MiserereNobis

Bummer. You've passed the point of being a good troll to play with. Trolls have to operate within certain limits and once those lines are crossed people disengage. The juvenile vulgarity is just too much. It is amusing that you think copy and pasting some quotes is somehow revealing the dark heart of Mormonism and that this quotes are somehow going to surprise me and open my eyes to what the LDS on this board really think of me. I mean, I've been here for like 10 years. Don't you think this kinda stuff has already been discussed? But, I will thank you (kinda) for a thread that wasn't about LGBT+ stuff.

Hey, look at us not fighting over the claims of exclusivity!

That's not what LDS think of me. Are you really so dense that you think a few quotes from the 1800s describe what my LDS friends think of me? Are you so lacking in critical thinking skills? Or just thinking skills in general?

Some monks go on a liquid diet for Lent. Of course, the liquid they are drinking is beer: https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/35537/these-17th-century-monks-did-a-beer-fast-for-lent Ah, to be a German monk!

Ok, this makes sense. If He was a God in the pre-existence, but the rest of us are only Gods in embryo (Mark uses this term a lot, I assume it's a good metaphor), then He was further along the path of progression? Could it be my thoughts above? That He was further along in progression? I was going to ask if He was exalted prior to coming to Earth or after the resurrection, but I feel pretty sure that would be getting into speculative territory and I'm more interested on settled or at least mainly agreed upon answers. I bet @JLHPROF could pull up some cool quotes from the 1800s on these questions

Do you really have to resort to this? Oh yeah, I almost forgot that you're trolling. By the way, do you want to help me with my grading? It might be up your alley. See, Polonius believed that the way to find truth was through lies and deception. My students had to find and thoroughly explain an example of this in the play. The obvious one was how Polonius told his servant to lie about Laertes to see what Laertes was really up to. But there's also Polonius hiding behind an arras not once, but twice!

I know that harsh things were said about the Catholic Church by LDS leaders and believers in years past. In years past, most religions had harsh things to say about others, and often those harsh words escalated to violence, such as the Wars of the Reformation that I've mentioned. We've had discussions here over McConkie's Mormon Doctrine (I googled it to make sure I got the name right) and his claim that the Catholic Church was the church of the devil. I think the explanation is perfectly reasonable that the LDS church had some low-church protestant cultural baggage since most converts, especially in the beginning, were protestants. And it would be easy to find quotes from Catholic leaders and members saying disparaging things about LDS, too. I'm glad we're all moving beyond that. We can disagree, even on fundamental things like the nature of God and who has God's authority, without having to resort to vituperation. I don't believe LDS restorationist truth claims, just like you don't believe Catholic apostolic succession truth claims, but we pretty much all get along, and that's wonderful. I don't feel a need to have an explanation for what happened with Joseph Smith, because I honestly don't know, and it seems awfully short sighted to try to wave it away by saying he was under the influence of Satan or whatever (same with the Buddha or Muhammad or most founders of a religion). Smac quoted Daniel Peterson saying the following: I don't really go along with the bold. It's too black and white. I'm choosing to live in the grey of "I don't know what happened" and like I said, I don't feel a need to have to explain the origins of the LDS faith in order to remain Catholic. I've certainly felt edified intellectually, socially, and often spiritually by being on this board, and that works for me.

Bugger off and keep your trolling to the other thread. I'm having a sincere conversation here.

This is a dumb argument. Your evidence hardly supports your claim (which means you're having a problem with logic). For example: Catholics believe that only we hold the power from God, but we also recognize that other people who do not have Holy Orders can also be Christian. We believe protestants are Christian, but we'd still love to see them convert to Catholicism, just like LDS missionaries would love to see Catholics convert to being LDS. And the fact that you keep saying that all Mormons "deep down" believe one thing but then lie about it takes me back to one of my earliest posts. You are the stereotype of a disgruntled ex-Mormon.

Shoot, if you were rock star warriors, God should have sent you down in the 1600s to fight for the protestants! Alas, we lost England forever. Well, maybe not forever. Now that Charles is the head of the Church of England maybe some Brits will take a closer look at Catholicism

It says he was (fore)ordained to be the Savior. Did this give Him additional grace or will power (or whatever the proper LDS term would be) to remain sinless? I also see in note 1 on "Graded Intelligences" that Christ was among the best or exalted intelligences. Is this what allowed him to remain sinless, too? However, Satan is listed among those, too. I guess I'm trying to understand in the LDS beliefs if Christ had something extra that we don't have, beyond simple will power, to remain sinless. I look at all goodness coming from grace through Christ, so I'm just trying to see how that would apply to Him. Thanks for the reference!

So all the LDS who tell me I'm a Christian are two-faced hypocrites lying directly to my face? And of course you're the one willing to tell me the truth. I know because of your name!! (and yes, I know LDS have exclusive claims on the priesthood)

Catholics believe this about non-Catholics (except for the pesky schismatic Orthodox). Heck, we used to fight wars over it. We softened up, too, I guess, but it was before the internet. I see you're still using "we." Is this to strengthen your position that no one, not even you, can leave the cult?

As I understand the LDS position, there is no ontological difference between us and Jesus. We are all spirit children of Heavenly Father. How then was Jesus sinless but no other spirit child of Heavenly Father is? Was there a difference between Him and us in the pre-existence?

So then why are you doing it? Let's see, so I have to choose between believing you when you say this or believing all the LDS I've met who say good Catholics are good people. Hmmm, tough choice. "We"?? You're still in the cult?? Oh, and Catholics try to bring protestants and Orthodox back to Rome, but we still believe they are true Christians. It's not an either/or proposition.

I'm not complaining about you being on here. I'm saying that 1) your method is dumb and ineffective, so 2) you're either dumb or trolling. I took the charitable view that you are trolling and decided to play along because I'm bored and want to avoid grading papers. (hey, @The Nehor, you could probably word this with more wit than I, but I did imagine you saying something like this while I typed)

He's just trolling. I guess I'm enjoying feeding him because I'm administering the SAT and have nothing else to do (well, there is that homework about Polonius's epistemology, but man, it's easy for me to find other things to do when I've got a stack of papers to grade...)

Yet, 1) here you are trying to convince people even though you say it's impossible, and 2) LDS people leave their church all the time, so I guess it's not impossible. Dude, you need to chill out. You're the one who's acting like the crazy zealot here.

So? I obviously don't believe in Mormonism, so what do I care about their practice of the second anointing? You, on the other hand, are fitting quite neatly into the stereotype of a disgruntled ex-member. If you look at it strictly from a rhetorical standpoint, you're failing miserably in your attempts to convince anyone and are actually strengthening the LDS view of the weakness of ex members arguments against the LDS church. You are protesting too much, methinks.

Boy, you must love us Catholics when we baptize infants You're kinda acting the way you accuse LDS missionaries of acting. I'm teaching Hamlet to my honors sophomore classes, and last week we had a discussion about Queen Gertrude's response to the player queen's speech. Gertrude said, "the lady doth protest too much, methinks." It was cool seeing the kids come up with examples where someone goes on and on in excess about one topic because they're subconsciously trying to convince themselves of it. Even your name "Truth Teller" fits into this pattern.

Why use him as a starting point to this discussion? Couldn't the same point been brought up without using him? He is a highly divisive figure and not really known for his honesty or kindness. The messenger influences the message. Hence, ethos is one of the rhetorical appeals. I mean, I know this is Godwin's law and all, but I could start a discussion on vegetarianism and animal welfare by pointing out how Hitler described the gruesome deaths of animals in slaughterhouses as a way to persuade his dining mates to adopt a vegetarian diet. Is this true? Yes. Does it begin a discussion on vegetarianism and animal welfare? Yes. Is it effective? No, not at all. As a side note, are people of color allowed to have as many babies as they want, or is that just a Democratic ploy to replace the American electorate with leftists? As a second side note, Tucker Carlson has a picture in his office of himself and Jerry Garcia. *sigh*

I visited Auschwitz about 25 years ago. It was an incredibly reverent place for actions -- everyone walked slowly and spoke in hushed whispers. There might have been signs encouraging this reverence, but I don't remember them. The place was overwhelming. It was also an incredibly reverent place for the feeling of spiritual awe. I'm not going to say it was a surprise, because I really didn't know what to expect or how I was going to feel, but the site of the murder of one million people had been transformed into a place where I felt the presence of God. It's very hard to put into words. People brought flowers and candles and placed them on the remains of the crematoriums. There were hand-written prayers tied with ribbons. Everywhere I looked was the history of horror, but everywhere was also reverence, both internal and external. The sheer amount of hatred and evil that had occurred there over a space of 5 years is almost unimaginable, yet the same location was now like a holy place. I'm not really trying to make a point or to answer the OP directly, but that experience has stuck with me all these years. It was reverence of a type I really hadn't experienced before or since. I'm sorry I can't describe it better.

That's fantastic! I love classic style country (Willie Nelson just turned 90!). I can't really stand the country music on the radio, though. I love old timey and bluegrass, too, and can enjoy traditional bluegrass and jam-grass. Thanks for making music!

Of course out of all of this, this is what you and I respond to 😁

If you don’t mind, can you share more about your band? Type of music, etc.?