Peppermint Patty

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Some claim homosexuality is incurable, therefore they seek to be considered a legitimate minority group protected by law. We should not be deceived by these false rationalizations. 

and

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Professionals do not agree on the causes of homosexual behavior. However, most professional research supports the view that homosexual behavior is learned, and is influenced by unhealthy emotional development in early childhood. This explanation is most consistent with what the Lord has revealed concerning the eternal nature of man as the offspring of divine parents. Although there are probably many factors affecting the development of homosexuality, the following elements appear quite consistently:   1. Disturbed Family Background   2. Poor Relationship with Peers   3. Unhealthy Sexual Attitudes  4. Early HomosexuaI Experience

This leaked handbook is going to get a lot of traction in the local, national and international media in the next few days. 

Also, am I the only one who thought the Newsweek article was a little strange because John Dehlin stood up for the Church and all the progress they've made during the last decade? John Dehlin certainly didn't seem like an embittered and angry apostate.

5 hours ago, churchistrue said:

Put in your n-gram here.  I put in “demands of justice”.   I understand there are a handful of phrases and grammar clauses that are real head scratchers, in terms of being popular in EModE and dead in Joseph’s day (especially “save it be” and “save it were”–very puzzling!).  But on the flip side, you have to account for literally hundreds of phrases in the Book of Mormon that were popular in the early 1800’s that don’t seem to be used in the EModE period.

Thanks for this intersting post. I don't know if I'm using the Historical Trend Viewer correctly, but when I type in the n-gram "save it be" or "save it were" it looks like they were both frequently used in Joseph Smith's time?

These podcasts are topnotch. I am enjoying them so much. I don't think anyone inside or outside the church is making podcasts of this quality and educational value. No offense to anyone who is a podcaster, but these are the benchmark of Mormon podcasts.

"The Parables of Jesus, With Amy-Jill Levine" was amazing  https://mi.byu.edu/mip-28-levine/

If you are the type of person who only listens to a couple of podcasts a year, listen to two of Blair's podcasts.

Blair,

Thank you so much for this podcast. I loved it.

6 hours ago, rongo said:

 

What others among the "several that you could list" can you list, Patty?  

Rongo,

Here are a few more. 

-Fawn Brodie discussed, and was one of the first to address the many different accounts of  the First Vision.

Over sixty years later the Church acknowledged and published an essay on this very subject: https://www.lds.org/topics/first-vision-accounts?lang=eng&old=true

-Fawn Brodie discussed the Book of Abraham and discussed how Joseph did not correctly translate.

Over sixty years later the Church changed the heading from "A translation from some Egyptian Papyri that came into the hands of Joseph Smith.." to "An inspired translation of the writings of Abraham." And, the Church has now acknowledged the same and published an essay on this very subject:  https://www.lds.org/topics/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng&old=true

-Fawn Brodie was one of the first to discuss the numerous wives of Joseph Smith and the sexual aspect of many of these relationships.

Over sixty years later the Church acknowledged Joseph Smith had as many as 40 wives, one as young as 14, and and published an essay on this very subject: https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng&old=true 

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/11/11/363324816/mormon-church-admits-founder-joseph-smith-had-up-to-40-wives

It does seem to indicate the number of missionaries has declined to around 71,000 from over 74,000.

If this is true I wonder when and what the number will finally bottom out at?

Scott Lloyd, any information?

4 hours ago, rockpond said:

At 41:58 Ballard tells the crowd that one cannot truly celebrate Christmas without expressing gratitude for Joseph Smith.

Maybe there's more to the whole "Merry Smithmas" than we previously thought.

Scott, this might be helpful:

35 minutes ago, cinepro said:

I'm just eyeballing it, but what's interesting is that if you continue the graph from the growth rate in the 1990s, before the dip in 2001, it looks like it would grow to around 75,000.

 

 

http://roundelmike.com/2015/04/lds-mormon-church-statistics-2015/

 

This is an interesting graph. If I'm reading it right, it looks like we might have had a couple of thousand more missionaries than now if we would've left things the way they were and didn't lower the ages.

Also, I've heard although I don't know how to verify that the majority of the increase in numbers is from Sister Missionaries.  I would love to see if anyone has the information about how many Sisters are currently serving.

I've certainly seen a cultural shift in the last few years about encouraging Sisters to serve. My daughter is getting that "encouragement" right now. When I was growing up, nobody once asked me if I was ever going to serve a mission. It's completely different now with our young women.

3 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

That has already been documented as a mistake and the church has admitted it.  Where have you been?

CFR

6 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

So God inspired Joseph Smith to lie?

I think God inspired Joseph Smith to write "scripture."

The Bible was never meant to be taken as a completely historical or literal account by it's writers, but rather as an amalgamation of folk traditions, symbolism, parables, lessons, teachings and warnings.  The ancient Hebrews understood this about scripture.

It must be remembered that scripture (in most world religions) is primarily a book of religion, a guide to faith, and not a book of history or science.

The BoM is no different in that it contains all sorts of literary genre, which are used to teach about the relationship between God and man.

Just like the Bible, the BoM is a religious book, not a completely historical document, which is readily apparent from numerous parts in both content and context.

6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

 For all we know it may have already done so by dissuading people in gay marriages to demand baby blessings or baptism for the children in their custody. 

If this policy was crafted to dissuade people from wanting baby blessings or wanting children in their custody to be baptized, then I'm pretty sure the Savior would take issue.

15 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

It's not you. It's me.

John,

Good decision. From what I've read, you were definitely in an abusive relationship.

23 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

I wonder how they deal with Moroni.  How does a real Moroni come from a non-historical book?

Probably the same way they deal with Noah, Job or any of the other countless non-historical stories in our scriptures.

2 hours ago, theplains said:

If the Book of Mormon is non-historical, much of what is printed in LDS Church manuals and spoken of in Conferences
will have to be disavowed.  Any book can be considered to have 'real power' if it changes one's life; even one that speaks
of the lost city of Atlantis or aliens helping to build the great pyramids of Egypt.

Jim

Jim, I don't know if much would have to be disavowed. Just look at the Book of Abraham for examples and parallels. The main difference between the BoA and the BoM is that we have the papyri, but we no longer have the plates.  I don't think it's too much of a stretch to suggest the plates could have served as sort of a catalyst for inspiration to Joseph much the same way the papyri did for the BoA.  You seldom see members of the Church today claiming that the BoA is exactly what Joseph claimed it was, like they do with the BoM. This wasn't the case for a large part of our history.

Also, I think many members don't feel a necessity that they must believe in a historical BoM.  For many, they don't need an alternative explanation of how the BoM came to be.  Many just have faith that it's God's word, and don't worry or care if it's historical or not. I've seen this with many members, and I think it's growing.

6 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

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Those who view the Book of Mormon as "inspired fiction" still must deal with the hard fact that their position is not logically coherent, as the book itself does not purport to be fictional and the account of its coming forth is not presented as fiction.

Furthermore, I can't conceive anyone ever being allowed to propound an "inspired fiction" theory in any sort of official Church venue. It is, quite simply, at odds with the position of the Church.

 

If I were teaching, say, a Sunday School gospel doctrine class (which I have done in the past for many years), I would not abide advocacy in my classroom of any notion that the Book of Mormon is anything other than what it purports to be.

Sorry if that makes me sound intolerant or narrow to you, but as a Sunday School teacher, I would be committed to upholding the official teachings of the Church.

Scott,

Asserting a historical view of the BoM from a believing perspective might be difficult to understand for some, because of the way they define believing and faithful.  I think Mormons who have an nonhistorical view do not  approach the issue from the perspective as many others define it. In the same way that someone who grows up believing that the earth is 6000 years old, blacks were less valiant, the American Indians were the literal descendants or that there was a literal flood and that Noah's ark really existed but then learns scientific and historical information and has to construct a new narrative and self-understanding about these stories in the Bible, many Mormons have come to realize that the Book of Mormon history is of a similar character.

The Church would not fail if it gave up BoM historicity or developed new approaches to scripture.  No religion has ever stayed completely pure to its founder's ideals, including our Church. Just look at all the changes in the last few years with the Book of Abraham, Essays and the Book of Mormon Introduction Page.  All religions develop over time, especially if the religion truly belongs to God and the community.  Succesful and vibrant religions as a whole must also live in the present to shape itself in ways consistent with evolving and traditional beliefs, needs and structures.

I hope this made sense.

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Now we can all join hands and wipe out Meldrum and his foul ilk.

Don't forget about those evil Malay Peninsula folks, too.  And those disreputable Baja Peninsula theory guys should be wiped out also.

27 minutes ago, JAHS said:

There are many in the Community of Christ who have taken this non-historical position, although they do still regard it as scripture.

 

Interesting. I did not know that at all. Is this a recent development?