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Posts posted by cdowis

  1. 5 hours ago, Rajah Manchou said:

    The internal Book of Mormon geography is seen as an island or a peninsula because Mormon states that the land of Nephi and the land of Zarahemla "were nearly surrounded by water, there being a small neck of land between the land northward and the land southward". (Alma 22:32) 

    It's hard to identify any place on the American continent that fits this description.

    Look at a map of mesoamerica, and make note of the  expansion to the "land northward".  For the Nephites it coulod be  considered "nearly" an island.

    I don't think the Book of Mormon mentions "the sea northward".

  2. Dan Vogel has proven that he himself is a remarkable  story teller, as he fills in the "details" of his naturalistic narrative of Joseph Smith and the production of the Book of Mormon.

    He abandons his role as a scholar and, weaving fiction with a few facts, becomes the author of a novel.  While he is known for his scholarship, his imagination often trumps his ability as a scholar.

    • Like 1
  3. 5 hours ago, Rajah Manchou said:

    There are only two options here: (1) there are two unrelated coincidental narratives of Israelites being led by God in 600 BC to an island that matches the internal geography of the Book of Mormon known as Ramah/Cumorah that was destroyed in the 5th century AD, or (2) the Book of Mormon narrative is based on narrative of Rechabites sailing to the island of Rahma/Kamara. Can you think of any other explanations for this?

    The early Nephites may have, with their limited view, seen mesoamerica as an "island", but I cannot agree to use that term with our expanded  view of their location as being  part of a continent.

    Anyway, Lehi and his family landed in the Americas.  This is my view and I'm sticking with it.   And you have given us  a plausible confirmation on my theory  on the connection regarding "Moroni" and "Cumorah".  So, option 1.

  4. On 1/31/2019 at 1:17 AM, Rajah Manchou said:

    In other words, every aspect of the Book of Mormon fits into history. .....

    These accounts are, in my opinion, extremely significant, yet completely overlooked by models that look only at the American mainland. 

    It also could fit the Ten Lost Tribes narrative.

    • Like 1
  5. 3 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

    If that is the case then we can readily say we know absolutely nothing about God.  Including how he feels on any particular subject.

     Perhaps that may apply to many of us, but that is not the case for those who have a personal relationship with Him.

    If every record of God's dealings with men is simply the suppositions of those men then we know nothing about him. 

    The experiences in the scriptures are to be taken within the context of our own experiences, scripture study  and personal revelation.  "Liken the scriptures unto ourselves."


    • Like 1
  6. On 2/6/2019 at 1:38 AM, 10THAmendment said:

    I simply cannot imagine the Savior avoiding teaching people during His ministry based on their race. 

    You need to read the Bible to revise your imagination.

    The Saviour advised He was sent only to the Ties of Israel, and both He and his disciples were to avoid teaching the Gentiles.  It was not until years later after the Rersurrection that Peter was given the vision ghat instructed to take the Gospel to the Gentiles (see the story of Cornelius).

    Many of our doubts are a result of our ignorance of the scriptures.

  7. On 2/1/2019 at 1:35 PM, Tacenda said:

    I was asked to make covenants without knowing what the covenants were but told before the session started that I could leave if I felt like I couldn't make those covenants. 

    Obviously this attitude indicates the absence of a testimony of the temple and the church, so it would indeed be wise to stand up and leave.  Not sure how someone would have gotten a temple recommend.

  8. On 1/19/2019 at 1:11 PM, Navidad said:

    Hi LittleNipper - I am not a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am an evangelical Christian within the Mennonite tradition. I would strong disagree with you that the main precept of Christianity is the TRINITY. I am not sure where you get that? 

    For me it comes from hundreds of discussions with those who say we are not Christians.  Basically if you don't believe in OUR view of  God, the God of the NIcene reed, then you are not Christian.  The acceptance of the one substance entity, the Triune, is what unites the traditional Christians.

  9. Yeah didnt know that [about the Mormons] Its the same with the jehovah's witness they only are told to read and listen to their own teachings or lack thereof.
    Sheep to the slaughter.
    Yeah, born agains are told to only read Paul and ignore James == that idiot talking about "faith without works is dead" nonsense.
    "Demons confess Christ and tremble" == can you believe it !?
    Lordy, makes you want to rip that book right out of the Bible.!
    Are they in for a shock at the judgement seat and judged by their works. 👀
    But Lord, we confessed you with our mouth!
    "So did he devils.Your mouth cannot save you."
  10. On 1/26/2019 at 12:01 PM, Navidad said:

    I would greatly appreciate some clarification. I am still a bit confused about what is considered scripture (non-canonical) and what is not.

    These are the principles which guide me ====>>>

    If the Conference Talk is grounded in scripture, then it is an expansion/ interpretation of those scriptures.  

    2 Peter 1 [20] Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
    [21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

    Otherwise it should be seriously considered as being inspired and not lightly discarded.

    As Brigham Young advised:

    What a pity it would be if we were led by one man to utter destruction! Are you afraid of this? I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not. This has been my exhortation continually.  JD IX:150.

    Some may say, "Brethren, you who lead the Church, we have all confidence in you, we are not in the least afraid but what everything will go right under your superintendence; all the business matters will be transacted right; and if brother Brigham is satisfied with it, I am." I do not wish any Latter-day Saint in this world, nor in heaven, to be satisfied with anything I do, unless the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ, the spirit of revelation, makes them satisfied.  JD III:45.

    Joseph Smith, I teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves.



  11. Quote

    According to JS, people who believe the gospel as it is written in God's word, are an abomination. Claiming the bible is unreliable is a slippery slope and a serious accusation, considering Jesus said that wouldn't happen..

    >> believe the gospel as it is written in God's word

    You are mistaken.
    The abomination is their INTERPRETATION, such as the Nicene Creed heresy which is NOT written in His Word. Satan himself quotes the Bible. Peter explains

    2 Peter 1 [20] Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. [21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man [theologians] but holy men of God [prophets] spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. According to Peter, YOU  have gone down that slippery slope.  God has restored His Gospel and called "holy men of God [prophets] spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." in our day. See also Eph 4:11-14 == called apostles and prophets as the foundation of His church.

    The Bible said it, I believe it. We are Bible believing Christians.

    >>considering Jesus said that wouldn't happen..
    2 Peter 3 [16] As also in all his [Paul,s] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

    I quote the Bible, you quote yourself.

  12. 15 hours ago, Hamilton Porter said:


    Lets give Dehlin's salary a boost, shall we?

    My suggestion, 

    1. Change name to Mormon Stories Ministry

    2. Give "Witnessing to Mormons" seminars to some of the larger churches.

    3. The donations should flow in freely  as you share your love of the Mormons, giving  stories of saving them from this evil cult..

    • Like 2
  13. 1 hour ago, SteveO said:

    Well no, but they should still probably spend more money on charity.  It’s a big concern of mine.  

    Interesting....... just a matter of curiosity, what percent of your income goes to the poor, the neglected , the homeless?

    Service hours  -- soup kitchen, hurricane cleanup?  This is certainly your concern put into action, is it not.

  14. On 1/20/2019 at 3:30 PM, Alaris said:

    Still most folks regurgitating this garbage aren't in a place to be persuaded or in a place where they can feel the spirit while receiving testimony. Better to walk away with a smile than to Ben Shapiro them. 

    The "Ben Shapiro method" goal  is to discredit the antiMormon narrative, the garbage,  for the audience

    No audience, then you are correct -- it may simply fall on deaf ears.  That is why I am present on youtube rather than an antiMormon forum.  I have received good feedback from the viewers, such as "I was wondering when you would show up".

    You may find my "blog" of interest.  https://thirdhour.org/forums/topic/57532-youtube-apologetics/

    • Like 1
  15. On 1/20/2019 at 2:07 PM, changed said:

    They belong to a different religious group, one I respect very much.  It was NOT a decision between my parents and the Lord - the Lord is no respecter of persons, and does not exclude anyone. it was the church's policy, NOT the Lord's policy, which I can clearly see now.

    Thank you for sharing your personal viewpoint and opinion with us.  I have zero  interest n arguing with you, except  respectfully to point out that we have the right to practice our religion and you have the right to disagree with us.

    Perhaps we can simply agree to disagree, which you should clearly see.


  16. >> crazy mormon beliefs

    Yessss! Kinda like when the Pharasees heard Christ say, "Tear down this temple and in three days I will build it back up." And Christ dies a terrible death, and a few days later he was visiting the apostles and eating a meal with them.

    Talking crazy == how about entangled particles communicating instantaneous across a galaxy (quantum physics) ONLY when someone is observing them. They know someone is looking at them?? 👀 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OefsPBDOcFE

  17. Mormon  indicated that the small plates had almost disappeared from the Nephite archives, implying they had a large number of records that Mormon had been using in the compilation for the Book of Mormon.

    I believe there is evidence of chunking of the narrative rather than one continuous narrative, indicating multiple records.  That would be an interesting research project.

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