would often speak about our families, fishing, skiing and other fun stuff as I completed my tasks.

After 9/11 a certain few went "Starkers Bonkers" (You'll have to look that up in DSM 5   )  Soon, our city and personal phones were being illegally monitored, certain folk in the City were advocating taking all employees personal weapons, and they were talking of doing insane things like putting National Guard troops on government buildings and critical infrastructure. In short, it was an insanely paranoid organization culture.  Our government was treating American citizens as the enemy and not looking for terrorist elements.

Owing to my own psychological challenges, it takes a lot of stability around me to keep myself centered. That was gone and in short order, I hit the wall and wound up in places where the doors were locked from the outside several times.

It was not until I'd been with the Mormons a while that I began to feel safe and saucy once again.

Why should she have PMed you? You're spouting nonsense publicly and she called you out on it. Good for her. Why don't you tell us all what these terrible consequences are for not towing the correct Mormon political line.

You make vague accusatory statements regularly about the church and its members. Don't forget, the Mormon world is not that big, and people aren't going to automatically swallow your words. It is going to be known by some whether what you purport is correct because there will be those who have direct knowledge or experience, such as knowing the leaders you malign in your ward.

I guess you have somehow missed all of the church's teachings on free agency. And I have somehow missed all the......what?....Democrats?...being lashed to the stake and beaten for their political beliefs..

Wow, that was authoritative and condemning of me from a member of the board with what, 8 posts?  LOL I can't even take you seriously. I am Mormon, but not blindly so, and no I am not a Democrat, as if that is any of your business.

I have survived quite a few American leaders and have no faith in our government any more. I think that America exists solely on the good will of Heavenly Father and the way we are going that is apt to run out at any time.

I don't malign the leaders of my Ward, though I have had some issue with our General Authority, though I have repented of that and ask your and their forgiveness.  There actually was an issue with certain leaders pressing the idea that I get a Temple Recommend, and it became too stressful for me owing to the particulars of the situation, so I pulled the plug on it, though some of those people, who mean well, are wont to accept my withdrawal.

In my opinion, Heavenly Father knows what is going on and he has a direct link with the President of the church, and if any issue is not being handled correctly Heavenly Father will intervene.  To push on these issues, particularly mine, is faithless. I will rely on God to be my advocate.

When you make such statements of personal opinion on the open board about Mormons getting into a lot of trouble for speaking out... or "penalties for Mormons" and the "Mormon political line," I always imagine how this must come across to non-members who may be participating on the Board, many of whom simply lurk rather than posting to find out what we are all about... such statements give a wrong impression.  So I answer on the open Board vs a PM... I may PM you also

 

GG

I appreciate your criticism, though I think the truth should be told but perhaps not in this venue.

Really. I thought they were always saying in womens conferences to stop beating yourself up.

I don't recall ever hearing that women are equal with men. I do hear that women are vital to the church. When sometimes talking to a man or men, the idea that they are in charge and better than women will subtly surface, though most know not to be within arms reach of me when saying it. The threat of loss of their chest hair seems to be a good deterrent.

AND, there is that troublesome passage in Genesis, "he shall rule over thee". However, after working since I was 12 years old, and eventually leading work crews that included men, honey will get more bears than a stick. A leader that must threaten and abuse is no leader at all.

So, as far as I am concerned, any man that is abusive in any way should be stripped of all church authority.

I am a very soul searching person, the curse of the heart of a poet. Click on my Gwen, and all poems by William E Lee, are mine. But I also collect poems by those who soul search. Go there and see if one of mine or others speaks to your soul.

This is not self promotion, I just understand what if is like to live on mountains and in valleys and I have many by other authors there that may help.

My goal remains the same always, to die with my testimony in tact, my family intact, my heart in tact...and to one day write something that will change another's life.

God bless you my sister..

Bill (Pa Pa) Lee

I missed your comment about living in the mountains and valleys, and must say that you have hit the nail on the head. It is called Bipolar II and most of us manage without medication. It is a great comfort to have those around that will tolerate the changes in mood with good humor.  Thank you.

So, looking around for some happy, giggly, romantic Science Fiction to read, and what pops up but Mr Card's "Speaker for the Dead".  After "Ender's Game" the author says that it would be imposible for a 13 year old boy to return to Earth to live. Hmmmm. Boys are boys and my thought is that he would move into swimming in the lake, and playing ball at "Light Speed", blocking all that out completely for at least a few years.

Perhaps I am going to have to write some "happy, romantic Sci Fi"?   Why do people write such serious books? I'm confused.

This topic gives me pause... because the years are flying by and I am facing what I expect to be a very short time left in my life... At 73, certain health issues dictate that I probably have perhaps 5 years.  It gives me a mixed feeling of anticipation and some apprehension.  When I think about moving through the veil, in some ways I'm sooo ready to do so... in other ways I get nervous.

My goal... my prayer... is that I will be able to keep my brain and intellect clear and active whatever time I have left so that I can control my life... make my decisions... stand independent since I'm alone.  It really is something to be alone... most times I'm perfectly fine with it, and love my life.  Other times it is an emptiness... a hollow feeling... It is during these times that only prayer eases my heart and mind and even comes close to filling the void within me.

 

Goals?  Several... mainly to do with my art work.  And, to reach out to others less fortunate and do what I can to live a charitable life in time and means.  And of course, to endure to the end...

 

GG... sigh...

It is amazing to me how much others appreciate encouragement and reassurance. Sometimes people who I think have it all together and not a worry in the world reveal cares and concerns that I though not possible. And, I find that helping others often eases my own pain. What a bonus.

Others keep talking to you too , I'm not a Mormon and I guess not special.

Oh, wait a minute, I am trying to get my shoe outta my mouth. So, what, are you Jewish?

Still do in Civics classes, usually starts right after State History (which was 5h grade in my day) then America History was the following year. In High School it is a light peppering of these things. In College it is professors making fun of those ideals espoused within.

When I got out of the Army in 1969, in the Fall I started going to College. In one of my classes was a Professor was a radical little pop in jay who sharply criticized America's efforts in Vietnam, and the soldiers who served, calling us baby killers and other offensive things. I don't think I need to tell you what happened between he and I that day.

I have never found either of your statements to be true... just what is the "Mormon political line" anyway?  And pray tell, just what possible"trouble" as a Mormon does one face if they voice an opinion about what you term the Military/Industrial complex?? 

This is what I mean when I say you throw out your political opinions as if they were facts... I certainly don't know your statements here to be factual.

A person on this board that I consider a friend is poles apart from me politically... yet we are in tune spiritually... in fact, I see numerous views politically on various levels among a good many posters participating on the Board.  So what "penalties" are various people facing?  I'd really be interested in know what penalties you have learned about... particularly since I've been LDS all my life and haven't a clue...

 

GG

I smell a thread lock coming. What the heck. If a Mormon on Facebook says Obama is a liar, and I challenge them ... One of these folk was one of the Sisters in Kirtland, Ohio that first taught me. Her politics really challenged me. Oh, I am not going to bother tonight ... You coulda PM'sed me.

I was incredibly self-critical when I was on my mission. I just usually didn't share with the members. I am still self-critical but again, keep it to myself. It can be draining but the atonement seems to help out a bit.

 

 

 

Probably not many. This one she almost went to the wrong building (Catholics across the street). Her kid loved the font though. It was hard to convince him that no, we couldn't fill it. He did like playing the organ though.

I had been absolutely self critical my whole life, but then the Mormons got me and absolutely would not permit it.  This included Sisters, Elders and every single other member I met. And, it changed me. Thank you. Now I am a handful, you know, Queen Gwen

I feel a deep commitment to the Missionaries because they were such angelic warriors on my behalf in Kirtland. NO one had ever done that for me !!!

for one thing it takes much less time to elect the Prime Minister!!! 2 years of this flub dubbery to get the American Fella in the White house is too much!!!

Hyeah, they are doing flyers on Mitt Romney right now, and I am just frustrated enough to vote for him. Just watch the news, Facebook and other social sites.

If my Mission was any indication discouragement is a daily trial. I wouldn't worry too much unless it becomes continuous and drains them.

 

I came back from assisting with my first chapel tour tonight. I admit it went better then what I envisioned when I first heard of the program.

No. This is a big departure from what I have encountered in the last three years. In my experience, Mormons do not talk about themselves in self depricative ways. I do not know if I have encountered the same Sister twice or what. The first time was when she said that she knew she was not as good as the Elders, and this time it was about not having the courage to talk to people.

I pointedly encourage any woman, Sister or not, when she speaks badly about herself, and I must say that I have never heard Mormons of any stripe being self critical. This is a cultural anomaly. These Missionaries need our help and now that I write about it, I remember a few weeks ago where the speaker at Sacrament admonished us to join hands with the Missionaries and support them as never before.

I'm concerned. On Facebook, I have encountered Sister Missionaries and Elder Missionaries to some extent sounding very discouraged. I spend a lot of time on the Internet and this is something I am unused to. If someone that has an IN with the Missionary leaders is on here, please alert them.

Additionally, we could each take the time to encourage our Missionaries when we encounter them.

I am a very soul searching person, the curse of the heart of a poet. Click on my Gwen, and all poems by William E Lee, are mine. But I also collect poems by those who soul search. Go there and see if one of mine or others speaks to your soul.

This is not self promotion, I just understand what if is like to live on mountains and in valleys and I have many by other authors there that may help.

My goal remains the same always, to die with my testimony in tact, my family intact, my heart in tact...and to one day write something that will change another's life.

God bless you my sister..

Bill (Pa Pa) Lee

Hey, sorry I can't find you with the usual Google search. Can you give me any clues?

I am a very soul searching person, the curse of the heart of a poet. Click on my Gwen, and all poems by William E Lee, are mine. But I also collect poems by those who soul search. Go there and see if one of mine or others speaks to your soul.

This is not self promotion, I just understand what if is like to live on mountains and in valleys and I have many by other authors there that may help.

My goal remains the same always, to die with my testimony in tact, my family intact, my heart in tact...and to one day write something that will change another's life.

God bless you my sister..

Bill (Pa Pa) Lee

Please do not worry that I will end my own life. Meeting Heavenly Father in person is a goal that I hope we all share. I will look you up. Thank you.

Gwen

I am not aware of any former married president where his wife would not help him :-)

 

Jim

Mormon women are special.