EllenMaksoud
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Posts posted by EllenMaksoud
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After the council and war in the Premortal world, and according to scripture, 2/3 of the spirits and angels remained who believed that Jesus should be the preordained Redeemer. My question is, does this mean that there is a 'set number' of souls available to come to Earth before the beginning of the Millennium?
Will some souls never get the chance at life in the second estate?
Can the Millenium not begin until all souls have had a chance to come here?
I've read about it many times, and always wondered. If this is not an appropriate question, please let me know...
WB
I believe the author of those words did not understand what he was told to say.
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The rate of convert baptisms is slowing down and the increased number of missionaries hasn't made much improvement? Is there anything else we can do better?
My theory is that the world is simply becoming too secular and religion is going out of demand. Or am I being too pessimistic?
Frankly, the decrease in age policy is still evolving. I notice with the Elders that they seem much less effective than those who waited the extra time previously. However, it seems like supervision of the younger missionaries seems to be ramping up so perhaps it will all balance out. I am not going to disagree with the First Presidency about the age change. I am sure we will adjust.
You say that convert baptisms are down? You would determine that how?
One thing that I notice
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2 thoughts:
I wasn't sure about the whole garments thing. Yes, my mom wore them most of my life. But I was not a clothes fan. I hated wearing more layers than was necessary. And wearing a pair of garments from here on out seemed like a crazy idea. It wasn't any sense of being forced to do it. It really was, in large part, just my vanity for the most part. But despite my reservations, it was strangely just...easy. I received an immediate testimony of this was what God wanted for me from day 1 of wearing them, both in the temple and immediately after. That's made the transition to them, almost flawless. I've found ones that work for me for different reasons. And on a plus, with the one brand I never have any wedgies....definite plus.
And if you think G's are confining to one's behavior/choices, try going on a mission. I mean there's a rule for what bra color you should bring (no joke). And maybe that helped too. I went from G's to mission in a couple months, and suddenly I couldn't wear anything that I would have before the experience. And I think that strangely helped as well.
For one I learned the meaning of moral agency. It didn't mean, necessarily, choosing whatever we wanted. It meant choosing between the things of God or not of Him. Garments were the placed symbol of a further covenant (and not a form of punishment, as is prison). And God doesn't want just what's left over of us at the end of the day...He wants all of us. To consciously allow that submission to him, each day, was a nice reminder of it.
On the other note, I also learned what true freedom was on my mission. There were so many rules to follow. So MANY nuanced rules that could easily be confining. But I came to give up my whole heart and didn't seek much reasons to break any rule that I was expected to follow. No one was necessarily monitoring my behavior. But I'd "given up" 1.5 yrs to the Lord to what had been a pretty good life and I wasn't going to do anything to belittle that. And yet midway through, I realized I had never been more free in my life. The pain that I'd buried had been drudged up....and then taken away. Because I sought obedience, He could clean the parts of my soul that i'd kept hidden...even from myself. And He mended me to a point where I realized I was finally completely at peace as a person. By that point I didn't really feel like i sacrificed much at all. I'd received what I truly needed in spades. There was no way I could pay it back....nothing that could have done such a complete job. Nothing.
At this points, I don't like leaving without garments. I feel naked/exposed. It is a temple expectation, but - just like the sense of giving up for my mission - the sense of expectation has moved to gift and reminder of exactly who I am to God.
With luv,
BD
It is interesting that you would feel exposed without your garments. In coming out of Islam, I felt the same leaving my Hijab at home.
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Not so selfless. She has followed me over4 or 5 states, washed my socks and underwear, and put up with me for 54 years.
I am so sorry for your pain and that of your wife. I know that you will meet again in a better place when this time is finished. It would have been 49 years this March for us.
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Yes, I am. Many things that you post here are not reflective of reality. Those of us who know you in real life are acutely and painfully aware of this.
Your issues cannot be blamed on the church or it's members...or on Islam...or any of the religions you have floated in and out of over the years.
So, you confront me in public without my knowing who you are, for what purpose? You can have your opinion of me, but I can not know how you come to these conclusions? Did you simply comment here to humiliate? And, how would you measure reality? By what standard do you measure your own?
Oh, wait, I know who you are and you aren't nice in real life either. On ignore you go. You were there once before, but I thought that you had gotten nicer.
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Oh! Beautiful. We need a poetry thread.
Well, you will have to start it. I am grounded.
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True. But all have the same calling, to follow Him. Some are given gifts that others do not have, but no gift is greater than another.
I have a fondness for this poem:
Go placidly amid the noise and the haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible, without surrender,
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly, and listen to others,
even to the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexatious
to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain or bitter, for always
there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals,
and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love, for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment;
it is as perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore, be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be.
And whatever your labors and aspirations
in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.
©1927 Max Ehrmann (renewed) Bell & Son publishing, LLC
Thank you. The poem in some ways reminds me of "Thanitopsis" . Oops, the internet is having a ruction again.
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Wouldn't it nicer if it was all charity, rather than vanity? You are right that the world needs our kindness. Not all is figured out yet, not within ourselves and not within the church. Sometimes I feel like the only things I have figured out are that Jesus Christ atoned for all of us, and we are all in this together.
Not being in a position to give advice to anyone, I have taken some long steps back, not to feel anger or rejection, but to try to suss out what is important to Heavenly Father. Some are given heavy burdens and many are within the church. The simple idea of simply hanging onto Heavenly Father and rejecting everything else may seem attractive at times.
There are those around us that are beautiful or handsome. Who seem to have no struggles at all. We can not anticipate the tears and anguish that some of them will feel tonight, wondering if they have portrayed that which is pleasing to Jesus the Christ. The trials of others is so obvious, we sometimes wish that they would suffer a bit more quietly.
The LDS church tows a huge long train of doctrine; perhaps even more than the Catholic Church. Not being born to the covenants it is often unclear whether some of these ideas are even nessessary. Some of it is as inscrutable as Calculus II. Should an Evangelical even try to convert to the church? Perhaps it is even more strange to have a Muslim convert?
The idea that we might remove all the vanity from our lives and replace that with charity seems vain perhaps? Do we decieve ourselves when we think that we have accomplished that? Perhaps an Alien mind is incapable of understanding humans. It is clear that Men are from Mars and women are from Venus. What do we do if we are from, "Somewhere Else Entirely"?
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I know nothing except that we all, you, me and everybody else, interpret the "facts" according to our personal experiences and understanding. It saddens me when someone misinterprets my intentions but I really have no control over that.
May you find the peace you seek.
You know ... I'm sorry. Circumstances are really stressful right now and I responded improperly.
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No one lied to you. Those of us who know you in real life know the real story.
The church is not to blame for your long-standing issues.
Seek professional help as suggested.
And you would know what was said to me how? And the "real story" ... Hmmm are you saying I am misrepresenting the facts?
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I wasn’t part of the earlier discussions but I agree; if someone is XXY with a mutated SRY gene, to me she would be female because the Y gene in this case functions as a female gene.
But even without the science as the basis for this conclusion, it seems to me that if a child is born of indeterminate sex, is surgically made to present as male, in good faith decides later that was the incorrect choice and changes her presentation to female and even uses surgery to restore her presentation to female, I think everyone should accept her as female. In my mind, this is a surgical correction or restoration and does not fall under the Church policy for elective sex reassignment surgery as I understand it (but I don’t have a Handbook). It certainly appears to be a different situation than intersex or transgender persons.
Thank you. Had a long discussion with another woman this afternoon and have decided that the important thing is to hang onto Heavenly Father and his will for me. The rest, though painful does not compare with the cross. The most important issue is: can I do what Heavenly Father wants me to do? The answer is yes.
Ellen you have been asked repeatedly to stop hijacking threads. I have hidden multiple personal off-topic posts. If this continues, our only recourse will be to ban you.
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When I was born I looked like I was a little skinny spider monkey, and wasn't given 6 months to live. I've fooled them now for 63 years and hope to continue to fool them for many more. Though that is looking less likely with my health issues. Life is largely what we make it. You don't have to explain yourself to anyone you don't want to. When I turned 40 I passed the point of caring what others think of me. If they like me that is good. If they don't I pay little to no attention to them.
I am sorry for your suffering. I know that there are many who are tormented by those who vainly think themselves superior. I remember the words of Solomon (?), "Vanity, all is vanity". Here is a poem I wrote just this morning. Please do not worry that it is a suicide note.
Always knew I was different and the Rents treated me that way. Thought perhaps I was borne on Earth, but in this latter time it seems as though that is not so. Someone suggested I am from Kolob. I thought perhaps I was Klingon but that is a vain imagining. Most certainly not Vulcan!
Recently, memories of my home planet have started to surface, a glimpse at a time. In that place, they do not fight. There are no labels; not black, white, spick, anglo, rag head, gay, lesbian, no they just are ...
On Earth many entertain the delusion that they must be aggressive to attain their goals. The meek get run over or even enslaved. Perhaps the tears of the innocent are what fill the oceans? Those tears, they are salty you know, just like the oceans.
I shall be returning home soon, though I hope not too soon. There are still those who need love, and to be healed, and to be reminded that if they are not careful, they can hurt others.
There is still so much to learn though at times staying here seems futile.
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I wish not to ban you at all. I'm merely expressing, hoping that you'll see, that from this type of forum, not knowing you in person, and being physically separated from you, how can we possibly do the right thing for you? Can you understand that? You ask that which we cannot give.
You are of course correct. I apologize. I should not have allowed the title of the thread inflame my passions.
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I've always been as kind as I can be to you. So I don't understand this vitriol you have towards the Church I have loved for the last 43 years. May you find peace in your chosen departure.
I am thankful for your kindness. Thank You. The truth is: the Doctor arogantly made the wrong decision at birth. Today, mostly those like me are left to determine their own future. Truth is that no one knows unless I tell them. I could easily have simply not told and everything would have worked out. I am simply too worn out by it all to explain myself again.
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I realize that church membership is only like 15 million out of 7 billion but if you are a member of the Church would your life be any different if you didn't have your Patriarchal blessing? I don't get why we are assigned Tribes and if one tribe is different then any other. I know a guy who is from the Tribe of Dan and he's a great guy and stuff but he's no better nor worse then anyone else, I don't see the distinction of being Ephraim as opposed to some other tribe. Honestly me knowing what tribe I come from doesn't do anything for me, I don't have visions and extra blessings that others don't seem to have.What is the added advantage of all this?
Deleted. Ellen: Stop making yourself the subject of threads, please.
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SALT LAKE CITY — In a bold political move, the LDS Church began the new anti-beard campaign “Not Even Once” to distance itself from the unrighteousness that comes with facial hair. Recent studies show that 53% of men with facial hair, especially beards, stop coming to church when the facial hair grows to a noticeable length. Those with beards are 67% less righteous than their clean-shaven counterparts, according to a recent study by BYU.
http://www.thebunyion.com/2014/04/28/lds-church-begins-new-not-even-once-anti-beard-campaign/
This is urban myth.
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I'll try to keep this very brief. My wife and I married in the SLC temple. I left the church in spirit a few years later and left it officially ten years after that. The interim for me was spent in atheism, rearing our kids, regular church attendance with the family, and simultaneous maintenance of the illusion that I was a believer - put another way, I lied to church leaders, members, and my own children about what I really believed. I accepted church callings, took part in church charitable works, and helped my wife teach the kids things I did not believe. The years of duplicity took its toll on me and culminated into a gradual, sure fall into extreme anger and bitterness. I only began climbing out of that pit after turning back to Christ and being baptized into a different church. I went public with this information and everything changed for my wife. Although I had begun to heal, my decision to go public with my apostasy and quit lying deeply wounded her and disrupted the family harmony. I admit my culpability. She didn't bargain on a temple marriage that would culminate in a part-member reality. But she also didn't bargain on encountering the dark side of teachings about eternal families.
The doctrine is beautiful, but the negative spiritual and, especially, social implications for families where one spouse falls away are stark. It's bad enough for my poor wife to know that in the eyes of the church we're no longer married eternally. What's worse (for her) is the overnight change in how she is treated by church members when my apostasy becomes general knowledge in the ward. We have lived in four wards since I left the church (including the ward we were in when I did the dirty deed), and the result is always the same. In every ward, the members are genuinely friendly, open, and caring towards me, until they find out why I won't be giving any talks or accepting any church callings or attending elder's quorum. People are still nice, but the nature of our interactions are changed. Awkwardness and discomfort permeates everything. Gradually, people begin to keep their distance. It's my fault, since I don't participate in any meetings or activities at all except for the occasional sacrament mtg and gospel doctrine, and only when my wife is there with me. Personally, I'm fine with people avoiding me like the plague. I don't care. But it really bothers me when my wife is suddenly treated very differently, just because members, especially the relief society sisters, find out about me. That's when the dark side of mormon teachings about eternal families begins to show itself. The sister missionaries never, ever visit us - until people find out about me. That's when they take a sudden interest in my wife. In every ward, when the truth is known, several sisters ask my wife such things as "Doesn't your husband love you anymore?" "How can he do that?" "Do you think he had/is having an affair?" "Doesn't he want to be married to you forever?" This happens in every single ward and it kills her. She thinks, no matter how well-meaning, she's talked about behind her back. I heard church members talking about apostates and their families all of my life, all 40+ years of my active church attendance, so I'm sure she's not wrong. The fact that missionaries suddenly start showing up at our home just adds to my wife's sense that our family is a "project" for the ward. All my wife wants is to be treated exactly like every other sister in the ward is treated. But it's my belief that the gossip results from the insidious (to me) belief that she will only be married to me in the highest level of the celestial kingdom if I repent, am rebaptized, and return to my family priesthood duties as husband and father. This is something I will never do. That means at death our marriage will be sundered and my wife will be given to another man, if she has hopes to be exalted. In my mind, that easily explains the pity party always shown to my wife, and the vicious gossip about me and my alleged infidelities and/or lack of love for her, when people find out about me. It also explains why hearing mention of eternal families at church (which is every single week) makes her very sad.
All of this is complicated by my older son's refusal to attend church anymore. He's 15, very smart and a 4.0 honors student, and of an age to make up his own mind about what he believes about spiritual matters. I don't deny my influence on him, though it is never intended to destroy his belief in the church (despite what some of my family members have told me). I've encouraged him to read the Book of Mormon for himself and pray. He says no thanks. The ward gossip my wife hears about me, and her reasonable conviction that she's a project, means that she has no desire to go to church with only part of her family and stick out like a sore thumb. It understandably makes her sad. The commentary and looks she gets infuriates her. So she's simultaneously sad and angry on Sundays. It also understandably makes her fear having to sit there knowing what people are thinking about me and taking pity on her. So it's a battle every Sunday to get the entire family to church with my wife. Sundays pretty much suck in our house. My poor wife. It's not enough that I'm there with her at church. She's treated completely differently now that I'm out of the closet about my beliefs. The fact that I'm no longer a member is seemingly more important to church members than the fact that I'm a Christian man who loves my family with all my heart.
IMO, all of this negativity that my wife experiences - the gossip about me, the pity, the project - is directly caused by the belief that salvation in the highest heaven requires an eternal marriage. It's my belief that no matter how wonderful and beautiful the idea of eternal families is, the doctrine can ruin part-member families like mine through the negative influence and behavior of church members who, no matter how well meaning, manifest pity, make families like mine a project, and gossip about those like me who leave the church. It's my belief that church members can't help it. The church is true. Joseph Smith is a prophet. People like me never have a good reason to leave and violate my temple covenants. I get it. I do support my wife's participation in church but it's obvious to me that she's being slowly pushed away by the behavior of church members. I see it happening. If she wasn't so obviously unhappy about it, it would make me very happy for church members to push her away and have the chance that she will one day join me and leave the church. But I'm not happy at all because she loves going to church and she's so unhappy at feeling like a fish out of water at church. My poor wife. This is the dark side of Mormon teaching. Teachings about eternal families are only good and healthy for families where both spouses are active, believing members. Maybe someone in this forum has connections on high and can say something or share my experience. This needs to be a conference talk, to put an end to this kind of shaming and gossip. It can be Part 2 to Uchtdorf's effort to put an end to speculation about why people leave the church.
Sorry, that wasn't very brief.
I am examining my own exit from Mormonism as it occurs. It feels like a slow motion horror movie that will end in death. It feels like this will end in my not being religious at all. Oh, I'll likely still believe in God. Even the daemons believe in God.
It is hard to balance the healing that God gave me in this church with the snide, superioristic way they needle me. Trying to understand if the Mormons were just another stop along the way, or if I was meant to stay still wears on me. And, I will say that certain doctrines are pure blarney. It works fine if I keep gushing mindless praise and obvious hero worship for the church, but the minute that you have a single complaint about anything, some Mormons will burn you down until you are a heap of ash. NO WAIT, what about the love of Jesus Christ?
It is doubtful that I will make an angry, dramatic, imateur, sickening Youtube video that would just reinforce a diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder. And, it is not that I think the church is not true. It is simply that I now know that I will never be a full member in it despite all the logic and science ... They lied to me about the Atonement and a few other things.
Between 1844 and 1977 Blacks were not allowed in the temple. Now, in 2014 they don't allow me and people like me in the temple. They treat us like [deleted]. This despite personal testimony, the Atonement, repentance, and Medical evidence. I am more hurt and angry that you can even guess. However, I promise not to spray my brains on the door of the SLC temple like some have done.
God knows what they do. It is all that I need.
Ellen: Please watch your use of language and review the board guidelines. Also, you need to refrain from making comments that hint at suicide. It causes distress to others and we encourage you to seek professional help.
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That's why they need the Priesthood. Atleast that's what my mom would say to me, even when I could care less.
Women are beyond the priesthood. We hold it all together, dry all the tears, make all the dumb plans work, bring excitement into the dull, pitiful, boring lives of monolitic men. It has hurt me a lot when some very few men have put me down, acted superior, and bullied me. It is freeing to realize that anyone that would do that to another is deeply insecure, and weak. When he used to yell at me, beat me unconscious and mentally abuse me. He was the weak one. Today, I have Smith and Wesson.
References to guns will not be permitted. The topic is women at the priesthood session, please take personal matters to Social Hall.
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I just saw an interview and story about how "Ordain Women" is once again planning to attend the Priesthood Session. Only this time with twice as many women. How many more sessions will we have to endure the supposed "faithful" female members crashing Priesthood before some type of action occurs to deter it?
“I think women are foolish to pretend they are equal to men, they are far superior and always have been.”
William Golding.
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I have a dear friend who I agree with politically on most things (the purpose of this thread is not political). He left the Church about ten years ago, and although he generally abstains from open criticism of the Church and its leaders (at least around me and on facebook), he posted the following today, commenting on Glenn Beck's recent speech at Liberty University in which Beck apparently spoke about Joseph Smith's martyrdom. I've not listened to or read Beck's speech, as it is not the focus of this thread.
I don't mean to upbraid Beck for the commitment he displays to his faith, but his treatment of Joseph Smith in this address displays a gift for artful dishonesty that would earn Jay Carney's envy. Contrary to what Beck says in this speech, Joseph Smith wasn't arrested and sent to Carthage Jail for allegedly stealing a stove. At the time, Smith was the literal dictator of Nauvoo -- President of the LDS Church, Mayor and Chief Magistrate of the City Government, candidate for the US Presidency, and secretly crowned "Prophet, Priest and King over Israel on Earth." He was literally untouchable in Nauvoo, which is one reason why his Second Counselor William Law - a devout and faithful Mormon - published a dissident newspaper called the Nauvoo Expositor, which objected to Smith's dictatorial consolidation of power and his illicit practice of polygamy, which included an overture by Smith to Law's wife (her rejection eventually led to Law's excommunication for "apostasy").
The Nauvoo City Council, a body that was an instrument of Smith's will, "ordered" him to suppress the Expositor as a "public nuisance." A mob organized by Smith under color of "law" destroyed the printing press, prompting Law and his associates to flee in fear for their lives. This led to a warrant being issued for Smith's arrest -- and he responded by attempting to flee the jurisdiction, only to be shamed by his wife into returning and submitting to arrest.
Smith, his brother Hyrum, Willard Richards, and John Taylor were incarcerated at Carthage, where they were set upon by a masked mob. Joseph and Hyrum were murdered; John Taylor was shot, and his life may have been saved by a pocket watch that deflected a round that may have killed him.
Joseph Smith didn't die as a martyr; he had been smuggled a firearm that he quite properly used in an attempt to save his life and those of his friends. He was in jail because of his own violent and lawless acts, and those who had taken him into custody were criminally derelict in failing to protect him from mob violence until he could face trial for the charges against him.
I'm not very familiar with the events in question, but it seems my friend has taken the most damning possible interpretations of Joseph's conduct in Nauvoo. How can I respond in a cordial, intelligent manner? Are his conclusions valid (not necessarily correct, but reasonable)?
Here are a few things to consider. So, Glen Beck is a mormon ... So what. I remember him in the early 2000's. He was an opinionated hater. I suppose I have just violated one of my own rules by dissing him. I generally avoid people who make one sided arguments.
Yes , Joseph Smith was our first leader and a prophet. He also blew it a few times. Well so did David, Solomon and Moses. Anyone used by God does not have to be perfect.
And, forgetting the past history, consider what the church is today. By in large, the congregations of the church are loving, healing, safe places. Sure the church makes mistakes because it is people. Forget about Joseph Smith's past, and focus on your future. And this man is not your friend.
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I think there is a religious point, just haven't quite fathomed it yet.
One time I heard a famous philosopher, an athiest, whose name now escapes me, say that every successful story or movie follows the model of Jesus Christ in that there is a birth, a gradual building, a pinacle, then the death of a vision, and finally re-birth. Every writer I know, if he is aware of the model, uses it for the framework of his stories.
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Watched Divergent yesterday with my wife who is a fan of the book series, and also the Hunger Game series, am more excited about the upcoming How To Train A Dragon 2, but she is more sensitive to religious themes than I am.
Many people are frightened about the unfolding of present history, and perhaps rightly so. I just do not understand these post apololyptic movies, though I have watched "Divergent". Perhaps, more rightly so, they are a social commentary on our culture. We are so controlled and manipulated and have been for a long time. These days, it is the Media and Marketers who are doing the governing of the world. Anything for money, right?
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The Internet got me again! A friend sent me a YouTube link to a Mormon-related video and before I knew it, I was sucked into the YouTube vortex, finally landing at an interview with former BYU Professor Lynn Wilder. As many of you know, she has recently left the Church and written a book entitled "Unveiling Grace: The Story of How We Found Our Way out of the Mormon Church." In a nutshell, one of her sons returned from his mission in "apostasy" after reading through the Gospels of the NT and coming to the conclusion that we are saved by grace alone. He challenged the family to read the Gospels and before long, each of them had come to the same conclusion and eventually left the Church after 30 YEARS of faithful membership.
Now, assuming that she didn't want to throw away her BYU tenure to start watching porn or because McDonald's was adding a new line of frappacinos, her story is very interesting. And it made me wonder how an educated (and seemingly committed) Mormon could have been a member of our Church for 30 years and not have ever read the NT? Now, perhaps it can be explained by the fact that she was an adult convert and therefore, she never went through seminary. But it still makes me wonder -- do most members ever read the NT, or at least, the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?
And no, I'm not picking on Mormons. From my experience, most Protestants don't ever make it through the Bible either (and they only have TWO books to navigate through). However, that being said, many Protestant sermons will start with a passage relating to some Biblical episode and the pastor will spend the sermon (which may run as long as an hour ... or two if it's a black church) performing an exigesis of the text. As a result, over the years, a regular Protestant churchgoer should have a pretty good understanding of the most significant Biblical narratives, even if they think the Book of Genesis is an instruction manual for a Sega video game system.
I'm not sure that the structure of our church services would lead to a similar result. We simply don't teach in this style. That being said, perhaps that is the type of teaching that our young people sleep through in seminary each morning.
Also, we are regularly encouraged to perform our own scripture study. But is this something that most members really do? In the Newb household, it is something that we've been "meaning to get around to" but it hasn't happened in our first three years in the Church. That being said, I hear that Year Four is when things fall into place for most Mormons (or is it Year Five?).Of course, the more interesting question is whether there something in the NT Gospels that would lead members away from the Church or is the experience of the Wilder family just an anomaly? I must confess that when I read the NT, I get a slightly different view of the Savior than the one taught in Church teachings. That being said, I don't see a NT Savior that is INCOMPATIBLE with Church teachings. However, I'm a strange newb in this regard. So, assuming that I ever get my family into scripture study, is there anything in the NT that has been so "mistranslated" that I might want to skip over it or at least, post a "Read With Extreme Caution" sticker upon?
Only being Mormon for >3 years, I am not aware that Mormons believed in anything but the "grace" doctrine. Eph 2:8 is part of the path, and further along, in a different passage, we find that even the faith in Jesus the Christ is a gift of God. I would go so far as to say that if this is not part of Mormon doctrine, then I am not Mormon.
I witnessed the nagging uncertainty and insecurity of Muslims because they believe that their works are what save them, and even if I am disputed with on that, I have seen it in practice.
I am sorry for the woman who talked herself out of the church. If one is going to study the Bible, the Bom, and associated Mormon texts then it needs to be prayerful, and diligent. When I was first investigating that church, one of the things that I did that finally convinced me was that I went to youtube and looked up Anti-Mormon videos. It was quickly apparent how flimsy the doctrine of antis is.
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This topic came up in a somewhat unrelated thread so I though I'd start a new one.
At one point in unrighteousness does an LDS priesthood holder lose priesthood authority? I ask because I've heard some people explain the apostasy in terms of righteousness -- priesthood authority was removed because of the unrighteousness of those holding it. Since they lost the authority, they then could no longer pass this authority on.
Another question would be how does this affect LDS ordinances? What if a priesthood leader was secretly having a long term affair. Are those he baptized not really baptized? What about those he ordains to the priesthood? If they're not really ordained, then all of the ordinances they perform wouldn't really be ordinances either. And if the secret persists long enough, this could really explode exponentially.
The Catholic Church very early on declared it a heresy to believe that a Sacrament (ordinance) was invalid because of the unrighteousness of the priest or bishop.
What's the LDS take on this?
Thanks!
Though I lack a reasonable explanation, I have seen that Mormon priesthood authority is uneque in my experience. There are times when I wanted to argue and lost my peace until I listened. I was baptised 4 times, once in the River Jordan in Israel and it was not until a Mormon Missionary baptised me that I got the healing I had so sought.
I am not on very good terms with the church right now, but I can not argue with the authority.
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Catholic Church Cracks Down On Feminist Nuns
in General Discussions
Posted
What I have been hearing in the ward level lately is "Men and Women are equal, but with different jobs" That is totally acceptable to me. Most non feminist Mormon women say they already have plenty to do and do not want the men's job. It is the only thing that keeps the men from being complete slackers.