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mfbukowski

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  1. Bukowski comments will be in italics Real experience in LA: "1) it doesn't help integregation into their new country" Typically they would already be living in neighborhoods where speaking English is not necessary. One could live a lifetime without learning English : All normal needs and services available in Spanish 2) it almost never would mean the spanish speaking stake would have similar resources. Not so. Lds folks from Mexico, say, have the same requirements in Mexico as here. 3) When people move to a new country integration is impeded to the extent that newcomers can be "othered" in any way Not sure what you mean. 4) Why can't spanish speakign people be in leadership positions without making a spanish speaking Stake? Same reasons you need Stakes in English speaking areas- multiple wards next ton one area. Imagine say, a 50 square mile area occupied by folks who speak Spanish on a 24-7 basis, with the same LDS density as in English speaking areas. You would need to have have multiple Spanish wards next to other Spanish wards Perhaps you have not experienced the foreign language density as it actually exists here. And here I am speaking of Spanish folks, but of course in other areas, these comments do actually apply as well We are a world wide church, and it seems that many people want to join us in the USA. I see that as a good thing! Edit: Link to LA demographic info: Roughly half of our population is "Hispanic". I think that alone indicates we probably need Spanish language stakes and some Asian language stakes also. But if course this is raw data, not including LDS info, nor areas with higher LDS density. But of course we don't have the necessary data to take that info seriously but to me only suggests the need could be there https://datausa.io/profile/geo/los-angeles-ca#:~:text=The 5 largest ethnic groups,-Hispanic) (8.31%).
  2. But who is PRESIDING needs to at least be on a ladder, clearly.
  3. And yet we have an example of seating priorities at General Conference.... ? Honestly though, I really have no position or opinion on this. Suspending chairs from the ceiling in the proper order might be dangerous for old guys though.
  4. Yeah, I understand. Honestly it's hard for me to pack lots of philosophy into fifty words or less. Lotsa folks here write chapter length replies, and I suppose I should too. Meh. I guess I need to care more, OR pretend these replies are actual essays of import. I don't know how some folks take it so seriously. But I am old and working on stuff I consider...... very important, and tend to put more time into that. I suppose I should pick one or the other. Thanks my buddy! 👍
  5. Who wants to be on the stand in the first place? When I was a practicing bishop, I got to share ever sleepy moment, every sneeze and cough, at least one bloody nose, many runny ones, a few rolled eyes unfortunately, and at least one or two "calls of nature"due to medication with EVERYONE in the church. No sneaking out the back door for a few minutes.... biology suspended. Even when on the HC visiting a ward, I would sit among the members, and run up to the stand to give my talk. You want everyone watching you every moment? Be my guest! But wonder within yourself why you have that need. Yes I think the cause here is a worthy one, then regarding not coming to church- how is that supposed to hurt others to allow you to get your way? All you are doing is deliberately showing that coming to church is no big deal to you, that you would give it up and sleep in "just to show THEM a thing or two. It reminds me of kids not going to school to prove a point. Oh yeah- will show THEM! Sorry, I just cannot see the logic. Write letters, carry signs, wear a weird color to make a point. THAT will do more than not appearing and sleeping in, to make your argument! But just wanting to be on the stand smacks of an attitude of "OK I am important! Look at me!" Just walk up and do it if you insist! What are they going to do? Call the cops? Womensplain it please. Incidentally out here in the mission field, I have never seen a RS society presidency or other female leaders on the stand just to be there, as opposed to having to speak or etc. Nice opportunity to have a chat with my wife who is in the RS presidency- but I strongly suspect she will believe as I do. And YES she is as much of an advocate for women's rights as anyone I have heard.
  6. But it is how we create our worlds. So how can reality be wrong? 😉👍
  7. @SeekingUnderstanding I stand by what I actually said. And I justified it with a philosophical explanation for my position. Please don't put words in my mouth, it only reflects on you. The words indicate a hypothetical position: "but one would also have to believe that men and women are not "the same". And then I gave scientific evidence on numerous ways in which men and women ARE IN FACT DIFFERENT. I justified that position also religiously- citing temple differences. Then I cited a philosophical position justifying that belief, IF one takes that position. And you come back with genital size, and shape as I implied you would. Take your last word if you like, then goodbye. I won't bother you again.
  8. Read my reply. I gave you several references
  9. I do not recommend baptizing your computers.
  10. Holy cow! Sad and unbelievable! Yes, that's Utah. Here in the rest of the LDS world, I have seen nothing like that
  11. Trivial point but "being saved" a la Protestants is not really in our vocabulary. We are "saved" from the consequences of sin AND Spirit Prison (= Purgatory and "hell"= for us - is the same thing, ie: temporary states). So we are pretty much universally "saved" through the at-one-ment of Jesus. Period. Believing that is true will be universally obvious when we all see Him in his glory. We will all, except for a tiny few, accept the obvious truth that He IS God and our Savior. The "salvation" of exaltation is based on merit, it is a degree of glory ABOVE the minimal gift of overcoming death and sin. One is virtually universal, the other is a reward for merit. So we seldom use the word because it is so confusing!!
  12. Ok, my "mommie" is calling me to go see Dune. Happy wife is a happy life. Gotta go. She wants to go see Dune. Yuck. Fiction.
  13. Men can't catch Uterine Cancer. Women don't get testicular cancer. If that's all your truth provides, go for it. That's like asking if men and women use the word "red" for the same color. Radical empiricism calls for answers for which only science can prove. Look it up for yourself. Go ahead when your teen age daughter worries about masturbation, and send her to the bishop. Why not? Category error. We are speaking about spiritual matters not physical or empirical ones. And yes, I go along with the temple and believe that women beat men in being blessed against "the blood and sins of this generation" The rest is your religious beliefs, and I will only discuss it in a religious context. Gosh, I wonder what your reply may be? I already answered it. Get thee to the temple and then you can tell me. Here's a nice wikipedia or two for you: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_humans#:~:text=The most obvious differences between,breast differentiation%2C and differentiation of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_sex_differences Radical Empiricism, Britannica: The "real" consists only of actual experiences INCLUDING SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE. This is also Alma 32- that which is "sweet" is true. My Sweetheart awaits. https://www.britannica.com/topic/radical-empiricism
  14. Uno mas, as we say in LA, since the language change and all: We had a long time member pass away, the only member in his family, single man in his 60's attended church faithfully. Retired from Cal Trans, supervisor building freeways all his life. His family refused to have a "Mormon Funeral" so had a service at the funeral home, sometime after the cremation. And wearing our Sunday clothes. They were all dressed up as they would in their own churches or lack thereof. Jeans and T-shirts, fine. Work clothes for "ordinary people" fine, new overalls all clean of course; a few shirts and ties, I think no women in dresses, maybe some. Lots of folks in black everything. Lots of tears. Boy, we sure showed THEM! Sad day for Mormons, and yes, I mean MORMONS. In my opinion, not a great day for The Church of Jesus Christ . And we all sat together, with wagons circled, of course. But of course we were right and they were wrong.
  15. I gotta comment on this! LA vs SL. I actually bought a pencil that is round and white, with a brown eraser and is DESIGNED to look like a cigarette.... I love to use it at church ... https://images.app.goo.gl/aPJUa38x5mwozeBz7
  16. Hey, haven't we all! I didn't mean to make you feel that way mi amigo, I thought I was just making a semi- logical argument against another semi-logical and cohesive argument. Didn't see it as "personal"in any way. You know me, I just argue against positions, not people!
  17. Bishop I think is the only one, that is even biblical. Of course which GA has never been a bishop? But marriage is the best way I know of for better understanding of the other 50% of humanity. Incidentally that may be ONE reason for "justifiably" not allowing gay marriage, but one would also have to believe that men and women are not "the same". I cannot imagine discussing intimate details with an unmarried woman Bishop, but if she WAS married it would be easier. I know that's also THE problem women face every day, but perhaps some day "THE BISHOPRIC" might include married couples. Besides it would increase the attendance at Ward Council meetings! But who watches the babies? Perhaps restrict Bishoprics to "mature" couples? They kind of alteady are! But having been single, and having been married, I can see 'what it is like to be a woman' BETTER, - NOT PERFECTLY- to at least give some counsel to all three of those categories of men, women, and singles, as a bishop. Bats are another thing though....
  18. Good point, and I admit it. I will try to repent, wwJd... What Would Jesus Do? But even Jesus turned over a few tables of simple people just trying to make a living, though ordinarily such behavior is wrong. Ok folks, I've said my piece/peace. Toodle-loo on this one! Love y'all 👍 Even I make mistakes! I don't shine my shoes for Sacrament either! Ain't repentance great? 😉
  19. Lived in SLC for one year and was not a happy camper. I was looking for Zion, and all I saw was contention between "members" and "nonmembers", as us shown right here in this thread. "Don't let anyone think you are 'one of THOSE'." Guess what? "THOSE" are the ones you should be WANTING to see in sacrament meeting, of all races/colors, wearing jeans and tattoos, and women in pants, or skirts a little too short, or with shoulders exposed. Who was Jesus looking for? The classiest wearing their Sunday Best, and putting down those who "don't fit"? Heck yeah, I bash LDS Utahns with those attitudes. Drinking out of the wrong cup? Unbelievable.
  20. I remember serving mass, age 9 or 10, and bringing the cruets up to the altar to be consecrated and man, they were small and mixed 50/50 with water in the chalice? Not enough booze there to even get you a little buzzed! In that context it would be drastically wrong to NOT drink wine!! For LDS- NOT drinking wine there would be blasphemy ! So which you judge- drinking it or not? Just stirring the pot....
  21. Yeah, it does.... that could probably be about actually losing one's job. It just seems different to me. 🤔
  22. Reminds me of "Wake up little Susie....." from the Everly Bros.! I grew up in a culture where 100% of adults smoked and drank, and even the priest drank wine as part of "the sacrament meeting" (Mass) So yet again as usual, it's all culture clash I guess.
  23. I must admit I see more of a reason there, but still... I have actually seen people drink water from a mug! Shocking, I know... 😜
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