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Posts posted by cdowis

  1. 7 hours ago, changed said:


       What kind of a sick church does not let family members attend their child's marriage? 

    Huh??  I have no idea what you are talking about.

    It was a decision made between the Lord and the parents themselves, and the church merely respected that decision.

    I respect any organization that remains true to its obligations regardless of the trash talk it suffers for doing so  -- insensitive, sick, etc.


    • Like 1
  2. On 1/16/2019 at 1:12 PM, Navidad said:

    IAs this thread reveals, folks here seem much more comfortable attacking the other than providing insight into the blind spots of their own particular perspectives, views, or faith. Certainly the true test of insight and integrity is the ability to discover and own one's own blind spots, not those of the other. 

    You are confused. 

    Apologetics is responding to antiMormons who use misinformation and trash talking with the deliberate objective of destroying my belief in the church.  The "critic" is engaged in an open disagreement over ideas, such as we find here in this forum.

    The hate monger pushes his agenda of the destruction of the church, and I push back politely but with bluntness.

    Here is my latest example in youtube ==>>



    min 8:12 "church leaders know the  church is false"
    You claim to have a remarkable gift == reading minds. You either are able to peer into the depths of their souls with your power to read minds OR Satan has deceived you.
    Matt.18 [6] But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea




    "Mormons are crazy"
    Of course it is going to sound crazy when explained by an exMormon atheist.  Are you going to listen to a creationist explaining evolution??
    Now, THAT is crazy stupid.


  3. 4 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

    Yeah I don't know why those dang Nephites just didn't write in English. I bet they didn't even use the word "silk."

    Lot of nerve. 

    Fortunately God Himself tells us what they meant with His direct involvement. in the translation process.

  4. 21 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

    Non-Mormon anthropologists who specialize in Mesoamerica generally see strong cultural connections (diffusionary) with China and SE Asia.  Mike Coe is certainly among them.


    And the mention of silk in the Book of Mormon.

  5. On 1/14/2019 at 12:19 PM, esodije said:

    It’s been a long time since I sat through one of Dr. John’s interviews, but this one seems particularly pointless. The local church leaders won’t physically ban a doty 85-year-old alleged sexual abuser from attending church meetings? And they even let him serve in a non-calling like the Sunday School presidency? The horror! 

    I understand that someone of questionable character is not allowed even to sing in the ward choir.

  6. "Christ and Satan are brothers"

    I am saying that this is a half truth -- out 0f context of of what we actually believe. We are ALL children of God --Satan is your brother, he is my brother.  We are eternal beings, sons and daughters of our Heavenly Father.
    We lived as spirits before we were born and we will continue to live after we die. Depending on the choice we make in life, determines if you will live with God again.

    Satan made the wrong choice while in the spirit world. 


  7. 17 hours ago, edgoble123 said:

    The natural question is, even though the symbols do not *contain* what they are paired with, what is the relationship, if it is an ancient one?  Because, the idea that somehow the English paired with the Egyptian is a correct translation of the Egyptian is not a possible option.  If one tries to still find an ancient explanation for that relationship, it is not that. 

    It appears that you are very young when you speak with such ABSOLUTE certainty.

    Would it be a waste of time to suggest  reading my posts on the mnemonic theory and Tvedtnes "translation" using the GAEL.

  8. Discussion with an atheist 

    >>To have faith means to not have proof of what you believe.

    I agree with you.
    In the spiritual realm, faith is a prerequisite to knowledge. Likewise, if we are to gain an understanding (knowledge) in science, such as astronomy == we have a "faith" that our scientific instruments will give us data (proof) which then will lead to knowledge.
    I think of faith as the telescope of the spiritual realm. Refuse to look in the telescope, you will continue to believe your unaided, unenhanced eyes that the sun revolves around the earth.


    I suggest that you read Alma 32, starting with verse 17 to read more about this process of going from faith to knowledge before responding.

    • Like 1
  9. 3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

    I was reading on another board a man's statement about leaving. He was very active, many callings, TR holder etc. He had one problem, he had a closely shaven beard. Time and time again, someone in his ward said something about it and it connecting to a calling or not getting a calling. One day he didn't have a clean white shirt and wore a grayish shirt. Well someone said something about white shirts. I guess he had had it by then and walked away from the church never to return. So it's not always history that does it. I wonder what some on this thread would say to that?

    Even as a teenager, a recent convert, , I had a snappy response to someone "I am a high councilman" making a similar comment at a dance.

    "The bishop is here and will let  me know  if there is a problem."  He was silent and walked away.

    • Like 1
  10. 6 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

    I haven't followed Ben Shapiro much, I will admit that what little I've seen of him, he seems to court controversy in politics and he doesn't come across to me as a very deep or thoughtful individual, but more of a polarizing figure, essentially a younger Rush Limbaugh, but I may be incorrectly stereotyping him.  Perhaps you can share a link or two that would demonstrate the best of Ben Shapiro that I could check out to evaluate?  

    This thread is not abt him

    As for winning debates, these tactics don't seem to change minds at all.  I guess if you're attempting to win a game of some kind this could be useful, but if you want to change minds and influence people, I don't see these tactics as very effective.  

    Read my previous posts


  11. 14 hours ago, CA Steve said:

    I think both Wayment and Wilson would agree with that but would also point out that "influence" does not quite cover those instances where Smith directly copied from Clarke. According to Wilson they found 30 in the New Testament and another 15 in the OT. I think we will both have to wait until the book comes out to read their results to know how significant and extensive Smith's use of Clarke's Commentary actually was.

    Do you see that as a problem?I understand that scholars have discovered Paul's quoting  of secular authors.

  12. The individual determines the course of the discussion:

    Correct misunderstandings and factual inaccuracies, have them examine their assumptions,
    OR crush them into silence under the weight of indisputable logic and a factual narrative.  Demonstrate their total ignorance of the Bible == I quote the Bible, they quote themselves.  😎

    You might find this of interest https://www.youtube.com/user/cdowis/videos and   https://thirdhour.org/forums/topic/57532-youtube-apologetics/ 

  13. I am constantly engaged with the antis,  and found this video on Ben Shapiro very interesting.  For example, 

    "Joseph Smith was a con man."
    And you know this... how?

    "Lots of members are upset with the church."
    I am still waiting to hear your point.

    "The Bible says that......"
    You are adding words to the Bible.  You are quoting yourself.

    "Works cannot save us."
    We agree.




    • Like 1
  14. 2 hours ago, CA Steve said:

    I think the conversations about whether Abraham existed or not are fruitless.

    OK, and such a discussion belongs in another thread == e.g. was Joseph Smith a prophet.  The BASIC premise here is that he did exist but whether the BOA is an authentic record written by him.  Taking ownership of this thread, I am requesting that we stay on topic.

    • Like 1
  15. 13 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

    Those were exceedingly vague, not an example of "reproduc[ing] that background text of the BOA" as I can see it. I thought you were referring to something he worked on prior to his recent death. After all by the 90's he'd largely abandoned the mnemonic theory and was following John Gee's missing papyri theory. 

    As I mentioned.  Gee, our premier Egyptologist,, dazzled everyone with an easy fix and Tvedtnes moved onto  other things.

    Again I think there's something to be said for a mnemonic theory - particularly as one tied to the Art of Memory particularly in its Renaissance form that persisted into esoteric traditions like Masonry. It's just that as I said no one has really showed it could work thus far.

    Also I read somewhere that the Egyptians enjoyed playing games with  texts and this dual text fits very well in that tradition, a prime example of those text games.  The BOA text was  forgotten after several centuries and only the BOD and its variants remained,

    With the paradox, it now makes sense  "it is but it isn't."

    Just another crazy idea, easily dismissed.


  16. 13 hours ago, Duncan said:

     pun intended?! net flix? basketball net and flicks of the wrist shot thing

    It's not a joke if you have to explain it.  And then someone responds that they now get it.  And somebody else says it's not a joke if.......

    And THEN someone creates a thread that argues  ........  Eventually someone gets banned ....

    NOW it is funny.

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