Jump to content


  • Posts

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by Nathair/|\

  1. This is my heaven as described by the brilliant artist Damh the Bard.


    I thought that I’d never see,
    All the wonder and mystery,
    All around me, around me,
    Then I met the Spirit of the Stag,
    And I climbed upon his back,
    When her found me, he found me.

    And Now, I can never return,
    To the way I once had been,
    For I have been to the Land of the Young,
    Take my hand, Follow me,
    Hear our song….

    Come with me and I’ll take you away,
    To the Land of the Ever Young,
    Through the hills to the home of the Fey,
    Where the air is warmed by the Sun,
    It’s all around just listen,
    And I will take you there.
    Take you there.

    I felt the power of the sea,
    Of Manannan’s great City,
    All around me, around me,
    Then I swam deep among Apple trees,
    The tide like the gentle breeze,
    All around me, around me.

    I raise my feathered wings,
    Hear the wind and the song she sings,
    All around me, around me,
    And I know the freedom of the skies,
    Up here where the Seagull flies,
    All around me, around me.

  2. Again, I was sucked in by a non-member, almost like Eve was seduced in the garden. There was never an intention initially to discuss this issue to the extent that it now has. This is the arena of the Prophet and the Holy Spirit, not mine. I have no part in this struggle, though at times it is painful to remain silent. If you would allow me the privilege of saying I am a TBM ...

    For what it's worth, I think you're as entitled to that title as anyone, but you don't really need my support.  What really matters is your Heavenly Parents' opinion and they are completely, madly, eternally in love with you.

  3. Just because they were not consulted does not mean women were not consulted. This document is the product of great study and prayer, and is considered scripture and official doctrine. Perhaps Sister Okazaki will be surprised that the RS pres was not consulted when the Book of Mormon was translated or when the D&C was produced.

    I am sure Heavenly Mother was consulted.  I doubt very much that HF does anything She wouldn't approve of.  

  4. Very interesting, incorrect, but very interesting.  Progressive politics tends to let the woman control her own body, rather have the government control her body.  I am not sure where LDS Doctrine places women, it seems to be morphing right now -- but I rather doubt that a lot of the Sisters would agree with you that the "place" of women is primarily in the nursery and the kitchen -- so to the extent that such an exclusive "nurturing" role is being laid out for women, well that is too will pass.

    Sorry.  The underlined part is not true.  While they do give the "right" to aggress against an innocent even when not medically or psychologically necessary, they take away many of the rights inherent in being a sovereign human being, such as the right to keep what you earn and the right to defend yourself against rape.  

    Since this isn't a political forum, that's all I will say about that.  You can PM me for details.  

  5. Relationships with other humans are over-rated.  Just get a dog for companionship.  You won't put your heart and soul into a relationship with your dog for ten years only for her to get bored, find someone else on the internet and two weeks later on your birthday move across country to be with him.  

  6. The Church had a program adopted from AA which they tried to apply to people with SSA or practicing homosexuals.  They laid out that approach to the State legislative committee hearing the debates in Vermont over whether to authorize Civil Unions.  Managed to make us the laughing stock of Vermont.  You are invoking AA so I assume that you have at least some clue as to what you are talking about since the 12 Step Program is fundamental to AA.  I assumed you knew that.

     35 And the multitude of the earth was gathered together; and I beheld that they were in a large and spacious building, like unto the building which my father saw. And the angel of the Lord spake unto me again, saying: Behold the world and the wisdom thereof; yea, behold the house of Israel hath gathered together to fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

     36 And it came to pass that I saw and bear record, that the great and spacious building was the pride of the world; and it fell, and the fall thereof was exceedingly great. And the angel of the Lord spake unto me again, saying: Thus shall be the destruction of all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, that shall fight against the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

    --1 Nephi 11

  7. I can definitely place it earlier than the 1997 date mentioned above.  My stake did one in 1991 or 2.  I had a good time, but I wouldn't say it had much of an effect on my testimony.  We only did it for a four day weekend, though, not a full week like I hear about some now.  A cousin I didn't know well before then was in the same family and it was nice to get to know her better.  I didn't really get to be friends with anyone else from my "family," but I did get to know some of them well enough that I could say "hi" and call them by name at stake activities.  

  8. Ancient Order of Druids in America? Interesting. Here are some questions that popped up in my mind:


    1) You said that your order was at one time known as the Ancient Order of Masonic Druids (actually, aoda.org says it was Ancient Masonic Order of Druids), it was a very minor "sub-order" (we use "appendant body" here) of Freemasonry, and that your order broke off from Freemasonry. Does it mean that before, for someone to join your order, he must be a Freemason first?


    2) How's the relationship between the Freemasons and the Druids nowadays? Can Druids be Freemasons, and vice versa?


    3) How does someone join the Druids? What are the requirements for membership? (e.g. To be a Freemason in a lodge under the Grand Lodge of Massachusetts, you must be at least eighteen years old.) What are hindrances to membership? (e.g. An atheist cannot be a Freemason, at least in "regular Freemasonry.")


    Thanks. :D

    1. Back when we were connected, you had to be a Freemason to join.  Now, there is no longer any such requirement.  Some of our top leaders have been and are women (which is only interesting because of the historical Masonic connections.)

    2.  I can't speak for Freemasons, but the leaders of the AODA speak positively about Freemasonry and other fraternal orders.  Another of our Archdruids, Gordon Cooper, is a member of the OddFellows.

    3.  There are hundreds of different Druid organizations, each with their own membership requirements.  There are also many Druids who are not affiliated with any organization.  Usually, you have to be at least 18 and pay a small fee to cover training materials and administrative costs.  A few orders require members to have Celtic ancestry.  Some are male only or female only, but restrictions like those are not common.  I have heard of atheist Druids, but most believe in some kind of deity.  Almost all Druids love nature in some form.  

  9. I'm a member of the Ancient Order of Druids in America, which at one time was known as the Ancient Order of Masonic Druids and was a very minor sub-order of Freemasonry before we broke off.


    Yours under the fraternal oaks,

    Nathair /|\

  10. You might find the info located in this footnote helpful:




    I have the second reference, Contemporary Mormonism, and summarize the results of the study of the Indian Student Placement Services (this was LDS students placed with LDS families, not in boarding school) as indicating that 1/3 of the participants stayed in the program and graduated from high school, 82% completed high school even if they had dropped out of the program compared to 45% of the control group...meaning involvement almost doubled one's likelihood to graduate.  For participants over 25, the rate was 91% compared to 65%.  The longer they were in placement, the greater the likelihood as well.


    More participants were currently working with higher status (higher pay not statistically significant) jobs, more often in the service sector, in social work and community service jobs.  The longer in placement, the more likely employed and greater earned income.


    pages 292-309


    BTW, the program started as a result of the children's parents asking for LDS families to take in their children, not initiated by the Church.  The Utah boarding school...I think they were actually government...not church owned, though substantially run by church members, but no info on that in my book.



    Thank you, Cal.  That's just what I needed.  I suspected it was something like that.

  11. I absolutely and categorically reject any of the items in the OP as being official mistakes of the Church or of the General Authorities.  I wholeheartedly sustain the practice of polygamy in all forms it was practiced by the Bretheren.  The Books of Abraham and Moses are some of my favorite books of scripture.  

    MMM and to the limited extent it occurs, idolization of the leadership (My mom, for example, seems to think BRM's Bible Dictionary is inerrant, meaning I can't share some of the exciting stuff I've found like DCP's Nephi and his Asherah with her.) are faults of members not following the will of the Savior as taught them by His Church.


    There is however, one small matter that bugs me, probably due to my libertarian tendencies.  I'm sure if I learn more about it, it won't bother me any more.  That is the program where Native American children were taken from their homes, families and tribes and sent to boarding schools to learn to live in the manner of the dominant culture.  In other cases I know of, they didn't have a choice, and were punished severely for speaking in their own tongue or practicing any distinctive aspect of their own culture.  I once had an acquaintance from the Blackfoot nation who was sent to such a school (not run by the Church as I recall) and I remember well the pain he shared and his determination not to allow his culture to be lost.  


    There are multiple theories regarding how Faith develops.  Some of these push one to abandon the instituion's "Truth" as the end goal (Fowler).  I know Kevin here likes Perry's scheme.  I am wanting to simplify this into three phases which would compact Perry's 9 positions and Fowler's stages 3-5 but "Leading with Faith".  I am hoping to see some feed back on the following.  


    1.) For those who are struggling  - What am I missing or not describing well enough?


    2.) For those who have lost faith - Why does this model not work?


    3.) For those whose testimonies have never encountered a faith Crisis - What are your percieved weaknesses in this paradigm


    Lastly - feel free to use this as needed to help others


    Understanding Faith from the perspective of how to help one in Faith Crisis grasp how to transition to a place where one can lead with faith





    You might find this helpful:


     Many people nowadays divide up every situation into two and only two factors. This by itself isn't necessarily a problem, but very often the two factors get portrayed as absolute opposites with no common ground uniting them, and this leads to trouble. Worse trouble comes when the opposites get moral labels, as though one is completely good and the other absolute evil. Think of political and religious squabbles in recent decades and you'll find more examples than you can count, each one full of this sort of twofold thinking: those who are not with us are against us, you're either part of the solution or part of the problem, and so on endlessly.

    Back in the nineteenth century, schools of esoteric philosophy closely allied with French Druidry worked out ways to overcome this habit of twofold thinking. In these systems any division into two is called a binary, or more fully an unresolved binary. Binaries make useful tools for thinking when you need to focus on differences, but they produce a distorted picture unless they're balanced by something else. The opposite distortion comes from a unary, a view of the situation that sees only one factor, and focuses attention exclusively on equalities.

    The first number that guides thinking into balanced patterns is the number three. Divisions into three are called ternaries. Every ternary, according to this teaching, consists of two things opposed to each other, and a third that connects them together. Thinking in ternaries pays attention to differences that divide and equalities that unite. While it's not foolproof, ternary thinking thus sidesteps some common pitfalls in the way of clear understanding.

    Problems that can't be solved in binary thinking often find ready solutions once a third factor comes into play. Finding the third factor was therefore a common training exercise in some esoteric traditions. Students would be set binaries from philosophy, politics, and daily life, and asked to find the third position that resolved the binary. In this way they also learned to see how the two sides of a binary support each other, define each other, and need each other.

    Ternary thinking has limitations of its own, which can be escaped by using other numbers to think with. Every number between one and thirteen, according to some Druid systems, has its own logic and usefulness. Yet the logic of the ternary has a special meaning to the modern Druid. It helps counter the pervasive binary thinking of modern culture, and also resonates powerfully with the symbolism and teachings of the Druid Revival. There's a deeper connection still, for ternaries appear again and again in traditional Celtic myths, legends, and folklore. It's not an accident that Welsh and Irish bards assembled their lore in the form of triads, or that love triangles, triple quests, and threefold deaths provide the framework for so many Celtic tales.

    In modern industrial culture, two rather than three predominates. This may be why so many people nowadays turn to Celtic traditions to help bring their lives into harmony in a world in crisis. Ternary thinking solves problems created by too much reliance on binaries, and for this reason cultures with threefold patterns offer glimpses of a more balanced way of life to those caught in a harshly dualistic society.


  13. Nathair,


    You like Alastair MacDonald?The Sheep and Stag Remain is that one about Scotland's children who fled to foreign shores. He makes me a little proud to be one of those children in many of his songs, especially when he sings of McKenzie's men and McGilliivray's men, I can't remember which song. He has made me wonder about my great uncles and fathers.


    Rory McKenzie, aka 3DOP

    The one of his I currently have is his version of Tam Lin and Fair Janet.  He did a good job on it and I love that stuff, so I will likely buy more.  

  • Create New...