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Posts posted by MiserereNobis

  1. 23 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

    Could I preach my beliefs in your Mennonite congregation?

    Sometimes I wonder if you could preach your beliefs in your own sacrament meeting. 

    “Today’s first talk is by Brother Mark and is about relativism and the lack of objective truth. He is also going to extol the virtues of humanism. Oh, and he’s asked us to set up the projector so you can watch a video clip of some Rorty guy…”


  2. 19 minutes ago, bOObOO said:

    do believe our Father lives on an orb of some kind, probably a planet I think rather than a sun, or a moon, because there are not many other viable options.  On a ship, sometimes, maybe a really nice, big ship, but not likely where he would like to be forever.  Otherwise, if not living on something in space, then he is just floating around out there in space, constantly hovering somehow, rarely setting foot on any object.  He is a man, you know, with a body, and I believe he knows how to create planets that he would like to live on.  Maybe not in a house like you and me, maybe just in a nice, big cave with a really nice view of an ocean or a forest or maybe both.  Probably the kind of place where I would like to live with my wife when I become as perfect as he is.  With a lot of space around me for family when they come to visit.

    If I remember correctly, you also believe you’ll be doing laundry in heaven, right Ahab?

  3. 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

    in the movie “The Ten Commandments,” after the plagues and after Pharoah with his hosts have failed to apprehend the fleeing Israelites, Pharoah is obliged to acknowledge, “Moses’s god IS God.” 

    So let it be written, so let it be done.

  4. Would any LDS here feel uncomfortable buying a drink for a non-LDS friend? For example, you offer to pay for dinner for a group of friends. The non-LDS order some beer or wine to go with their dinner. How would you feel personally about paying for it?

    I'm not trying to make a point here one way or another. I'm just curious.

    I'm also curious how widespread in the LDS church is the belief that it is not sinful for non-LDS to drink alcohol. That kinda surprised me, but hey, I'll drink to that tonight! ;) 

  5. 8 minutes ago, JAHS said:

    This one didn't just cross the edge of controversy, it jumped over and beyond it to a point where most people will not recognize it as satire and will be offended by it. Others wo do recognize it as satire will see it as pushing an agenda under the guise of satire. 

    If people don't recognize it as satire and "fall for it," that's not the fault of the satire, especially if the satire is trying to point this exact thing out -- that these people don't get it.

    All satire pushes an agenda. An agenda-less satire wouldn't be funny because it wouldn't have a frame of reference from which to mock. It would be like trying to write a parody without anything to parody.

  6. 4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

    I think Michael Knowles succeeded rather well in that “better tack.”


    4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

    By the way, what is your favorite piece of classic satire? I’m rather partial to Jonathan Swift’s “A Modest Proposal.” And the symbolism in Orwell’s “Animal Farm” is largely satire. I’m struck by how timeless it is.

    I'm right with you there. I have my students write their own modest proposals about issues in the school system. Some of them are fantastic -- I send them along to the principal, ha.

    I'll add "Catch-22" to your list. I'm personally a fan of "A Clockwork Orange" (both book and movie), but it is a pretty dark satire of heavy issues, so I understand those who do not like it and/or are actively opposed to it.

  7. 3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

    I don’t disagree with you about satire. Throughout my life I’ve been an aficionado of satire. Even in my youth, I was a rather devoted reader of Mad Magazine, and it taught me to recognize and appreciate satire. 

    But I wonder what you think of Michael Knowles’s point in the video I linked to about truth being present even in a joke, and of my point about it thus coming across as malicious taunting. 

    I have no problem recognizing the chorus video as satire. It still strikes me as mean-spirited. Can you see how I might hold that view? 

    I agree that truth is often present in jokes. That's what makes humor work -- the joke and the truth are somehow incongruous. This is particularly apt with satire on social issues. I remember one satire that showed plans for a massive "abortion-plex" building. It included a nursery, "so the children the mother wants can be watched while she aborts the one she doesn't." Yikes! Yet... some truth.

    I agree that satire can be malicious taunting and can be mean-spirited, especially as it veers towards Juvenalian satire, like South Park. And I can see why you would hold that view about this satire. It is clearing mocking certain people and their beliefs. I'll add the flip side to what I said before: while good satire often crosses the line of what is appropriate, all satire that crosses that line is not necessarily good.

    I suppose my main point was that some of the push back against the song didn't seem to realize that it was satire and took it at face value, which actually helped the satire prove its point. A better tack would have been to attack it as satire that misconstrued the position it was satirizing, rather than to say that the gay agenda just admitted it is actually coming for your children (or the variations on that, such as this is an attack on parenting, etc.).

  8. 34 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

    Addiction is the perfect tool of Satan. After 12 years serving in the LDS Family Services Addiction Recovery Program, I find it’s stories like this that made it all worthwhile. Sadly, this is the rare exception rather than the rule. I despise addiction (not addicts) and those who facilitate it. Not very Christian of me, I know. 

    I thought of you when I read the OP. 

  9. 20 hours ago, JAHS said:

    Thought this would be good for a laugh:

    Church should address aerial phenomena, UFOs

    I am writing this letter in response to the June 4 article on the report regarding unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP) and unidentified flying objects (UFOs). I want to write from the perspective of a Christian minister on this subject because I feel it has been a topic that has not been addressed to a great extent in the church at large.

    Ever since the New York Times revealed the existence of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) in December 2017, the manner of discussion on the subject has taken on a new dimension. From my experiences, it seems that many Christians do not like talking about these occurrences.

    In my research on UAP and UFOs, the Christian perspective is very diverse. The Christian author and apologist C.S. Lewis wrote an article called “Religion and Rocketry” where he examined the question on whether outer space contained other fallen beings and the possibility that Jesus Christ manifested in different forms on different worlds to be their redeemer.

    Dr. Walter Martin once spoke of the possibility of UFOs being piloted by spiritual entities such as demons or fallen angels from another dimension. Other ministers believe in the existence of extraterrestrial life and examine the exotheological possibilities of how we should respond as the Church of Jesus Christ.

    The issue of UAPs and UFOs is one of the most important in the human narrative. Are these profound craft that defy all the laws of physics piloted by extraterrestrials from another world? Are these craft an advent of technology held by a terrestrial foreign power? Are these craft the product of another dimension? The time has come for the Church of Jesus Christ to address this question.

    As a minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I am calling for all Christian ministers to think biblically and critically about this very profound question. No longer be afraid to discuss this subject with those in your congregations that may have questions regarding what is going on in the skies.

    In a world that has become filled with fear and misinformation, we must be the light and peace of Jesus Christ by showing his undying love to everyone in all things.

    The Rev. Justin Searls

    So is this perhaps what really happened?


    Back in 2014, the Pope said that we'd baptize aliens if they showed up and asked :)


  10. 12 hours ago, Peacefully said:

    Same here! Shelley was my favorite, but I couldn’t even quote one line now. Maybe I’ll get back to those tortured British poets when I retire:)

    I love Shelley, too!  Good ol’ Percy Bysshe (great name for a Basset Hound). 

    How about the opening lines of “Mont Blanc” (appeals to the philosopher and mystic in me): “The everlasting universe of things / Flows through the mind and rolls its rapid waves, / Now dark—now glittering—now reflecting gloom— / Now lending splendour, where from secret springs / The source of human thought its tribute brings / Of waters—“

    Beautiful 😊

  11. 5 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

    Don’t be overly concerned or take the criticism of these cranky unbelievers personally. If prophets like Moses, Nephi and Peter were ever to engage these same unbelievers in attempted dialogue, I can assure you that they would be doubly and even triply annoyed. For these former believers who have left the restored Church of Christ but just can’t seem leave it alone, any defense of the faith on a discussion board that’s supposedly devoted to a respectful discussion of the religion of the Latter-day Saints is an outrage and an affront. The arrogance of these would-be destroyers of faith and testimony is only matched by their presumptuousness.

    Are you calling @Nemesis an arrogant cranky unbeliever and would be destroyer of faith? Because he/she is the one who is doing the banning.

  12. 9 hours ago, sunstoned said:

    Thank you.  This is one of my pet peeves.  I think I got it from Scott.

    I got it from one of my philosophy professors whose focus was on logic. Boy, he sure did hate the misuse of begging the questions.

    50 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

    Not sure if you are referring to English-language poetry or more specifically to British poetry, but I love the latter. I received my bachelor’s degree in English with an emphasis on British lit. 

    Me, too! (with a double major in philosophy). I zeroed in on the British Romantics. What a wonderful and zany bunch of poets!

  13. 10 hours ago, Calm said:

    It helped to keep me out of a very negative thought loop. I start panicking and wondering how much more control I am going to lose and what happens if I get so out of it I can’t call for help

    From the Grateful Dead song “Franklin’s Tower”: “If you get confused just listen to the music play!” 😊

  14. From the article:


    His plan is in direct opposition to the family proclamation. It is an insidious attempt to destroy the nuclear family and God’s moral values.

    From the LDS point-of-view (doctrinally and/or culturally), is the nuclear family God's ideal view of a family?

    I ask because I live in an area that definitely focuses on the extended family. Many families have multi-generational homes, and some include aunts/uncles/cousins, too. This was much more prevalent 50 years ago, but is still quite obvious.

    (I live in Mesilla, in southern NM. My town was originally on the Mexican side of the US-Mexico border after the Mexican American war and took in all the people around who didn't want to be Americans. It became part of America after the Gadsden purchase. I like to point this fact out when people complain about Mexican flags being flown in places in America. There's always Mexican flags around here and Cinco de Mayo is a HUGE festival. But hey, we were in Mexico before the US tried to take us in a war of aggression and then bought us out, ha.)

    I'm sure there are other cultures around the world that place higher value on extended families than nuclear families.

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