Peppermint Patty

I have no idea as to why any living adult memebrer of the Church doesn't know about polygamy. D&C 132 has been on our books for better than 100 years now.

I'm pretty sure most LDS are aware of polygamy being practiced in the past. I'm pretty sure most LDS are not aware of the details, which can be troublesome for many. I'm still having some heartburn over letters, that I read years ago, that Joseph Smith wrote to several women requesting that they enter into marriage with Joseph.

http://wiki.answers....itary_is_Mormon

Since LDS are about 1.7% of US population, we are close to being fully represented in the military.

That is a very interesting statistic. Thank you for sharing. I would also think that LDS in other countries where military service is not mandatory, would also show us as being fully represented. The LDS teaching of being loyal and patriotic to one's country has helped our missionaries gain entry into more than one country in the past.

Lately, I've been wondering how the landscape of the church might look in a few years due to the influx of sister missionaries. I think this influx will have an impact on the already widening gender gap in the church. More sister missionaries could mean more female converts than men.

It's been my experience that there are, at least, more active women than men. Some studies have shown the same, http://www.sltrib.co...mormon.html.csp

The report, "Mormons in the United States 1990-2008: Socio-Demographic Trends and Regional Differences," released Wednesday by Trinity College in Hartford, Conn., found that 60 percent of Utah Mormons are women, up from 52.5 percent two decades ago.

The education gap is also widening, http://www.deseretne...sis.html?pg=all

For every 100 women who earn a bachelor's degree, only 73 men earn one. Women outnumber men obtaining master's degrees by more than 30 percent.

These trends are a little discomforting to me. This can't be good for LDS families. Are most women going to be the primary breadwinners in the typical family in a few years? What can be done to reverse these trends and encourage young men to pursue their educations and stay in the church? Will it be the norm for many LDS women to not be able to marry in the faith, due to the gender gap?

This is to me, when just two people are involved, an intimate experience....it would be like kissing...only worse...on the first date. Maybe later...much later when engaged or at least almost, when both had decided that there was a great possibility of this leading to marriage.

Exactly.

Let's see the time frame given the dates provided by Palmer and from when this exmormon conference were

http://exmormonfound...erence2012.html

Oct 19-21-he broke this story at this conference

he says that the first meeting was on one website was Oct. 3 and on another site it says Oct. 23

"In mid-October 2012, a returned LDS Mission President contacted me to arrange a meeting. Several days later, he called again and said that a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy also wished to attend" Mid Oct. sounds like you know the middle, like the 15th or something, or just days before this exmo conf. I don't know about anyone else but how could he break a story a few days before he first heard it?

"We first met on Tuesday, October 3, 2012 " who? Palmer and the GA? the 3rd was just a few days before conference and I would imagine the GA was kinda busy

To me the dates are all goofed up, how can he first have met the GA on Oct.23 but break the story a few days before? if he met on Oct. 3, then why does he say he first met in mid Oct.? Mid Oct. isn't the 3rd

FWIW, Oct. 3, 2012 wasn't even a tuesday it was a Wednesday

Nice detective work, Duncan!

It looks like Grant would have gotten away with it, if it hadn't been for you meddling kids (that's a reference to Scooby Doo in case you are younger than 25).

This story is so ridiculous. The 12 Apostles all being bought for 1 million dollars? This is so preposterous, it reminds me of:

But now I am called the ridiculous one... Have I suddenly entered an alternate universe?

Mike, I've been trying to follow the various arguments, and I also feel like I've entered the:

You are right! And if its only notable effect was to make 'whiney women" happy, that alone might be a good reason. It wouldn't be bad in my book.

Just to be fair, behind every "whiney woman" you can usually find a "whiney man".

Oh good. Now I can be annoyed at a woman when the closing prayer goes too long.

Hilarious!

Her prayer was actually much shorter than the opening prayer. So, I imagine we will still be stuck just being annoyed at the men's prayers.

I wonder on what basis she believes this? Are there some statistics I don't know about that show that male priesthood holders are more likely to remain active than women and non priesthood holder males? The survey she cites doesn't really address this, 'gender issues' could be many things and I seriously doubt tons of women are clamouring for heavier callings, more meetings and additional responsibility at church!

Yes, I would like to know as well. The article brings up several questions.

Ellen,

You will find that many Mormons enjoy the music of Queen, ZZ Top, Lady Gaga and many other artists in many genres. I commend you on your self-control when it comes to watching movies. Don't be too surprised when you happen to meet many good LDS that have no problem watching certain PG13, or R rated movies.

We come in all shapes and sizes.

From the article: http://www.sltrib.co...ch-lds.html.csp

Though the number of Ordain Women profiles is relatively small — about two dozen so far — the 2-week-old website has garnered more than 100,000 page views, Kelly said, and her local LDS leaders, male and female, have been supportive of her.

"We sustain the prophet and the Quorum of Twelve Apostles and ask them to prayerfully consider this change," she said. "We believe that what we are doing demonstrates our faith in the gospel."

Opening up the priesthood "would change the way Mormon women see themselves and live their lives," Kelly said. "It would be a way they can invest in and improve the church as an institution."

Besides that, she views female ordination as helping the church hold on to its young women.

Kelly points to a 2011 self-reported survey of about 3,000 Mormons who no longer believe in the church that found 63 percent of all women and 70 percent of single women cited gender issues as being the primary reason for their loss of faith.

So, a question about the 'Ordain Women' site. I'm curious, does anyone know who is behind it?

It looks like the person behind this is Kate Kelly:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56096212-78/women-priesthood-church-lds.html.csp

I don't have a comment, but I think everyone should read this again:

I believe God gives us the "tender mercies" not because they are important or because he is a micromanager, but because knowing he is there through the little blessings helps us get through the big stuff where the blessings must be delayed for whatever reason...perhaps to protect our agency or someone else's, perhaps because we need to learn a lesson, perhaps for a million important reasons God can't step in as he would like to make everything work for us...... If we haven't taken the time to be aware of the tender mercies, then when the hardship comes, we will be tossed about without an anchor to keep us steady, but we must not allow ourselves to be convinced that because God helps us in somethings, he will step in and solve all of our problems. If he did that, we would remain children forever.

Have you heard The Letter Black or Skillet?

Okay, I can admit when I'm wrong. I just listened to some of Skillet for the first time.

They are actually pretty good.

Christians can still listen to Skillet.

Things Christians Should Stop Playing:

Christian rock and Christian rap.

Duncan,

Is that really you?!

You have a Gerard Butler kind of vibe going for you. If you're ever in Utah, I have a niece I would like to set you up with.

I don't want to derail any further, so good luck to Dr. Hamblin. Thanks for all of your hard work and long hours.

And if one's faith is open to change, if one is even willing to reject what he has believed is true in the past...such as willing to put his faith up to the test and put it aside if it is found wanting, is that then scholarship? And how would this type of writing look different than that of a faith that is locked in beyond any change if they were discussing the same thing?

If one holds a significant scientific position on faith that the universe works a certain way without final proof that it does (say a certain belief that quantum mechanics does not describe reality), does that render the rest of his scientific work apologetic? What about his efforts to demonstrate his position in that one case correct?

Cal,

I don't have a comment other than to tell you that sometimes you say the most deeply profound things that I've been wanting to write, but have been unable to articulate.

Thank you.

+1

Jimguy,

I know how you feel. I think feeling abandoned or misguided by the Lord is one of the hardest things that people experience in life.

I've had times in my life where I've felt promptings and following those promptings have led to less than desirable results. I've felt alone and betrayed.

But I can honestly say that with years of hindsight, I've been a better person because of those trials and experiences. I've also come to trust in the Lord and have patient faith in Him and the direction He is leading me.

I would like to recommend a book to you called The Simeon Solution. It really helped me understand the importance of perspective and patience.

God bless and good luck to you.

I thought it was already well known who Scratch is. Chino Blanco or some such. I seem to recall reading that somewhere.

How did this Chino Blanco get a copy of this article? Was he employed with the MI at one time? Now that everyone has a copy of the article is the MI going to publish it soon?

It sounds like the MI better hurry or it will be too late.

But the idea that Grant Palmer's Insider's View of Mormon Origins is an "apologetic" book has to be, by far, the funniest thing I've read in weeks and weeks.

Daniel,

If you're being honest and that is really the funniest thing you've heard in weeks, it sounds like you need some humor in your life and fast!

Might I suggest renting "What About Bob" on Netflix. If you haven't watched it before, you'll thank me.

I have great respect for the Maxwell Institute and for the new Mormon Interpreter. One of my husband's former missionary companions and best friends is Daniel Oswald, who is on the Board of Directors at the Interpreter. He is a great man.

I know Mr. Bradford. He is a great man.

These two institutes are filled with great people who are doing good things for the Kingdom. The Church is at a point in its history that there is plenty of room for both to flourish.

I guess it saddens me a little to see some people here disparage either institute.

Anyone else here working on improving their fitness lately? I've recently been trying to pack on some muscle, and I've ordered P90X to help me achieve

I've been doing P90X for a couple of months now. It is not a fun work out regime, but I am starting to see results.

Good luck and keep it up!

I was one of those who was summarily given the boot from the Maxwell Institute. I was told by one of the Young Turks now in favor that my work was essentially worthless. It has, he said, merely had an appearance of scholarship but not the substance that genuine scholar appreciate. This came from someone who could, of course, be right, but I note that he has not a very extensive publication record and only one done with David Paulson when a student assistant at BYU that sustains and defends the Kingdom. I don't think that even Kish would, at least in one of his more thoughtful and less polemical moments, would agree with his harsh verdict on my scholarship.

I have been, of course, aware that my volunteer service with the Foundation of Ancient Research and Mormon Studies/Maxwell Institute would eventually come to an end. In addition, it has always been obvious to me that others have far more intellectual fire-power than I have ever have had. But I gave my best effort.

I did not, however, ever anticipate that my previously joyful association with the Maxwell Institute would end the way it did, especially with leaks, and hence wild rumors, unfounded gossip and so forth, all damaging to Elder Maxwell's name. All of this has been for me very painful. One reason is that I loved Elder Maxwell. I first go to know him when I entered university in 1950. He was, even then, a truly remarkable model of a Saint for kid just entering university. I was therefore pleased to honor his name as well as I could with what I wrote and edited.

The current director of the Maxwell Institute was once my student. I have known him and we have remained in constant contact for well over fifty years. He has been a very close friend. And now I wonder if Carl Griffin and Morgan Davis speak for my old and dear friend. This is a question that gnaws on me. I very much value friendship.

Petty quarrels are part of the very common ugly side of university life. Those at all familiar with universities will know exactly what I mean. But for the most part, except for the weird spying on the faculty by the then President of BYU that took place soon after I first arrived, we have been for the most part above such reprehensible things–that is, until this recent meltdown at the Maxwell Institute, of all places.

I have always been ready to move on. I was, however, simply stunned by these recent events. I have not recovered from the profound stress all of this mess has placed on a very long and valued friendship. And especially since someone other than my old and dear friend, who directs the Institute, now speak for the Institute at least in public.

I may have been given the boot, but I have not been silenced. A Latin motto of part of the old Midgleys in Yorkshire is Resurgam--I am back, this time with Interpreter, which is actually in virtually all ways better than the old and now cancelled Review. My roll with this new venture is much less than it was with the Review because we now have a host of volunteers all anxious to rescue the original mission of the Institute from the vague course change that has been announced..

Louis,

Thanks for your heartfelt post. I really appreciated it and it helps me understand better why emotions run so high on this topic.

+1

????

Daniel,

I meant that it's surprising Mr. Bradford hasn't always been given his deserved appreciation, acknowledgement and gratitude for all of his hard work and efforts on behalf of the Maxwell Institute, and for being anxiously engaged in furthering the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

It's even more surprising and disappointing when one considers all the criticism he has recieved and where the criticism has come from. It's important to remember we all are on the same team and we all have the same goal.