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Posts posted by boblloyd91

  1. There is a movie that came out this past week called Remembering Heaven. It was put together by Sarah Hinze who researches pre birth experiences. My wife and I watched it yesterday and it was very enjoyable. It mixed the philosophy behind it with the history of how it became a heresy with people's personal experiences. Along with those experiencing it, Dr. Teryl Givens and Dr. Dan Peterson were interviewed. Check it out!

  2. 2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

    This could end soon. At least the threat. The fallout will trigger a lot more situations.

    The strikes are beginning in Russia. Reports are that the Russian army units are virtually out of food and fuel and there is no logistical support network to get more to the front. I am hearing that Sunday or Monday should be the breaking point. Then a lot of retreats and mass surrenders. Ukraine is already retaking ground. Russia is trying to hold about morale showing they are shipping antiquated tanks from the Far East but it will be four or five days at least before they arrive and I doubt they have what they need to use them in any case. New planes have arrived in Ukraine and the air war is shifting. Ukraine might have numerical superiority in the air and I can’t believe I am saying that.

    There were ceasefires for humanitarian reasons but they have largely broken down due to violations. Most of these are attributed to the Russians but this is probably more due to the confusion and lack of communication and not deliberate action.

    Visa and Mastercard just cut off all transactions in Russia. A lot of panic buying in Russia.

    This is interesting news. I dare say even hopeful news.

  3. 9 hours ago, kimpearson said:

    I think the fact that this is the second post recently about John Dehlin shows that say what you want, John's popularity is growing.  The test will be time.  Does anyone even really hear much anymore about Denver Snuffer, Kate Kelly?  They are still out there but seem to be followed only by their ardent believers.  In 5 years, will we even care about John Dehlin.  John can go after the Church but the modern Church has been around for almost 200 years and isn't going to disappear.  The Church has something people continue to want.  Does John Dehlin have something people will continue to want?  Only time can answer that question. 

    I definitely think we're seeing some major societal changes in regards to how people see spiritual truth claims, which is why we're hearing a lot more about people leaving the church. Like you said though, there are certain things that the church provides that aren't easily replicated (what those are depends on the person's interpretation). I will also be interested to see how things evolve over the years

  4. 53 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

    I didn't watch the speaker and I only skimmed a bit here and there on the thread, but I do want to address the "pretending church" comment. Obviously, I think he's wrong, but I'm not personally offended by it. I think it's because it comes from such a place of ignorance that it just doesn't affect me. I know that I am not pretending church. If he came and spent a day at the monastery with me he would know the monks aren't pretending church, either.

    Never ascribe to malice that which can be ascribed to ignorance.

    In this case, I think he's just ignorant.

    If someone who knew me accused me of pretending church, that would probably be a different matter, though, because the accusation wouldn't come from ignorance since they know me.

    Also on a somewhat related note, as a Catholic, I have a hard time getting upset with the exclusive "only true church" claims of your church, as some do. I mean, we make those claims, too. You don't accept our baptism, and we don't accept yours. You claim apostasy, which excludes us, but we claim apostolic succession, which excludes you.

    Anyways, carry on :) 


    This is why it always has interests me that in general, Catholics and Latter Day Saints seem to often get along in religious discussions. I've seen it not just here but in other venues as well. It's ironic because like you said, our faith claims are directly opposed to each other 

  5. 6 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

    You needn't be concerned with offending anyone here.  There are a number of non-LDS contributors to this board, and they have been very welcome, their perspectives often very helpful to the more insular among us.

    What does concern me both in and outside the LDS community is the major blindspot in recognizing the important contributions of the Jews -- past and present.  How odd that, when Latter-day Saints hear the phrase "gathering of Israel," they think only of themselves, as though the Jews did not even exist.

    I think unfortunately we've inherited a bit too much from the early American protestant culture that we came out from, and this is one of those things 

  6. 1 hour ago, Paloma said:

    I just realized that my post may sound as if I'm failing to recognize the existence and distinctives of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

    And that's not what I intended at all.  In fact, I'm particularly interested in hearing the Latter-day Saint perspective.  

    I see us as having a common Christian history, and am writing in that vein, but I don't mean to collapse our differences.  I know they're significant and substantial.  I simply want to see if we do have common ground when it comes to recognizing and appreciating Christian believers who have paved the way for our own faith journeys today.

    I think this is a good topic to explore, that being the things we can learn from people who found answers to their questions, and not only the answers but the journey to the answers have been a source of comfort and inspiration to me

  7. Hey while I'm thinking about it, something that I've wondered is how demographics might be a factor in a resurgence in religion in the future. It seems that people who are atheistic and secular have few if any children, whereas conservative religious types have families. I know that Rod Dreher recently noted this on his blog. And of course, LDS are known for large families. This is one possible outcome in regards to what things will look like in the years to come 

  8. 4 hours ago, SkyRock said:

    When the church is one of two denominations that is still growing while every other is declining, the church is overcoming huge headwinds.  

    I was in a recent training with our mission president who said that the number of people taught and number brought to church in our mission in the same ad 5 years ago, but the baptism have fallen 50%, with the decline very noticeable pre Covid.  

    He noted that one of the changes during that time period was that missions were no longer tracking members at discussions.   In his research into this mission, he found that member participation in discussions dropped off once the number no longer reported to SLC.

    It is not necessarily causation but definitely correlation.

    Out of curiosity which other denomination is still growing?

  9. 8 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

    For the last couple of nights I have lost sleep and peace of mind over a personal situation. The result of lost sleep though gave me the opportunity to be in prayer for this situation. This morning, after a night of wakefulness and intense prayer for God's mercy, I found that the situation that was causing so much angst was greatly improved and had changed through the most unexpected and extraordinary way. It is not fully resolved, but through this, the hope is that it can be.  I just wanted to share with anyone how thankful I am, and that prayer does change things, especially when we are praying within the will of God. 

    Has anyone else experienced something like this? 

    I live in small town Utah and we had our town well start to malfunction this last fall. We didn't get any water for a night. I remember how stressed I was and couldn't sleep, so I started reviewing hymns, scriptures etc. throughout the night. Luckily the main issues were fixed, though some fine tuning still needs to be done. Because I have OCD I still have a powerful nagging fear of suddenly not having any running water, but I have noticed in my worries my prayer life has been much more focused and frequent, as I think more about spiritual things each night. I now pray both on my morning walks and drive to work. I have noticed in alot of ways even though my worries haven't totally gone, I find myself less stressed about many things. I think thinking more about the Savior each night is something that has affected me for the better.

  10. On 1/18/2022 at 3:37 AM, Navidad said:

    Let me begin by expressing my admiration for the Pentecostals, their commitment and ability to adapt and learn while growing. My question is this, is there any kind of an underground or below the radar Pentecostal movement or interest in the LDS Church? My limited experience with the LDS church is that it in some ways prides itself in not having formalized doctrinal structures, but at the same time desires to keep a tight control on doctrine! Does that make sense?

    My experience and knowledge is that Pentecostalism thrives in a restorational environment more than in a "must maintain the status quo, especially doctrinally" environment. At any rate,are there any Pentecostalism seeds growing in the modern LDS church. I say modern, because it seems evident that such seeds were there in the early LDS church in a different kind of Pentecostalism than today's. I am not sure that sentence made sense. Thanks for your thoughts. Those of you who are not in the US, what are your thoughts about modern Pentecostalism being of interest in the modern LDS church?

    I think these are good questions. I know that if you were to look at the experiences of the early church you would see numerous instances of the charismatic gifts of the spirit, and they would be talked about frequently. As others have mentioned, although these are still reported, they aren't discussed. There was an apostle named Elder Boyd K. Packer who gave a talk about keeping spiritual experiences sacred and close to the heart, and discouraged frequent telling of these stories. I don't know if this was a major reason that we don't freely share spiritual experiences like we used to but it could be. To be sure, you don't have to look very far to find stories of people who still feel that God is in their life. I was reading a story yesterday in the new issue of the Liahona of a woman in Brazil who talked about hearing an audible voice tell her to help someone who she later found out was praying for help. 

    As far as attitudes towards modern Pentecostalism and the LDS church, I'd say it's mostly negative, not necessarily on our end, but Pentecostals are associated with the larger umbrella of Evangelicalism, which has historically been extremely hostile to the LDS faith. Anecdotally I think LDS either aren't aware of them, or if they are they feel that the Pentecostal churches they attended were silly at best or creepy at worst. So I don't think there's much goodwill on either side. I know that  their legitimacy took a big hit when some of their prominent leaders prophesied of Trump's victory in 2020, and when this failed they continued to prophesy he would be reinstated within the year.  

  11. 4 hours ago, poptart said:

    Here's the thing, how do the established Mormons in Zion feel about that?  Considering the likes of DeZnat seems to be getting popular in places as well as the older, wealthier ones who can trace their roots back to the pioneers grow resentful of transplants plus their privilege being called out by LDS leadership, we'll see how that goes.  I know a lot of the Mainlines and some Conservative Catholics aren't thrilled with the current state of affairs.

    That's where it's important to see beyond the culture and recognize where our foundations truly are. I consider myself one of those established folks you're referring to, and while I'm grateful for the culture I grew up in in many ways I know it's not perfect. Conversely, as I've worked on living my faith to the best of my ability it's allowed me to see others in kinder and more compassionate ways than I thought possible. Not to delve too much into politics, but I think that the individuals you're referring to mix their politics and religion a little bit too much in my opinion 

  12. 28 minutes ago, SkyRock said:

    Rod Dreher has the decline of membership as a regular topic for him in his blog at the American Conservative.  He regularly discusses about weakening churches, which directly follows liberalization.  It is a general problem and even in faiths that used to be morally strict.  A small group of activist members push for more liberalization, claiming it will stop the decline and instead it accelerates the decline. 



    I love Rod Dreher, he is hands down my favorite conservative writer 

  13. To answer the question as an active believing Latter Day Saint, I think it's obvious that there are many major societal changes that are occurring that are causing faith to be frowned on more and more. I think that these kinds of discussions also need to point out that even though our growth is slowing, there is still growth. We focus on the US and Europe but as mentioned in my previous  post, the church is growing quite a bit in Africa. I am sure folks are worried about these trends, but panicking is a pretty strong word to use. Who knows what will happen in the next few decades?

  14. A useful resource I like to look at as far as hard numbers go is this blog: http://ldschurchgrowth.blogspot.com/?m=1

    It gives good overviews of growth developments for the church. I know that it's quite a contentious debate about how much membership the church will lose or gain over the coming years, and I think you can find what fits your narrative. Like I said, this blog provides good updates. From what I've read, there seems to be growth of stakes in the intermountain west, and lots of growth in Africa. Conversely the church seems to be shrinking in California. 

  15. 14 minutes ago, bluebell said:

    I think the blessings angle is really interesting.

    Will God honor a promise of blessings for such a thing, even if He doesn't care that much what name we use otherwise (I personally think He will but that's just my opinion)?  Can someone lose out on blessings even if they aren't doing anything specifically wrong (I think so, but again, just my opinion)?

    It's interesting to contemplate how apostolic promises work especially when obedience to the prophet on something that isn't doctrine is the conduit for receiving them.

    Good question. I think the answer is yes. I forgot which talk it was (Elder Christofferson?) Where he talked about blessings coming from obedience. Of course God loves us, but I think if we're doing the things He asks we're going to see blessings because we're honoring that relationship 

  16. I enjoyed that talk by Elder Anderson for several reasons. First, I remember President Nelson giving promises for blessings in uding the name of the church, and it was interesting to hear fulfillment of that promise. Second, along with hearing about large scale blessings, I enjoyed hearing the story about the young girl in Tahiti who was firm in keeping the name of the church accurate as requested, which led to the baptism of her teacher. Finally, I'm interested to see if this will play out how Elder Anderson says it will, where he has promised more acceptance from the broader Christian community for staying true to the name. That was a pretty bold statement in my opinion!

  17. As those of you who have read along with come follow me know, we just finished reading about Christ's visit to the Americas. In reading this, I am curious if anyone more knowledgeable than myself is aware of any studies done on archeology, folklore, or other cultural contexts that would indicate some kind of evidence that Christ came to the Americas. Obviously there won't be a smoking gun, but I have heard it mentioned about beliefs of a "white bearded God" here and there, but I want to get some more concrete information. Thanks in advance

  18. To answer the op, I recently watched a series that came out on hulu called Ms. America, which was a dramatic retelling of the battle over the ERA in the seventies between the women's liberation movement and Phyllis Schlafly and the Eagle Forum. Interestingly there is a scene where she calls an operator and asks for Boyd K. Packer. Mormons are mentioned a few more times, but one that made me laugh out loud is when the leaders of feminists lament at how many mormons are in Hawaii and how it's causing major roadblocks to the passing of the ERA.

  19. 33 minutes ago, gav said:

    allow me to quote you


    Simply put: as the overall response increases in sophistication so does the attack. With less and less ground to work with the battle is more bitter 

    I do remember that now, thanks for bringing that to my attention. I think I was referring more to the Book of Mormon as I'm more familiar with the arguments for and against it, however I do feel a bit more ignorant about the Book of Abraham than I'd like to be 

  20. 7 minutes ago, gav said:

    Book of Abraham mud has been slung for over a century... With those anti the church running out of material as many early criticisms evaporate a Custer like last stand is being made by the disaffected in technical territory largely unfamiliar to the lay person. Easier to bamboozle people and undermine faith that way in this age of "unquestionable and often ungraspable science"(a least from many a lay persons perspective).

    The critics are now so vehemently clinging too and defending this last patch, that as the earth below their feet erodes, they feel it necessary to overstate their assertions and resort to personal attacks and other measures to disparage anybody that strays from their carefully constructed but ultimately unsteady narrative.

    Could you give a bit more information about what you feel has changed?

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